Canva

[Chills]

24 minutes ago, CLC said:

7 hours ago, SrPx said:

https://www.afr.com/technology/no-one-can-buy-canva-now-other-start-ups-beware-20231220-p5esr8

Edit: Ouch, sorry. It seems that article is partially behind a paywall...

Here is an archived version of the article before it got paywalled https://archive.is/tpn6p so everyone can read it.

This is Good News as it could suggest that Canva brought Affinity to stop any attempt by Adobe (or Microsoft?) to buy Canva.  The time scales fit.   The deal fell apart in December. I assume Canva would have been watching and planning.

With Canva owning Affinity, which is becoming a competitor of Adobe, the monopoly rules etc would stop such a buy-out by Adobe. Certainly a hostile one.
So it is in Canva's interests to keep developing Affinity to compete with Adobe.  The best way to do that is, apart from developing the apps more, is the perpetual licence.

This might not be a bad situation for affinity users.

[j3rry]

Despite all the advantages of Canvas in the future, I would like to temper expectations somewhat. Firstly, you need more developers (which are in short supply) to satisfy the pent-up wishes of customers, so I don't expect a fundamental breakthrough with 2.5 and secondly, software development also takes time. Ergo, we won't see any major effects until v3.0, and if that comes with a subscription, at least I don't mind.

Just my two cents 

 

[MikeV]

1 hour ago, Alfred said:

Just to add to the confusion, the first Baron Sydney was Robert Sidney before he was elevated to the peerage.

Barons rank lower than viscounts. Robert Sidney became Baron Sydney in 1603, Viscount Lisle in 1605, and finally Earl of Leicester in 1618.

And even more confusion that Sydney is named after Thomas Townshend, 1st Viscount Sydney (February 1733 to June 1800) who made the decision to establish a colony in Australia in his role as Secretary of State for the Home Office. He was the son of Charles Townshend, the 2nd Viscount Townshend – this was the second use of the Viscount Sydney title after the first line died out with Henry Sydney in 1704 – he was the last of the line mentioned by Alfred. And it appears Sidney and Sydney were used interchangeably at several points. It's enough to make your brain hurt.

[fraisecafe]

On 3/28/2024 at 4:30 PM, Ash said:

Yeah for the record done by a new employee doing our social media, it was not authorised by me or any of the senior management here and was in the context of loads of rumours that Adobe were going to buy us at that time. But yeah I get it, we've been caught out with a stupid tweet which everyone is loving throwing back in our face. We're not the first and won't be the last!

Was that ever publicly corrected, @Ash?

[OzNate]

16 hours ago, albertkinng said:

My journey with Adobe began in 1994, but the introduction of Creative Cloud (CC) marked the beginning of my dissatisfaction.

Same. I think I started in '95.

At first I thought CC was cool, but that didn't last long. My only regret was not upgrading to CS6 perpetual and staying there. I went from 5.5 to CC.

[Gytrash]

I'm completely in accord with the sentiments voiced by most Affinity users here: NO SUBSCRIPTION MODEL!!! Canva will do well to realise that most Affinity Suite users are disaffected former Adobe ones and the reasons we put up with the reduced toolset, snail's-pace development and lack of response to feature requests is that 1.) We don't have to subscribe (whether we have the work to pay for it that month or not) and 2.) the apps feel slick and stable enough to be genuinely GREAT enough to whoop Adobe's ass, given time.

Now if Canva dosh enables 2.), then I'm all for it, but NOT at the price of accepting 1.) And that is absolute. Subscription models for software suck balls and now, at the twilight of my career, I'm perfectly happy to investigate alternatives, like the incredibly promising VectorStyler and that classic Mac Photoshop alternative, Pixelmator.

So do the right thing, Affinity and stand by your customers!

[walt.farrell]

30 minutes ago, fraisecafe said:

Was that ever publicly corrected, @Ash?

That tweet was still present when I quoted it in one of the threads here a couple of days ago. I did wonder why it hadn't been removed, unless that would have made things even worse at the time. I haven't searched for it again, but it's easy enough to find if it's still present.

