Footnotes/Endnotes

[Ralph]

6 hours ago, fde101 said:

 it seems to have run its course.

Agreed.

[J@HWC]

1 hour ago, PaulEC said:

 I can't wait to find out what the next missing feature will be, that people bang on about endlessly,...

Oh geez, no need for such obnoxious/negative/etc. comments.  For many of us, myself included, it REALLY is JUST this one missing feature that makes this software unusable.  We also don't need the even more BS comments saying we should've known this feature wasn't included before we purchased it.  It was presented as an alternative to Adobe.  Just not having 20+ years of prior versions to be compatible with alone would keep it far less bloated.  Many of us aren't long time users of professional level publishing software and aren't aware this feature isn't always included.  Footnotes/endnotes of been in word-processing programs I've used going back 30 years, back when the entire HD was 100 mb or less.  Never occurred to me it wouldn't be in this.

[Jowday]

Just let the discussion continue for Pete's sake - without policing. There is no need to re-visit the thread if you don't find it valuable anymore. 

It is 30 year ago I learned how to filter out anger in feedback from customers in a professional context. I know for sure Serif can too. It is feedback no matter what you think of it.

I imagine Serif would hate the silence from customers who left.

 

[Beppe]

4 minutes ago, Jowday said:

I imagine Serif would hate the silence from customers who left.

We are still here. Come on, Serif!1

1. Please!

[garrettm30]

I'm caught between these two contradictory opinions, as they both seem right to me in some way:

12 hours ago, fde101 said:

Does anyone actually have any new material to contribute that is on-topic?

If not, I recommend the thread be locked, as it seems to have run its course.

 

4 hours ago, Jowday said:

Just let the discussion continue for Pete's sake - without policing. There is no need to re-visit the thread if you don't find it valuable anymore. 

It is 30 year ago I learned how to filter out anger in feedback from customers in a professional context. I know for sure Serif can too. It is feedback no matter what you think of it.

I imagine Serif would hate the silence from customers who left.

 

I do think if the thread were to be closed as is, it would suggest to many that Serif is not interested in this feature and that they want to shut off any further discussion. Of course that is not true, as we who have been through this thread for a long time can tell from the bits and pieces that Serif reps have told us. My point, however, is that the many people who are new or generally less engaged in the forum may not have come across those posts yet (in fact, many recent posts in this thread seem to indicate that to be the case).

To avoid that, if this thread is to locked, I would recommend to Serif to make some kind of comment as a last post that Serif has definite plans to add footnotes in the not too distant future, or even that they have already begun work on it—if indeed that is the case (as I have assumed from some of the comments I have read). Even if the thread is not closed, it would be helpful to have Serif post one of a pinned posts (accepted answer?) that is at the top of every page of the thread so that newcomers won't have to dig past all the repetition to find an actual answer. I feel like there was one until recenty, but it is quite possible that I remember that happening on a different post, such as data merge.

[Pedrober]

I hope that footnotes/endonotes support will be ready soon. Let me remind you that InDesign only added footnotes support in its 2.0 version.

[Pedrober]

Obviously, footnotes support must be together with their support in IDML import.

[cyberlizard]

there seems to be an oddly prevailing opinion such as SoftwareItem X did not have a certain feature until it reached its 10th incarnation.  Can you imagine if manufacturers of cars adopted a similar sentiment.  We would have no powered steering, no ABS, no airbags.

 

I think this illustrates the point pretty effectively.

 

We need some input from Affinity directly, rather than conjecture and hearsay, whether it is a new user posting or a moderator.

[NaulisJakke]

1 hour ago, cyberlizard said:

there seems to be an oddly prevailing opinion such as SoftwareItem X did not have a certain feature until it reached its 10th incarnation.  Can you imagine if manufacturers of cars adopted a similar sentiment.  We would have no powered steering, no ABS, no airbags.

 

I think this illustrates the point pretty effectively.

 

We need some input from Affinity directly, rather than conjecture and hearsay, whether it is a new user posting or a moderator.

