SrPx

There indeed lies the major problem in this whole thing. I think I spoke about it earlier. You can be easily amazed about the vast quantity, and quality of all sort of developments , libraries and etc for network, scientific, database, security, etc in the Linux community, on its ecosystem. I mean, that kind of power, that complexity, perfection, attention to almost every sub field in those areas...the love to detail in many of those apps, IDEs, network utilities, etc, etc..!!... makes you realize they DO have enough programmers, and extremely talented. Now, apart from the holy three in 2D (Gimp, Inkscape, Scribus...and yeah, some more, but am talking this kind of stuff) , there's Blender, and some more in 3D. I'm speaking in all these areas about OPEN SOURCE development, as, they don't need for example in those other areas, network, systems, scientific, etc, really to be all the time porting versions of apps from Windows or Mac. Theirs are often even better than the closed source commercial ones. The comparison is even cruel. Between the effort, resources, events, money, and people's volunteer time, and code in the other areas, specially system, network, and what is dedicated to graphics production software at more than a hobbyist level. Again, not talking about if some company of closed source nature decides to graciously divert some resource to port one of their commercial apps to linux. Not talking about charity, but the fact of how they DO have capable people inside the community to produce graphic software that could beat any commercial grade solution, and beyond. It is my suspect that simply, Linux community has an EXTREME minority of people REALLY interested in commercial grade graphics production. Look, I've had a majority of Linux users among the people I used to go out with (and a bit later, also the people I worked with at an intensive/stressful company, that meant spending most of my time among Linux people) life was strange, and... NOT A SINGLE ONE could do a simple graphic. They'd require my help in that even for the silliest thing you could imagine. Heck, they still do!. And they came from quite different jobs and areas, they were simply gathered by a pair of friends of mine. This is the root of the issue, in my opinion. You don't have to look for external factors, neither blame a third party which produces since always Windows (ie, Serif's legacy line) and Mac software. It's inside, both the problem and the solution. I am absolutely positive that all those brains and expertise, or heck, a 10% of it, would put together more than one Photoshop killer. If they really wanted to. So, no egg or chicken dilema, more of a wake up to the internal reality, and start to pull some strings from inside... There's already Blender, and Krita, as extremely good examples of what can be done with just a few decided programmers. (Krita's case is a really tiny group). Can you imagine 2D apps made with the quality and level of completion of, let's say, current Thunderbird ? I mean, I've seen entire staffs using that as the main thing for all inside a company. Or firefox, or etc... I'd said before that Libre Office does not get well with my friends and family... but as someone has pointed out, graphic artists and any professional has a bit of (not always, you'd be amazed... some super experts in PS I know, get stuck with zipping a file or if you tell them to PASTE a line in a term window (console in windows)) higher stamina when issues or bad UIs make appearance. So, even something at the level of Libre Office would make a world of difference in graphics production. (maybe Blender is kind of comparable, here). But not only is not there even a decent small % of interest in going that route, it's way worse: The current few apps in that line, get even worse press from inside, the community, than from the expected "enemy", the other platforms. Which always shocks me to a great extent.

For me it is. If We had ALL (not just Affinity suite, lol....) what we have on Windows, in Linux, I'd have zero probs in moving. One of the biggest issues is the market standards. You go to a job interview, and they don't want you to handle Davinci Resolve, Fusion. They don't care if you are an ace with Scribus. They want you to master in and out InDesign.They want you to be an absolute expert with Premiere and After Effects. In freelancing, there's more room. But again, you are constantly facing the wall. You get into projects where other freelancer or company intervened, made part of the job, or provided files to start from. And they'll be industry standard native files. Often not something u can open 1:1 in non industry standard apps. Being very often a critical issue. A show stopper.