[Intuos5]

FYI on the Affinity and Canva pledge page, there's a Google Forms for feedback regarding the acquisition and new features: https://affin.co/shareyourthoughts

I forgot to mention an on-canvas stroke weight editing feature (as opposed to editing the profile curve) in mine 😅

 

[Intuos5]

4 hours ago, bbrother said:

But don't think that apart from injecting money into Affinity, Canva has anything to offer, even when it comes to cloud solutions, which if Serif wanted to introduce, it could do without Canva's help. Soon, when Serif will release updates, we will see what will result from this marriage and whether Canva's money will translate into a more professional and stable application with fewer bugs.

The cloud based infrastructure is, for many, the way forward. Lots of start up software companies that challenge market leaders are emerging based on a cloud infrastructure. I think you underestimate how difficult it is to transition from an off-line to an online environment where you need to sync and save edits from multiple users in the same document at once.

[albertkinng]

1 hour ago, Intuos5 said:

if Serif wanted to introduce, it could do without Canva's help.

Alright, let's clarify. Affinity has ceased to exist in its previous form. Only its name remains. Canva now dictates what stays and what goes. Even if the CEO were to declare otherwise, the truth is straightforward: Canva acquired Affinity, granting it supremacy. Affinity no longer holds sway. Consequently, any future software updates will likely reflect Canva's influence and preferences.

[Chills]

24 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

Alright, let's clarify. Affinity has ceased to exist in its previous form. Only its name remains. Canva now dictates what stays and what goes. Even if the CEO were to declare otherwise, the truth is straightforward: Canva acquired Affinity, granting it supremacy. Affinity no longer holds sway. Consequently, any future software updates will likely reflect Canva's influence and preferences.

Let's just clarify. Affinity exists exactly as it did last month.  It now has different owners.
The development teams and management teams still exist, with a few exceptions at the top.
The roadmap as stated by the new owners is the same as Affinity had, just accelerated a bit.

The only thing you are correct on is that Canva now has control of the roadmap.  Though from all indications they don't look as though they are going to change it much in the short term.  Medium term I think there will be some changes to fit with Canva. Long term is anyone's guess, depending on what happens in the short-medium term. However the Affinity team will have an influence on that as they know their market.

 

[bbrother]

1 hour ago, Intuos5 said:

I think you underestimate how difficult it is to transition from an off-line to an online environment where you need to sync and save edits from multiple users in the same document at once.

Contrary. I am a full-stack web-dev (Js on the client side, PHP on the server side, RDBMS like Maria DB, SQL is my passion).

During my professional career, I have had the opportunity to help implement cloud solutions, although this is not my main domain.
With the right people who have knowledge in storage, servers, databases, networking, software and analytics, this is no challenge at all.
Fortunately, I had the pleasure of working with such people.

From what I have seen so far, how some functions have been implemented in Affinity, I think that they also have people with appropriate competences who, supported by dedicated cloud system specialists, could easily push this topic forward.

[Patrick B]

I tried out Canva recently and, financial backing aside, I really don't see what it's going to bring to the table for Affinity. Honestly, I despise the Canva software, especially its UI and lack of essential control features, and insane promotion of AI slop. Hell, I can't even kern my type properly. Compared to Affinity, using this would just slow me down unless my goal was to put something out quick and half-arsed onto my Instagram feed.

Does anyone here actually use Canva professionally? How has it served you?

[Chills]

1 hour ago, Intuos5 said:

The cloud based infrastructure is, for many, the way forward. Lots of start up software companies that challenge market leaders are emerging based on a cloud infrastructure. I think you underestimate how difficult it is to transition from an off-line to an online environment where you need to sync and save edits from multiple users in the same document at once.

It depends what you mean by "cloud"   I have worked on Sw that was across 8 sites in 4 countries. I think the total number was about 400 people in the teams.  That was in the early 90s and did not use the internet at all.  (leased lines in those days)  This sort of development has been doing on for about 40 years that I know of.    There are clouds and there are clouds.   See the BMD project cloud system that permits teams to edit/colour video and do audio video on the same project simultaneously.
Since COIVD  and remote working, developing SW by remote people and teams is not new.  VCS software has been around decades and is very mature.

It depends on what (and whose) cloud(s) you are using.

[albertkinng]

2 minutes ago, Patrick B said:

Does anyone here actually use Canva professionally? How has it served you?

