Canva

[clamnuts]

Nice one @Ash. Exciting times. I love the idea that Affinity is probably going to be used in schools now.

Onwards and upwards.

[Skeletor]

I'd be happy if I could delete more than one color at a time, but now with all the Canva millions in the bank, you could hire a rocket scientist.

[Chills]

10 hours ago, Ciaran77 said:

@Frozen Death Knight   

As for what I want to actually see being developed now when you have some serious capital to back up your development, then here's a list!

• Linux version, or at least make it fully compatible with Proton/Wine/whatever. Pretty sure you can afford it now!  - At Least a 10 year timescale for implementation, will be made available ONLY with a £400.00 a year subscription 'knight rider' plan, don't blame us, blame Canva

There is a whole thread on this. In the real world, it is a non-starter.  A hell of a lot of work on multiple constantly moving targets for a VERY small market.
You would never get an RoI ever.    Also, the professionals don't usually use Linux.

[MikeV]

This announcement was a shock. While Version 2 was oversold, and the recent slow pace of bug fixes and limited feature updates is concerning, I understand there was a lot of V2 under-the-hood work. Regardless, we were more than happy to pay for the Version 2 ‘all options’ package, even though we don’t (at the moment) run Windows machines and the iPad apps remain something to be explored. The value from V1 was so great that buying version two was both a V1 'thank you’ and a V2 encouragement.

The new ownership compels us to examine of our continued use of Affinity software.

Background
We are a small publishing operation creating image-rich print and multi-media ebooks, based in regional Victoria.

We used PageMaker and then the Adobe Creative Suite from its inception until it went subscription. It was not cheap software – $AU600 to $AU800 a seat with half-price updates that, particularly toward the end, were of diminishing worth. We always had the option to skip an update, over the nine years we probably skipped half – skipping more often towards the end. The Australian pricing was at times up to twice that Adobe charged in the US after allowing for the $AUD/$USD exchange rate. It was very expensive software, but as we purchased outright we could partially control the cost. When the subscription ‘model’ was introduced it effectively doubled our already high costs (again charged at much higher prices than to US users), and the moment we stopped paying we would have lost access to our files.

We limped on with CS6 for publishing and drawing while we pivoted photo processing to Apple’s Aperture – based on this being flagship software from a major corporation. This prove to be a major mistake. We also started producing multi-media ePub projects in Apple’s iBooks Author. Another mistake.

Affinity journey
As CS6 faltered, we waited impatiently for Affinity Publisher for our print-based work, taking part in the beta testing. The moment it launched we moved some projects across, even though key features were missing (compared to In-Design) and there were strange bugs. The killer aspect for us was/is the seamless integration of the three apps. This more than compensated for missing functions and ‘managing’ bugs.

When Apple abandoned Aperture we moved to Photo. The first in our string of abandoned software experiences.

For ePub we are still, just, managing to use iBooks Author but expect that ability to ‘break’ any day. We were hoping Publisher would have a robust ePub capability before that final break.

Continue or abandon
The sale is forcing us to review the place for Affinity in our workflows.

We need software longevity. It is not uncommon for us to revisit projects across a decade. We have just spent weeks updating a project from 2014 where the hundreds of photos processed in Apple’s Aperture have to be redone. So my overriding concern is: what are the odds that the Affinity apps will still be viable in 2034?

Our other requirement is perpetual licence software we can to continue to use.

Unfortunately, ‘wait and see’ isn’t a option as we are due to begin several major projects. Do we continue to pour time, effort and capital into projects based on Affinity software or do we look for alternatives now?

This is a summary of our thinking.

Adobe takeover
One of the concerns raised in this thread is the potential for Adobe to buy Canva – given the mood and direction of Australian competition regulators I think this is so unlikely that it does not figure in my calculations.

VC cash grab leading to enshitification
Two of the three Canva founders are on record as holding 18 per cent of the company each, I guess the third also holds 18 per cent – that would give the three a controlling holding. For short-term VCs an IPO allows them to cash out, so there is a path for control to remain with the founders – parties to the assurances we are receiving today – while VCs can grab their cash.