I'd be to believe that the issue runs deeper than that. I have tried my entire family (and several friends) to use Linux, believe it or not. NONE are graphic artists. Even more, they don't even make anything graphic, at all (u know, they could make the eventual meme, a family photo edit... not even that). They dislike the other apps available for specific (non graphic) professional area , or just regular office work (and yeah, I do love Libre Office, is what I have installed (windows version), solely...But they definitely don't love it) , they dislike (their words were often WAY stronger) also that they find the OS much harder to use than Windows and Mac. I'm repeating what they tell/have told me, trust me. And that counting on that I made step by step tuts with them, teaching how to use things. It doesn't matter, once they're alone with it, they find some obstacle that they remember they had it solved easily in Windows (or Mac) and end of story. Next phone call is for me to come to their house, have some coffee with biscuits, but pretty plueaze, remove that Mint, Ubuntu, whatever, and re-install their Windows. Am tired of doing that. I lately was only doing it for avoiding them the 140 bucks expense. Not even having that motivation, either. If I'd "hate" Linux, I'd push hard in them not even having the thought of trying and using Linux. I mean, would I have ever installed one single distro. And I have NO ISSUES with Linux, I need to say. I think even the distros of 10 years ago were already very easy to handle, let alone today's. But one thing is the geek, other the average jane and joe.

Oh, I didn't know. Well, that's one instance.... I have not used the term. Nor anything similar.

Nobody is doing that.... I'd be harassing myself, lol.... (okay, that sounded reaaally weird) Who did that ? Seriously, I want to know... I could be called more of a linux zealot myself, as I do believe that they ( the other linux users showing up in these threads) should be (instead of , er, harassing a commercial company that produces ONLY closed code apps. To my knowledge) defending (as I do) more pure community open source software like the great Gimp, Scribus and Inkscape. And nope, this is not sarcasm (I'm a one-neuron kind of guy, can't afford sarcasm. Seriously, I'm probably the only one here liking those...). Simply, I believe Linux is MORE than just an escape from Windows (and Mac? why they always say just "from Windows"?)... We'd be missing its main spirit, and to me, personally, that'd be terribly sad. As I did believed once in what Linux is trying to do (still do, in certain way...But not sure if they have lost their track a bit) I accept them. Fully. I agree with parts of them, even (I believe more than the vast majority of the Windows/Mac users). But "some" linux users need to be ready for debate, not for just posts praising their line of thought. A forum is a place for debate, not only for promotion fo something in one single direction.... Not agreeing with you, arguing, is not "harassing". Calling a debate like that is an attempt of censorship... and that is... UGLY, to say the least. Goes in both ways. I like to hear what you have to say. Trying to shut down other opinions like I'm sensing from the Linux side.. not cool.. (and wont happen, btw). And I wouldn't be so sad/angry about here happening a debate. It helps keeping alive a thread that the staff could have very well chosen to close. They did not, despite that is the habit in other vendors when it is about a company statement and they don't move from their position. You would get waaay less bumps of the issue/matter if you would be able to effectively censorship us, as a bunch seems to be willing to. Oh....! @mvlad Then it was your statement who had sarcasm in it ? Man, Spanish is so much easier to detect these things..... Indeed ! We all are. Until further notice. I am finding more instances of some of the linux users telling the other side to shut up... No one (other than moderators, staff) should go in that direction... IMO. Er...not my mission, I always want a healthy debate. In this, or other matters. Er...nope... at all. That'd be an extremely difficult task to