Canva, like Adobe, is indispensable in the design business. Although I don't have a paid account, my primary focus is Brand Management and Unlimited Graphic Design for medium and large companies with marketing departments and agency partnerships. For instance, I create 50 artboards on Affinity Designer, export them as a single PDF, then upload them to Canva. Within Canva, I add placeholders for images so that my clients, who use Canva and appreciate its features, can easily customize the content. Once the templates are ready, I share a link on their portals for them to transfer the project to their accounts. I utilize Canva in this manner, solely for sharing projects that require customization by clients.. 

[R C-R]

12 hours ago, lphilpot said:

Exactly. I'll take realism -- even if it superficially looks pessimistic at times -- rather than rose-colored glasses.

Realism, in the sense of being realistic, means to consider that which is real (tangible, existent) in the here & now. Pessimism & optimism are about considering what might happen in the future. 

[Robert Hansford]

Hello! I've been away from the forums for a while, but decided to drop in tonight. I stumbled across this post, and I just wanted to say congratulations on closing the deal, and that I really admire you and your team. You guys have been pure class from day one, and have taught me a lot about what it means to be a professional and a creative. In that regard, I still have a long long way to go. However, I am certain that I have learned so much more than just how to use your software.

As for the acquisition, when I saw the video announcement and felt the air I could only imagine what a difficult decision it must have been. I admit that like many others I had a moment of despair, but it was relatively brief. I have been using your software for a few years now, but I feel like I am just now hitting my stride. You see, you guys have made it possible for all kinds of people to chase their dreams; or at the very least find a respite from the world in their hobby of choice. At any rate, it gives people hope and some kind of potential to work towards. Entire communities have sprung up around Affinity as a result. This in turn creates a powerful sense of belonging. People don't want to lose these things.  They don't want to lose that hope and sense of belonging. I think this is what a lot of people are feeling at the moment, but are unable to articulate. They're reacting in anger because they are subconsciously afraid their hopes and dreams will die. 

I am confident, that with time, people will see that you have held to your pledges regarding mission, practices, and pricing. They will see your software offerings continue to improve and excel. The negativity will pass. I suspect you have already considered much of what I have said here, but I felt compelled to chime in. There doesn't seem to be enough encouragement to go around these days. Please keep going. Don't give in to the neigh sayers or the pitchfork mob, and don't let it affect the way you conduct yourselves. Please continue to work confidently and proudly with your heads held high. Thank you for everything thus far. 

Cheers, and best wishes on the next leg of your journey. 🍻

[monzo]

1 hour ago, Chills said:

The only thing you are correct on is that Canva now has control of the roadmap. 

That’s not actually the case. They now own everything, which means they control everything. So for example there’s been zero detail of what happens to our online account panel, now owned by Canva. What’s going to happen to support - which is 50% value of any software purchase? This forum? They own the server that’s used for license activation. They own the Mac and iOS Store accounts, which provide access to our software downloads and IAP activations.

So yeah, on the surface nothing has changed yet, but very soon everything could be very, very different. Do you want to have to rely on Canva’s support system if/when it’s the only option left available? I don’t.

 I hope things stay as they are, but there has been no official confirmation about the things I’ve listed above that this will be the case, and I’ve yet to see anyone from Canva on here welcoming us to the fold.

[lphilpot]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Realism, in the sense of being realistic, means to consider that which is real (tangible, existent) in the here & now. Pessimism & optimism are about considering what might happen in the future. 

I dunno ... after 6+ decades of dealing with vendors, businesses, people in general and everything else I've learned that more often than I'd like (in that context) pessimism is often realistic. And in the long run, less disappointing.

[SrPx]

8 hours ago, CLC said:

Here is an archived version of the article before it got paywalled https://archive.is/tpn6p so everyone can read it.

  

Exactly what's on my mind. Also it's exactly the reason why artists are mad and starting to ai-poison their artworks. EU just started talking about control of ai and its usage, let's hope they will take us in account.

Hollywood lobby got their way around video piracy, we should want to do the same to protect us. Especially for those who use LAION-5B dataset for their commercial ai models.

Well, I personally am not fan of the takeover and worry that Affinity as we know it will cease to exist and will be turned into something different. I switched back to Adobe CC for my business needs when I saw no real progress in V2, yet I still use sometimes for some small personal projects, just because I'm sorry to let the money I've spent on it and the many add-ons burn.

We'll see if the pledge is true and Canva will help Serif to grow Affinity to a better suite.