Institutional shareholders
Two of Canva’s institutional shareholders are Australian ‘industry’ superannuation funds that together manage $250 billion of investments. We have two types of super funds – the commercial ‘for profits’ run by financial institutions etc. who make profits for their owners (and generally lower returns for their member) and ‘non-profit’ – the much larger group – of ‘Industry’ funds run only to benefit their members, often union-controlled, and generally long-term ‘ethical’ investors. That Canva’s institutional shareholders are in the second group provides some comfort.

Entrepreneurs with social conscious
Australia has a small group of billionaire entrepreneurial software developers with strong public conscious. Reports suggesting the Canva founders fall into this group – the pack leader is Atlassian co-founder Mike  Cannon-Brooks, a major driver of large renewable energy projects.

Serif’s fate
A few posts have pointed out that Canva acquired Pixabay and Pexels five years ago to support their offering. Both continue to operate as they had pre-acquisition – as stand-alone organisations with previous management – while providing that support to the main Canva product. It is not a leap to see Serif treated this way as the professional offerings would not make sense being folded into the current Canva 'anyone can design' offering.

The driver for Canva is adding ‘professional’ capabilities. In buying Serif, Canva has paid a lot for that capability. Canva senior management are very astute – they have built a $26 billion business from scratch. Dismantling or compromising Affinity software is not an ‘astute’ path, while strengthening it is. And knowing that a very large part of the attraction to Affinity users is perpetual licences, why would you change this major selling point over Adobe?

However, offering AI or cloud-based services requires a subscription to cover the ongoing costs – the template for that is Luminar Neo – you can by perpetual licences with optional AI-based ‘add ons’ with a subscription.

Much of the angst in this thread is around assurances being given by people who are/will not be in a position to deliver/honour those assurances. On reflection, I think there is a reasonable chance those people will remain in positions where they can honour those assurances for several years beyond an IPO.

Our decision
Making the wrong choice – stay or go – will have a substantial financial and resource impact on our business/operation. It is not a decision to make lightly.

For the moment that decision is to delay the major projects until 2.5 is released, see if there is an improvement in bug fixes and ePub features. If so, we will tentatively begin one of our major projects on Affinity software and remain watchful until Version 3.

If not, the search for alternatives will begin.

There are paths for this to be a net positive for Affinity, and we who use the software. I really hope this is the outcome.

[Chills]

5 hours ago, Compositor K said:

I still have my old Mac (OSX version 9) with CS6 too, and the Adobe apps run when connected to the Net. Adobe did harass me for a while, but I did some looking around and found that there's some file somewhere that you can delete to keep Adobe off your back. It worked. That was several years ago, as I recall. Look into it.

I, too, have several older MACs running CS6    (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Lightroom) on a perpetual licence.  These days I only use Dreamweaver and Lightroom.  My LR is also on Windows, which it where I normally use it.

They all run fine (tempting fate)  on the Mac.  The LR on Windows occasionally gets a dialogue asking if I would still recommend it to others. The answer is a firm NO unless they fix the maps (even as a paid upgrade).  I had a very unhelpful face to face meeting with Adobe a few weeks ago, and I would not use anything (new) from Adobe again.   I will keep what I have on perpetual licences until the computers die because they are there.

As discussed elsewhere, an Affinity Lightroom-Bridge app is needed to tie the three apps together. Hopefully the Canva resources can help provide an Affinity desktop based perpetual licence, "Light-Bridge".  Not just a Lightroom app that the photographers need but a general DAM that the designers and publishers need (publishers also need the photo catalogue as well)

[pezetko]

17 minutes ago, Chills said:

Also, the professionals don't usually use Linux.

That's very limited and false pov.
E.g. majority of the large VFX business runs on Linux platforms. There is also VFX Platform initiative to unify that.

[Chills]

1 minute ago, pezetko said:

That's very limited and false pov.
E.g. majority of the large VFX business runs on Linux platforms. There is also VFX Platform initiative to unify that.

Also a lot of professional Resolve studios use Linux BUT that is only one (one current and one legacy)  Linux.  This is because Resolve was delivered on a Linux when Resolve was many $1000's per seat, and you needed at least $30,000 hardware as a dongle to use it.

However, these users are a VERY small number compared to the whole number of Resolve users (over 2 million). Had it not been for the original resolve users buying it at well over $50,000 a seat, there would not have been a Linux version.    It was a custom Linux and it came on the computer that came with Resolve.  When it got to Resolve being sub $1000 that didn't need a dongle:  They did a mac version then a windows version and some time later a Linux version that ran without needing $30,000 of hardware.