achieve, btw. In a more serious note. I'd LOVE that a Linux version painted a bit better financially. Indeed. I just don't see how. Till date, (one of the so many reasons (another is, just for fun) I don't want this thread closed) I have not seen any solid strategy (not in implementation and code -altho they don't know the code base, anyway- , or, ahem, just the installer. But commercially. Based on income reasons.) with solid numbers to REALLY be somewhat effective in changing Serif's mind. And... I even think I'd be able to at least try to think of some !. But I have not lost my hope of something like that showing up. THAT would be a credible way. If someone has amazingly good contacts to make a certain set of meetings happen, etc. And had the confidence (sometimes translates as mountains of money, not some coins, like 500k) to convince whatever the investors or group that could be behind Serif (or the company itself). And I mean... Is not impossible ! We've seen things happening in one direction or another. No alliance surprises me anymore, in tech. If you'd speak in that line, I'd have more ears.... (nah, more than 2 is not aesthetic). I'll keep making this FAQ post, answering your questions, that you seem to ask to the audience... Absolutely not. iPad versions were done, had great success (mainly as they're greatly made, even if don't have an iPad Pro, just can sense it in YT videos, the touch gestures, etc) , and still, the desktop (I can only speak for the Windows version, would like to have a Mac machine) apps, specially the current customer betas, absolutely rock, at least in my experience. Plus, again, to make someone "afraid" of anything, tends to require a royal lot more than forum posts... Do you really think it worries us ? I can only speak for me, but... really, not the case. I'm worried about a client telling me that the print company needs all remade now in a new size and format, and that's a ton of work... no room to worry about a forum post, lol... For once and all... A bunch of us trying to get a realistic (specially in the ways to get the sustained (not a one-off) income they need for the project. You need to move away from the KS campaign as the sole solution, or we'll be stuck for ever) discourse here, would LOVE a linux version. Even the mention of threat here is funny, or just ... a bit out of place, sorry. (the real censorship attempt strikes again) Oh, do you really want us to do so ? We can do that. Then it'd get the eventual bumps like other people wanting their particular feature implemented (dxf, tga, arrow heads (already in beta), better raw editing (already improvements in a beta), raster auto tracing, etc.... ). I guarantee that's a TON less of visibility (and traffic, post views, and "weight", and...) than what you are getting now. But hey, what do I know, I only worked with marketing departments for some decades. And yep, not wanting any interaction, just religious praise (btw, religious is not a bad adjective or term... fanatic or fanaticism is) is a bit "fanatic" itself. But rights-wise, we have the same rights than you to post, sorry. We're saying a lot more than that. Well, I am. And about repetition... *cough*. Untrue. Nobody stops you from saying anything. You want SILENCE, censorship on the other side... Admit it, we'd be clear on what are we really talking about.... The problem I see with the 500k number is: Besides I don't know if that would really cope with the needed investment (not just coders, is all... licenses, marketing, etc. Many expenses involved. I've worked at CLOSED source software developers (btw, many years at an open source related one, too), and...it's always really bigger numbers. That only sounds big for a bedroom coder kind of project...), is that... is not laid any plan to demonstrate it'd gain more money than same effort, resources and personal put to work in say, the Windows, Mac OS and iOS platform. Specially when their plate of work is already pretty full.... You think I'm "harassing" you. Besides I'd never do that (leaving aside that I have zero motivation for it) I indeed am very curious for any serious proposal / idea in that line. (money, income. A plan.).