You got my heartfelt 'like' for the AI comment  (would have gotten the purple one if I weren't slightly disagreeing in other points). The 2.0 was a bump in the road, yep... But I reacted by helping with user workarounds (like there was no tomorrow, lol), as many other did (Walt, Alfred, etc, etc) while the devs progressively went fixing everything. Any software is at that state in the "machines room" while doing it... and if released too soon, that is what you see. Having worked at regular software companies and game studios quite intensively, I knew I was just looking at it "from inside", not something going particularly wrong, but maybe (I could be wrong) released too soon. Just that. You wouldn't imagine how some games are plagued with bugs while development. Or even office related software. But with experience being a beta tester for many apps, I did not mind it, found the workflows and tricks for my own usage and shared all what I could here, researched issues of others, specially for those who found A or B a show stopper for their needs. Helped as much as I could. But I can understand the pain.

To me, even with the bumps in the road, and this "surprise", these apps are way, way worth it, compared to what it's out there, and also the style of doing things of this team (team which, for all I understood, is gonna be kept to continue the development). It is an unique combination (even rare), and it is very much worth it preserving it. And I foresee it will stay so, and better (more resources, by far). About... progress... I guess varies from field to field... 2.x , I don't know the technicalities or reasons why, but the brush engine is more fluid, in Affinity Photo.  1.x very latest and perfected/patched version is almost as fluid, and super functional, but, in my machine (and it could be a single case, yet I doubt it, for how I configure things... it's also this way in my laptop) the brush flows more fluid, better response in every 2.x version compared to the best 1.x. I'm talking painting fluidly with large brushes, large canvases (which is taxing in ANY app, I've done deep research), Adobe RGB color space files, working with 16bits/channel, and using brushes that mimic traditional media. This was not so in the past versions of 1.x (again, a lot was improved in the latest 1.x). In the old past there was even brush lag.  Also, many UI improvements related to brushes library and settings, a gazillion bugs fixed in all the apps, in the following 2.x versions (2.4 runs really smooth here). I do more than painting, and I have not found a "show stopper" in my workflows, but like with any software and brand, I'm sure there always are.

Adobe being on its own (speaking now about the "going back to Adobe" that you mention) is a HUGE price to pay and a situation we (imo) must not admit (except those willing to work as part of staffs, learning and heading for a specific job profile, or only having freelance market clients that require Adobe apps pipelines, formats, integration. Adobe is the industry (many industries) leader). Meaning, if Adobe is again "left alone", to eat "all the pie", that's really bad news (renting prices augmenting, random decisions way easier for them, no need to offer better deals or competing apps for certain niches,  etc, etc). We need competition (it's actually great for Adobe users), even with  these "bumps". I'm fluent with open source apps, and for low-mid range that should be enough, but a lot of people keeps finding difficult certain UIs . In reality, a lot of that is the bad image from the past, more than recent versions' reality, but difficult to fight against that concept. 

So, Affinity is a need, with Canva or with whatever behind it. Plus, I believe people are seeing things way to much one-sided. It's not like I don't see the bad sides, but to me, only AI is the real bad one, but artists are alone in this (people are getting nervous with AI in other profiles, like coders, but imo they shouldn't... yet) and it's an unavoidable tech (although there's over hype, too, for increasing VC funding), which as you say, can only be kept under control by regulation (I'm hopeful that it will).

But the other reasons, which most people are worried about (subscriptions, continued development, etc), I am seeing more and more that these should be less of a concern, some aspects are not given the same weight as the negative possibilities, is what I am finding.