The free Linux version of Resolve only runs on one version of Linux (to a specific build and version number) It is also missing some codecs and has other restrictions.
I am not sure the VFX market is going to be large enough to support a Linux Affinity.  Also, would you swap to the Linux Affinity says you should use?   It would probalby help if they used the same Linux as BMD, as I suspect the VFX people who want a Linux affinity will also be working with Resolve users

 

[myclay]

7 minutes ago, pezetko said:

There is also VFX Platform initiative to unify that.

The official Reference Page is relevant for far more people even without them ever directly making movies.
For example software makers of 2D Applications like the Affinity Suite. Thankfully last year in August Ocio V2 support was added to the Affinity suite.
 

[Patrick Connor]

Please can linux discussions be kept to the thread on that topic

 

[myclay]

1 minute ago, Patrick Connor said:

Please can linu x discussions be kept to the thread on that topic

 

you linked to the scripting page, this one is the Linux page;

 

[Patrick Connor]

Thanks 

[SreckoM]

Quote

The free Linux version of Resolve only runs on one version of Linux (to a specific build and version number) It is also missing some codecs and has other restrictions.
I am not sure the VFX market is going to be large enough to support a Linux Affinity.  Also, would you swap to the Linux Affinity says you should use?   It would probalby help if they used the same Linux as BMD, as I suspect the VFX people who want a Linux affinity will also be working with Resolve users

This is false. I installed it and it has been used in our studio on 4 Linux variants without problems, See, some companies are doing their work to meet costumer need, other just find excuses.

[davide445]

I'm using Affinity Publisher since some years during the year for simple things, and Photo/Designer updated last year to v2 for my wife ballet school for posters/booklets, needed twice a year.

I was looking end last year about the generative AI adoption in Affinity due will ease my work, not being my primary activity but a work for a NPO organization (and to be honest just a creative activity I personally enjoy, aside my very business/technical day by day work).

Now reading about Canva acquisition I think the generative AI integration can be solved much easier in term of architecture choices (of course there will be some needed dev activity to integrate seamelessy with current UI and features), leveraging Canva existing infrastructure and services.

Point is I want to use it now, so I will start experimenting with Krita AI diffusion plugin. If this will not fulfill my needs (or Krita UX is too difficult to become used to in my limited available time) I will get back to Affinity and use the "traditional" workflow for this year event. I have a dual boot PC with Win/KDE Neon so I think will have no problem having it working in one or the other OS.

If Affinity will switch to subscription model I will accept it only if can be suspended with all the existing features working. If will be like Adobe where (if I good remember) no subscription = no access at all will switch to something else.

[Chills]

7 minutes ago, SreckoM said:

This is false. I installed it and it has been used in our studio on 4 Linux variants without problems, See, some companies are doing their work to meet costumer need, other just find excuses.

I was correct. BMD specify ONE and only ONE Linux (also the previous legacy one that is not obsolete)  if you instal it on anything else you are on your own. They don't support it.
That you got it to run on other Linux is good for you, but it is still unsupported.

[bbrother]

15 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

If this enables Serif to release smaller, more frequent updates then I'm hoping we'll soon start to see both many of the long standing features requests being delivered upon, but also an increased focus on bug fixes, UI/UX issues, and stabilization.

The release of smaller batches of updates is already taking place. And it didn't change anything in terms of quality.

Problems with redrawing text in APub | Incompatibility with linked files from lower versions | An increase in the number of crashes in the newly released beta version 2.4.2 | Guide lines disappearing |and so on and on....

The facts speak for themselves. The development and testing process is just a mess. A compilation is released to fix the bugs found in the previous one and, as a result, it breaks new things because testing is so poor. There is no indication that your hopes will be fulfilled. It simply does'nt look good.

And when it comes to the long-awaited features, how can they all be implemented in a year and what will their quality be like with such chaos? Do you really believe that? If so, good luck🤣
 

Quote

We will double down on expanding Affinity’s products through continued investment in Affinity as a standalone product suite.

No joke @Ash.🤥
First, take care of the problems with redrawing, because it's a shame that after so many years there are still problems with such a basic thing.