Oh... language barrier or lonely neuron (my issues, I mean).

Er.... please allow me to strongly doubt that, having even talked to some members by PM. Is not in the way/style of going of this company, by any means. At least in what is reflected in so many of its actions, motto, care, etc. (they've got 30 years of history, have never been a sell out, as the products have always stood by themselves (quality, ease of use, availability of old versions in mag covers, empathy, price).

Old school linux ppl of my generation -me included- used to have several machines at home... Right now I don't, had to sell it to help certain friend. I mean, when you have two machines, is not that big of an issue, as the other one has the other OS, or, as is not the main machine, so to speak, well, wont interrupt the flow even if was doing sth in the background in a Windows....Indeed, in my last stage of having several machines and OSes, that's what I'd typically do... only dual boot the machine less used, not the main one. During earlier years, the second machine only would have linux, several distros. So, no rebooting needed. But yeah, not everyone has the cash, or the space... Although as linux used to require less machine, it was often the case of just using the less recent machine with some distro, use Windows with the modern one (mostly as Windows would go much slower back in the day in old computers. Today maybe it is that I know too many optimization tricks)

Actually, a bunch of those not seeing a linux version as a good idea are Mac users... Shouldn't obsess so much about particularly Windows... I have not seen "fierce" anything around here, tho, in any of the sides... I mean, I've seen "fierce", in my (RL) life. Let us not exaggerate.... About windows users not caring (am a hybrid OSes user, tho), yup, trust me on that: some of us do not really care. But are allowed to ask questions or take part in a conversation (in other forums the last word (quite solid) of the staff would have closed the threads, so, I don't know why some users (often license owners) can't give an opinion while the other party can/is allowed....). I insist that I would like to see a Linux version (not like in as "hoping for it", or "needing it". But as not seeing it as a bad thing) . I just don't see it likely to happen. That someone points out the difficulties and/or reminds the staff statements about it shouldn't be so much (er, "fiercely"?) attacked... (and is not repetition: If someone provides a new idea, twist (and often, repeats the same petition), others can reply to that. It's a forum. You should expect conversation...IMO. ) PD : You probably will never believe it, but I, a current Windows user (and more expert in Linux than a bunch of pasional linux defenders here), am kind of sad that the Wine possibility is currently not working.

From friends and stuff ( I don't typically need that) I hear a lot are using shutterstock and istockphoto. I believe istock used to be the most cured, in quality, of the bunch. Dunno now, tho. I kind of consider both. Or just two providing what those do : One with a massive archive (shutterstock, if I'm not wrong, but haven't used it as a... user), with gives you the so much needed variety when doing a design, then other with highly vetted quality. I went through their (istockphoto) quality tests some years ago ( again, maybe it's a lot more relaxed, now...dunno), as a submitter (vector illustration, only) as the company I worked at told me to do that.... And....maybe they have relaxed it a bit, and tho I passed ( I carefully went through a ton of requirements... felt like work, lol, I'm required to roll so in any case), man, were them strict and had a very artistic/sharp eye... Is not just specs... at least, the staff I could deal with back then, those folks did know about art creation, composition, color, etc.

Is there any source (link) for that ? I mean, no offense, I might have been living in a cave (kind of, indeed....) but is the first time I hear that... I had always heard it was all about numbers (sells).

Yup, I believe they quite much scan a lot of stuff, petitions and feedback. So, maybe a thing to consider is , even if there are no staff replies, most surely it (your particular issue/s) is heard, and considered / studied in the sense of what can be done there in relation (if it is possible/easy to do and integrate) with their current development and code. Eventually sometimes implement a solution, after x months, or etc. Actually have seen that happening a lot. (it's kind of a pattern, I saw this happening in Blender communities and development) No idea about if the posts had any influence, though (surely YEP), and/or just observing the pro market needs and their own usage leads them to this. Or a mixed situation. But several of the lacks I saw (whether I posted about them or not) in the A. Photo and Designer first betas, have been corrected, improved, added features... Some are absolutely genius and are not so easy to discover.... PD: I happily see pro focus in both Adobe and Serif, currently... Might just be me (but am a pro! ) . I love both suites, btw (just not the "purchase" options in one of them). Heck, I also love Corel...

...that said, I completely realize now that was a too long text. And... absolutely useless, given its effect. Shall I keep it to one-line posts (or none at all )

Oki, completely fine. It was mostly advice... Is one of the reasons (this kind of reaction) why I post quite less, lately.... Cheers,