I completely agree. That truly is the point. 

[Solly]

Staff and Moderators are clearly marked. I have counted 27 responses from such in this thread since Feb 26, 2019. The company view has been stated multiple times and has been consistent. It may not be the answer I desire, but the concern has been addressed. 

[Radek K]

On 1/15/2021 at 2:51 AM, fde101 said:

If not, I recommend the thread be locked, as it seems to have run its course.

Closing this thread will lead to more confusion and frustration from new users who just figured out about this problem. This thread should be open at least until Serif publish clear statement about this feature so anyone can easliy get to now, that there is no footnotes and endnotes, and when Serif plan to introduce them.

[fde101]

6 hours ago, Radek K said:

This thread should be open at least until Serif publish clear statement about this feature so anyone can easliy get to now, that there is no footnotes and endnotes, and when Serif plan to introduce them.

No, the thread should stay *visible* to benefit those new users.

Locking a thread does not hide it - it just prevents new posts, and very few helpful posts have been added in the past several pages, with most of those simply being posts that repeat or point out material previously posted earlier in the thread.

[Kevin Scally]

On 12/16/2020 at 7:51 PM, JaviAl said:

Not exactly. Who decided to build a new program from scratch was Aldus, not Adobe,  code name Shuksan, the future Indesign, in order to be able to compete with Quark. When Adobe bought Aldus, Indesign are in working process from Aldus and Shuksan programmers in Aldus move to Adobe to continue de development of Indesign.

 

Aldus had all sort of projects and skunkworks on the go in1993/4; many never saw the light of day. Undoubtedly some developers were trying out PageMaker/Xpress alternatives in Aldus and Adobe both. Aldus wouldn't make that decision to switch at a high level as Brainerd was unlikely to ditch his baby, PageMaker. The massive amount of code in PageMaker made it almost impossible to mess with so the (business) decision was ultimately made by Adobe management. My main point was that PageMaker began life with a narrow publishing (newspaper) paradigm and couldn't adjust to the magazine and general graphics industry requirements, which Quark succeeded in doing. Quark development also took some wrong turns and, of course, the pricing model was utterly brutal. .

 

 

[Pedrober]

After data merging, maybe footnotes/endnotes support is the next big feature APub is going to add?

[DrBob53]

On 9/1/2018 at 12:13 PM, micornelius said:

Also here footnotes/end notes essential in book publishing

Given these were a feature in Pageplus x6, would Affinity consider including a complimentary licence to their legacy products with a purchase of the until the new product? I am in the position that I have x6 on my very old laptop but cant transfer it to a new computer because I can't download it. In short i'm stuffed.

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, DrBob53 said:

Given these were a feature in Pageplus x6, would Affinity consider including a complimentary licence to their legacy products with a purchase of the until the new product? I am in the position that I have x6 on my very old laptop but cant transfer it to a new computer because I can't download it. In short i'm stuffed.

Welcome to the Serif Affinity Forums, @DrBob53.

If you reply to this post on CommunityPlus it should be possible for you to arrange to obtain copies of the PPX6 installation files.

[Capitaine Pongo]

One feature that would be good in footnotes would be to be able to manage footnotes by section. For books in several chapters, be able to restart footnotes from zero at the beginning of the chapter.

[Capitaine Pongo]

One feature that would be good in footnotes would be to be able to manage footnotes by section. For books in several chapters, be able to restart footnotes from zero at the beginning of the chapter.

[cyberlizard]

11 hours ago, Capitaine Pongo said:

One feature that would be good in footnotes would be to be able to manage footnotes by section. For books in several chapters, be able to restart footnotes from zero at the beginning of the chapter.

this is a good idea but they just need to get the basic requirements done first.

[dominik]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:50 AM, Capitaine Pongo said:

One feature that would be good in footnotes would be to be able to manage footnotes by section. For books in several chapters, be able to restart footnotes from zero at the beginning of the chapter.

I think this is a very good idea and if they do it similar to table of contents that are already available they could include a definition of scope for the footnotes. That would basically cover what you are asking for. Not?

d.