[Patrick Connor]

47 minutes ago, SreckoM said:

. I installed it and it has been used in our studio on 4 Linux variants without problems

And

39 minutes ago, Chills said:

BMD specify ONE and only ONE Linux

No seriously this is not the thread for this

linux replies here will be removed

 

 

[Bryan Rieger]

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

The release of smaller batches of updates is already taking place. And it didn't change anything in terms of quality.

…

The facts speak for themselves. The development and testing process is just a mess. A compilation is released to fix the bugs found in the previous one and, as a result, it breaks new things because testing is so poor. There is no indication that your hopes will be fulfilled. It simply does'nt look good.

And when it comes to the long-awaited features, how can they all be implemented in a year and what will their quality be like with such chaos?

I don't disagree with you @bbrother but I'm pretty sure that getting angry is never going to change anything.

I'd much rather be as supportive of Serif and Canva as I can as I'd like to continue to use the Affinity apps going forward—but that doesn't mean I won't be constructively critical (as I've always tried to be) of the massive list of issues and shortcomings in the apps that users have had to workaround for years. The ball is really in Serif and Canva's court right now. I already know my exit strategy (back to Adobe, I've been slowly migrating back already), and I'm willing to give them some time to make good on their promises/pledges before completely abandoning the products, company, and team that I genuinely prefer, despite all of their shortcomings.

I definitely wouldn't suggest not having a backup plan, but personally I don't have much to lose by giving them the benefit of the doubt for a little bit longer—I want them to make good on their pledges. The Affinity apps today are exactly the same as they were before the announcement (with a few onboarding tutorials added in 2.4.1), with all of their bugs and quirks, along with more than a few truly delightful features that make me not want to give up on them quite just yet.

Oh, and this acquisition has made me take a serious look at Canva, and I quite like what I see. They're not perfect (nothing is), but in all honesty I feel like they're probably the best owner/partner that Serif could have ended up with—and I'm really excited to see where this goes.

[Andy Somerfield]

2 hours ago, MikeV said:

This announcement was a shock. While Version 2 was oversold, and the recent slow pace of bug fixes and limited feature updates is concerning, I understand there was a lot of V2 under-the-hood work. Regardless, we were more than happy to pay for the Version 2 ‘all options’ package, even though we don’t (at the moment) run Windows machines and the iPad apps remain something to be explored. The value from V1 was so great that buying version two was both a V1 'thank you’ and a V2 encouragement.

The new ownership compels us to examine of our continued use of Affinity software.

Background
We are a small publishing operation creating image-rich print and multi-media ebooks, based in regional Victoria.

We used PageMaker and then the Adobe Creative Suite from its inception until it went subscription. It was not cheap software – $AU600 to $AU800 a seat with half-price updates that, particularly toward the end, were of diminishing worth. We always had the option to skip an update, over the nine years we probably skipped half – skipping more often towards the end. The Australian pricing was at times up to twice that Adobe charged in the US after allowing for the $AUD/$USD exchange rate. It was very expensive software, but as we purchased outright we could partially control the cost. When the subscription ‘model’ was introduced it effectively doubled our already high costs (again charged at much higher prices than to US users), and the moment we stopped paying we would have lost access to our files.

We limped on with CS6 for publishing and drawing while we pivoted photo processing to Apple’s Aperture – based on this being flagship software from a major corporation. This prove to be a major mistake. We also started producing multi-media ePub projects in Apple’s iBooks Author. Another mistake.

Affinity journey
As CS6 faltered, we waited impatiently for Affinity Publisher for our print-based work, taking part in the beta testing. The moment it launched we moved some projects across, even though key features were missing (compared to In-Design) and there were strange bugs. The killer aspect for us was/is the seamless integration of the three apps. This more than compensated for missing functions and ‘managing’ bugs.

When Apple abandoned Aperture we moved to Photo. The first in our string of abandoned software experiences.

For ePub we are still, just, managing to use iBooks Author but expect that ability to ‘break’ any day. We were hoping Publisher would have a robust ePub capability before that final break.

Continue or abandon
The sale is forcing us to review the place for Affinity in our workflows.