Well, that might explain some things... Graphics are my main job since '95, and I do put all my efforts to get the best (this includes comfortable) set of tools. I would disagree here, as I believe is more of a psychological barrier, or one that our brain (the lizard brain) sets due to its resistance to change and adaptation. And... that is not good. Not even for a hobby. Besides, if only that would be true, that the main suite (in 2D, 3D, gis, VFX, whatever, is sth that can be applied to other fields) does have you covered in every possible use, and that is really more comfortable, and not simply just all conditioned by the habits you have, that would be super cool. But imo, is not really different or better (imo it'd be the opposite, but is hard to convince anyone about this...unless they've done it) than having polished the use and selection of tools to get you your best possible workflow. Yep, takes extra work, but IMO, works way, way better in the long run. For a hobby, too. Yup, a suite is usually thought for better integration and yadda yadda, but I have plenty of cases with Autodesk tools (by using other alternatives, for example) and even with Adobe's, the latest one very recently, where Affinity Publisher beta (!) even saved the day when an expert with InDesign I worked with was stuck ( and solved by the non-expert in publishing(me) with a beta alternative...lol ). It simply has a feature more, and for that, you needed a somewhat more convoluted workflow in Adobe, that this person (very experienced with InDesign) did not know how to perform (as it had not that feature/capability directly in the editing app) because, INDEED, out of her comfort area, was a bit lost. This is why comfort zones are not always that good or desirable. I could always UV Map in 3DS Max, at work, quite some years ago, it was the less resistance path, indeed, as the brain resistance has many faces... the bosses would not trust a solution which is not in the standard suite. IMO, that was very, very short sighted. Happily, I proved them wrong, every single time with this and other apps.(trust me, I'd have been fired, if not ! Those weren't places to play games, if you forgive the pun (er, were game developer studios... and other software companies, mostly)), which was often not tools fully replacing the entire suite, sometimes not even an entire app, but a work task... But doing specific tasks much, much better, and easier. By those years, Ultimate Unwrap was outstandingly better than the UVW unwrap window in Max for unwrapping. Which was a so crucial task to do in game production. Examples like that, there are in the hundreds. Yes, it takes a bit of research, but often is work half done, as is reported by expert users, so you can start from there. (ie, here a lot of people give advice about really good DAM alternatives). In the actual forum post (or blog article, video review, etc), each time, you can easily see if the person is an advanced user, or someone more casual who installed it for a first time and just liked the GUI colors. They will follow their plans, but also do things as possible. IMO, developing tools is like mentioned by someone, something quite organic : You find obstacles and surprises on the way, judging my years working besides programmers doing exactly this kind of thing. Is not exactly easy (or possible) to establish a fixed date, or know if the business is going to allow to allocate enough time for some particular line, specially as events, investment, competition, the entire market and ecosystem changes/evolves. No one is speaking for a brand. At least my posts are about common sense and using to the best possible capabilities anything (indeed, I am sure they don't love that I so often mention and even link alternatives...Other vendors do literally forgive this practice in their forums...) you have in hand (not just Serif's). But not sure if the opposite isn't the case as well. Sometimes a few posts look like speaking against a brand. If they have no time and resources to pull all what they wished, in an initial moment, then is like beating a dead horse. Very specially in this case, as a DAM is sth they have stated they would like to have ! Is not like when people ask for an animation program. They there clearly state they have no future plans on doing anything like that. So, my take is... if they have not finished it, is because they are indeed polishing the core apps, the main functionality : The tools that allow creation, which are not fully complete yet. Plus...I do believe they ARE (or have been, quite) working on a DAM. I believe it could be the case that if it is very pre-alpha work, posting it would bring just a ton of overhead, complaining threads of people not understanding what is an alpha or pre-alpha, and in the end, just adding a lot of distraction work over the pile. Or, just mentioning some advances, would be taken as written-in-stone promises, lol. Also, I don't think we have a right to know how they work internally, or when do they stop to have coffee, pickup the kids from school, etc. I mean, that's an exaggeration, of course, but what I mean is, they produce software, they sell you the released one, not the beta. A lot of brands wont give you so any beta (which here you get once being a customer of that app). That's a gift, imo. I don't defend a brand per se. I will always defend those things that a brand does BETTER than the competition, though, that's for sure. There's a point where you can't keep expecting the vendor will solve everything for you. Any particular vendor. Not even Adobe !. I saw this while working at very crazy, fast, over pressured environments, often in software development companies and media agencies. You need to solve the issue, not... "WAIT". Hobbyists would be happy to discover that is the best path for them, too. So, you do whatever is needed. You find the tool, and put to good use. (and if my other option was only to stick to CS6, heck, yeah, I'd be really busy doing that already...sooner or later the app can get even not possible to run in an OS, as is a total dead end, no updates) I mean, this seems hard (it is), but in the long run, is a so, so much better habit to have, than wait sth to be as what your preference is (IMO, it indeed could NEVER be the case. So one must take a more active attitude, solve the problem vs waiting it to be solved. ). I dunno, am too much of a person of action, more than for waiting things to eventually happen. Besides, IMO, is a more satisfying take....