[Last Chance]

This is something I recommended pages ago. To my mind, endnotes should really be stored at the end of each chapter or section; lumping them at the end of the book is a real faff.

[J@HWC]

22 hours ago, Last Chance said:

endnotes should really be stored at the end of each chapter or section; lumping them at the end of the book is a real faff.

That should be an option, as it is in say LibreOffice.  But on a bit of a side note, I put the annotations for my first book at the end of each chapter and it's been the result of nearly all my less than 5 star reviews.   It seems a number of people find it annoying to try to find the end of the chapter when it's easier to find the end of the book.

[Last Chance]

Horse for Courses @J@HWC! 😉 I have only used endnotes at the end of chapters for one book, without any adverse feedback, but you are right about having the various options for the placement of notes.

My current book is so large (356,000 words and counting) that having them all at the back of the book would be a nightmare. One section alone has 1,100 footnotes, although that will be edited down in due course. Also, I never put pertinent data in a foot/endnote, just cross-references and sources.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Last Chance
clarification

[MJWHM]

2 hours ago, J@HWC said:

That should be an option, as it is in say LibreOffice.  But on a bit of a side note, I put the annotations for my first book at the end of each chapter and it's been the result of nearly all my less than 5 star reviews.   It seems a number of people find it annoying to try to find the end of the chapter when it's easier to find the end of the book.

It is one reason why I tend to prefer footnotes, but of course that needs sophisticated software if one changes text at all.

[IAmMatt]

On 1/4/2021 at 6:51 PM, Peter Falkenberg Brown said:

Here are possible alternative scenarios:

* Serif withdraws Publisher from the market until footnotes/endnotes are ready.

* Serif raises the price of Publisher to match Adobe's products, and with that extra revenue (assuming anyone paid the fees) hired more programmers to get footnotes done more quickly.

* Serif puts a huge, red-letter note on AF's web page that says: "AF Doesn't Have Footnotes! Be Warned!"

 

As one of the many people who have come to this thread after having found out in disbelief that this basic functionality is not (yet) supported I actually think your third option would have been the fair thing to do. It doesn't have to be huge red letters but a "Here's what you need to know before purchasing" page that includes a point along the following lines would have been nice: "Please be aware that Affinity Publisher does not currently support footnotes and is therefore not suitable for academic use; however we are working on implementing this functionality and hope to be able to offer it by X (or "in version X")."

 

Honestly, having read through this entire thread I am beginning to think that there are several cultural disconnects here that prevent effective communication between people. One of these disconnects is between professional developers and users, where those that develop software for a living know how complex it is to implement certain things and how unrealistic the timelines and features are that some users request. On the other hand those that write and/or lay out text for a living know how absolutely essential it is to be able to deal with footnotes and cannot understand how this point isn't obvious. Some people here have compared this to selling a car without shocks or without seats. I think a better analogy would be a car without headlights: perfectly functional for a lot of users, who won't even notice anything is missing, but utterly useless to many; and even those that bought the car to only drive during the day might find out sooner or later that they need it at night from time to time.

Another disconnect I see is one of nationalities and therefore writing styles. The English-speaking world is a culture of endnotes (even if there will be many in this thread that rightly say they need footnotes to work effectively in English as well), and endnotes, while still a PitA to handle manually, are doable that way. However, many countries' academic and even non-academic writing cultures rely on footnotes a lot more. Earlier in this thread someone cited a Hannah Ahrendt text as an example. I would content that that text is only exceptional because it is an easily accessible translated version of a German text. In reality almost every German academic text looks exactly like that example (as do those of many other cultures, including the French and most of Central Europe), with multiple footnotes that flow to the next page and often with footnotes taking up more than half the page. I think this may explain the frustrations of some users here and the perceived lack of understanding on the part of the developers and marketing team of Serif.

 

I don't have a solution for this problem but I also don't want this thread to die because it is a useful reminder that this is still a pressing problem for many people.

Edited March 8, 2021 by IAmMatt