We need software longevity. It is not uncommon for us to revisit projects across a decade. We have just spent weeks updating a project from 2014 where the hundreds of photos processed in Apple’s Aperture have to be redone. So my overriding concern is: what are the odds that the Affinity apps will still be viable in 2034?

Our other requirement is perpetual licence software we can to continue to use.

Unfortunately, ‘wait and see’ isn’t a option as we are due to begin several major projects. Do we continue to pour time, effort and capital into projects based on Affinity software or do we look for alternatives now?

This is a summary of our thinking.

Adobe takeover
One of the concerns raised in this thread is the potential for Adobe to buy Canva – given the mood and direction of Australian competition regulators I think this is so unlikely that it does not figure in my calculations.

VC cash grab leading to enshitification
Two of the three Canva founders are on record as holding 18 per cent of the company each, I guess the third also holds 18 per cent – that would give the three a controlling holding. For short-term VCs an IPO allows them to cash out, so there is a path for control to remain with the founders – parties to the assurances we are receiving today – while VCs can grab their cash.

Institutional shareholders
Two of Canva’s institutional shareholders are Australian ‘industry’ superannuation funds that together manage $250 billion of investments. We have two types of super funds – the commercial ‘for profits’ run by financial institutions etc. who make profits for their owners (and generally lower returns for their member) and ‘non-profit’ – the much larger group – of ‘Industry’ funds run only to benefit their members, often union-controlled, and generally long-term ‘ethical’ investors. That Canva’s institutional shareholders are in the second group provides some comfort.

Entrepreneurs with social conscious
Australia has a small group of billionaire entrepreneurial software developers with strong public conscious. Reports suggesting the Canva founders fall into this group – the pack leader is Atlassian co-founder Mike  Cannon-Brooks, a major driver of large renewable energy projects.

Serif’s fate
A few posts have pointed out that Canva acquired Pixabay and Pexels five years ago to support their offering. Both continue to operate as they had pre-acquisition – as stand-alone organisations with previous management – while providing that support to the main Canva product. It is not a leap to see Serif treated this way as the professional offerings would not make sense being folded into the current Canva 'anyone can design' offering.

The driver for Canva is adding ‘professional’ capabilities. In buying Serif, Canva has paid a lot for that capability. Canva senior management are very astute – they have built a $26 billion business from scratch. Dismantling or compromising Affinity software is not an ‘astute’ path, while strengthening it is. And knowing that a very large part of the attraction to Affinity users is perpetual licences, why would you change this major selling point over Adobe?

However, offering AI or cloud-based services requires a subscription to cover the ongoing costs – the template for that is Luminar Neo – you can by perpetual licences with optional AI-based ‘add ons’ with a subscription.

Much of the angst in this thread is around assurances being given by people who are/will not be in a position to deliver/honour those assurances. On reflection, I think there is a reasonable chance those people will remain in positions where they can honour those assurances for several years beyond an IPO.

Our decision
Making the wrong choice – stay or go – will have a substantial financial and resource impact on our business/operation. It is not a decision to make lightly.

For the moment that decision is to delay the major projects until 2.5 is released, see if there is an improvement in bug fixes and ePub features. If so, we will tentatively begin one of our major projects on Affinity software and remain watchful until Version 3.

If not, the search for alternatives will begin.

There are paths for this to be a net positive for Affinity, and we who use the software. I really hope this is the outcome.

This is the most balanced take I've seen in this thread - thanks 👍

[Rodi]

11 hours ago, SallijaneG said:

 Bleak but entirely plausible future.  I think back to Aldus PageMaker being bought by Adobe. . . .
I see that QuarkXPress is still out there, way more expensive, but perpetual license is possible—I paid that much in the old days before InDesign became part of a “Creative Suite”—of course, I was not retired and doing mostly pro-bono and personal work then. . . .

Coming from a typesetting background then early to semi mature dtp, Quark was great, much better than other offerings. It was stable, it trapped where you could do it one of several ways. V 3.xx was great.
Quark had a dominance issue. Adobe was barely competing with em, they came up with CS so people who barely needed it would buy CS over AI and PS alone, this allowed them to say we are gaining and growing. Quark should have wrangled Freehand, but they did all stupid things, their license was hard. etc etc. The last version of Quark I tried was a joke. But I bet they have Pantone colors!