BTW, not trying to demonize Adobe. I love its apps. Photoshop for me is more natural than my tooth brush, but a monopolistic situation has been detrimental for all of us (including Adobe users), IMO, as tends to be with consumers, we need competition. This is not the easy path, the easy one is Adobe, one must have it clear (you can't have it all...). But I am not that convinced that (for a freelancer/independent business, again, not for a career in the industry) sticking with the "giant" is necessarily the safest route... as indeed, I have friends that saw how sticking with Adobe "no matter what", ended having to close an entire small business line with Muse (specially as many of those chose that business line because they can't do web code, any programming at all, but their service was making websites with Muse) , Fireworks, Freehand, etc, all similar stories. Microsoft has done that a lot, too (acquired many software studios). These people (The A-team  ) have a different style and different model than Adobe or MS. Not only Affinity team (I'm not saying "Serif", you know what I mean), as IMO, while with a very different motto,  it is also in Canva's main interest to push up Affinity apps, not the opposite, from what we are seeing that seems to be the big market motivations. I can easily see that they want to grab a bigger chunk of Adobe's market, but "just that". I think they are smart enough to know that in higher tiers Adobe will keep undisputed (but the casuals (and now aiming for a middle ground too, with Affinity) are a huge market... mainstream always is very big). Even that very sole reason is reassuring, which, BTW, is very materialistic itself (for the realism lovers   ), just markets stuff, and quite an argument to realize that the outcome of a more powerful Affinity suite is more than probable, beyond of course being ensured its permanence.

 

[loukash]

55 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

after 6+ decades of dealing with vendors, businesses, people in general and everything else I've learned that more often than I'd like (in that context) pessimism is often realistic. And in the long run, less disappointing.

But constant pessimism will eventually propagate into a person's overall mood and attitude.

Not necessarily wanting to end up as a "grumpy old man", my preferred method of facing life is what I call "adaptive pragmatism" (after all, I was born and grew up in Prague, y'know… ) with focus on the now and the near foreseeable future. That has worked for me pretty well since several decades.

And that's how I'm facing this takeover as well, after absorbing and processing my initial Tuesday Shock™:
Why worry now about highly hypothetical things that may or may not happen in a distant future?

[SrPx]

7 hours ago, MikeV said:

And even more confusion that Sydney is named after Thomas Townshend, 1st Viscount Sydney (February 1733 to June 1800) who made the decision to establish a colony in Australia in his role as Secretary of State for the Home Office. He was the son of Charles Townshend, the 2nd Viscount Townshend – this was the second use of the Viscount Sydney title after the first line died out with Henry Sydney in 1704 – he was the last of the line mentioned by Alfred. And it appears Sidney and Sydney were used interchangeably at several points. It's enough to make your brain hurt.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I was not confusing historical figures (which I didn't even know about, ouch,   )... it's waay less sophisticated. In Spanish it's written "Sídney", so, that's why   😅 .

[mehdy]

3 hours ago, albertkinng said:

Canva, like Adobe, is indispensable in the design business. Although I don't have a paid account, my primary focus is Brand Management and Unlimited Graphic Design for medium and large companies with marketing departments and agency partnerships. For instance, I create 50 artboards on Affinity Designer, export them as a single PDF, then upload them to Canva. Within Canva, I add placeholders for images so that my clients, who use Canva and appreciate its features, can easily customize the content. Once the templates are ready, I share a link on their portals for them to transfer the project to their accounts. I utilize Canva in this manner, solely for sharing projects that require customization by clients.. 

Thank you so much I like this idea, 

[SrPx]

7 hours ago, j3rry said:

Despite all the advantages of Canvas in the future, I would like to temper expectations somewhat. Firstly, you need more developers (which are in short supply) to satisfy the pent-up wishes of customers, so I don't expect a fundamental breakthrough with 2.5 and secondly, software development also takes time. Ergo, we won't see any major effects until v3.0, and if that comes with a subscription, at least I don't mind.

Just my two cents 

 

Yes, I know how it has always been said that people with a very specific profile (Serif counted on a bunch of very high profile from previous developments to Affinity) are hard to find. And I believe it to be true. But! Loads of cash go a very long way to find them even under a rock.    That and contacts, professional networks that the new almost-giant has.

About the time... we have had recent events (avoiding specifics to not open that can of worms) in the world which demonstrated that while it was believed that "certain thing" could be only be developed in 10 to 20 years, with enough money and common effort thrown at it, not only one, but a bunch of several "brands" solutions were "up and running" in just one year (not talking about AI... this time ) . 

I believe in the power of money  . Realistic enough?      (doesn't mean that I like materialism, quite the opposite. But it is what it is)

[pixelworker]

I really regret having bought the v2 update.

I can't imagine any positive impact on Affinity. I doubt that they get just more development resources.

I don't want cloud integration. When I want to work collaborative I use figma and I couldn't care less about canva.

Do you have any non-web-based, professional alternatives in mind for designer and photo to create screen mock-ups? (vector and pixel based) and simple photo editing?