[SreckoM]

I doubt anyone will decide at this exact moment. I am sure I am good with Affinity for couple of years. What future will bring nobody really knows. I do not trust promises cause I heard many in past, and things went opposite way. Did not witness that promises were kept, yet. Might be different with Affinity. Hope is there.

[Bit Disappointed]

A fundamental theme in life is that events can change circumstances we otherwise take for granted from one day to the next. The best thing one can do is to be prepared and not to be unnecessarily dependent. Therefore, any dependence we must live with should be based on trust or written agreements. One must be more than naive to believe in mercy and eternal stability within (and outside of) market forces, but here are some fundamental points you can monitor Affinity's development and much else in life by.

Trust between two parties, A and B, where A is dependent on B, rests on several critical foundations. Theoretically, the most essential are:

• Reliability: A must be able to trust that B will fulfill their obligations and act as agreed. This includes consistency in actions over time.
• Honesty: B must be truthful in their communications and actions. This means that B must be transparent about intentions, capabilities, and limitations.
• Competence: A must believe that B has the necessary skills and abilities to meet A's needs or expectations.
• Goodwill: A must feel that B has A's interests at heart and will act in A's favor, even in situations where it is not specifically agreed upon or expected.
• Ethics: B must demonstrate behavior that is in line with moral and ethical standards, implying fairness and respect for A's rights and dignity.

These foundations are interrelated and reinforce each other. A lack of one can undermine the overall trust between A and B.

As you can see, I think Serif excels in several of the points mentioned above, but there are also a couple where it falls short. Let's see if Canva can assist there on the more mechanical points. And will also tomorrow and in 5 years.

But... it's your responsibility to assess that, and choose products based on what you judge in relation to your own production, income in terms of risks. Personally, I don't think price will be the biggest issue; I'm more concerned about form or, in the worst case, continued existence for the products. And there, I can't trust pledges and words more than 25 - 50%. I'm starting to look more broadly at vector tools as of 2024.

[NewInBoston]

4 hours ago, MikeV said:

So my overriding concern is: what are the odds that the Affinity apps will still be viable in 2034?

Now that Canva bought it? Probably higher than pre-acquisition. There is nothing on the market right now that exudes longevity, and who also aren't at risk of being folded by Adobe.

 

 

 

[Frozen Death Knight]

@Andy Somerfield Oh, cool, you're back! Glad to see!

[monzo]

1 hour ago, Rodi said:

Coming from a typesetting background then early to semi mature dtp, Quark was great, much better than other offerings. It was stable, it trapped where you could do it one of several ways. V 3.xx was great.
Quark had a dominance issue. Adobe was barely competing with em, they came up with CS so people who barely needed it would buy CS over AI and PS alone, this allowed them to say we are gaining and growing. Quark should have wrangled Freehand, but they did all stupid things, their license was hard. etc etc. The last version of Quark I tried was a joke. But I bet they have Pantone colors!

I lived and breathed Quark for years, my muscle memory for that was the most developed for any other software I’ve used! I remember though when my boss bought a new version (nearly a grand, I think it cost) and try as we might, we couldn’t get it to install, even with hours of support from their staff. In the end they said they’d turn a blind-eye to us using a cracked version, but we stuck with our old one. Then about a year later it came out free - on a computer mag cover disk!

Publisher isn’t even close, for me, but I use it to create basic documentation for clients.

The latest update from Ash has reassured me a bit, but it’d be naive to expect Canva not to capitalise on their investment eventually, and make subscriptions for those of us that want to use it professionally as the most viable option.

Not for me though, I don’t do subscriptions if I can help it. I’m banking on 6 months, maybe a year of decent use from the V2 suite I bought 3 months ago, anything after that is a bonus. If the pledges stick, I’ll stay with Affinity.

[lphilpot]

6 hours ago, Alfred said:

That sounds like a concise description of Quick Mask mode.

It doesn't work for layer masks and it creates a selection. What we need is a way to see the pixel layer while editing the mask (i.e., after Alt+click on Windows). It's been a while, but IIRC PS (used to?) shows a mask as a translucent red overlay through which you see the pixel layer. E.g., red == black and as you apply white it goes transparent and the pixel data becomes visible through it. Quick Mask mode initially looks like that but nothing shows through and a selection is created (which is unneeded).