Canva

[JGD]

A couple of observations on the recent news, as a very special tester and the guy who suggested Serif bet the farm on Affinity at a time they were seemingly already doing it in secret (yes, remember that e-mail you got back in 2014, where I even quoted Churchill? That was me):

 

• The video that was posted on the news page was not very reassuring, and any PR specialist will tell you that.

 

• The pledge is all well and good, but it is not legally binding and, I take it, was not posted right away upon the announcement of the acquisition; and while the negotiations were done in two months and that does seem to be a very short time when it comes to these things, was it that difficult to have said pledge ready to go on day one? Another PR disaster, IMHO.

 

• Canva doesn’t have the best reputation overall, as a tool, among professional designers; however, they do seem to be loaded with cash, and their explanation that there is not much of an overlap in functionality, but perhaps in target market (i.e., some Canva users may want and actually be able to graduate from it to Affinity, or use it as a more advanced editing tool for objects even if they stay largely within the confines of Canva, kind of like you can already do across Affinity apps, and Affinity users may benefit from collaborative tools, for sure), does make sense, and sure, there may be some synergies, and Canva might be able to undercut Adobe both in subscription price – because we all know a subscription is coming, let’s not fool ourselves – and flexibility – if it makes financial sense and they don’t get too greedy, yes, them offering perpetual or semi-perpetual (à la Typeface.app) licenses, for which Affinity is famous for, may remain a thing.

And yes, we can’t be hypocrites and complain about Canva not valuing design as a professional pathway if they do indeed make good on their promises and start promoting their newly acquired serious tools and tutorials, which may lead people into making decent amateur design or even studying it at some level, and to Canva not just being part of the problem but also providing the solution. Heck, the files produced in Canva may even become better on a technical level if they move towards Serif tech at some point.

 

• Canva also has bad reputation when it comes to AI, and while we don’t expect them to drop it, we may give it the benefit of the doubt out of necessity. Expect, however, thorough sifting of EULAs, and maybe even lawsuits if user creations are ever mined for content.

 

• We’ve been burned in the past, and none of this is very surprising, only sad. In hindsight, it’s patently obvious that Serif was lacking the resources to keep up with Adobe after their seemingly vertiginous pace during the early years.

 

• The promises of missing features being added to V2 are all well and good, but in a sense, they are a bit too good; some of us suspect the team is just trying to wrap it up, and that indeed V3 is shaping up to be a very boring cash-grab, or mostly Canva-focused (because that integration will surely take time and can only really start now, if it does become a thing), and us losing access one day to V2 activations is also a concerning prospect (the indefinite maintenance of activation servers for as long as Canva exists as a corporate entity, and maybe even some properly laid out exit strategy in case it goes belly up, should be part of the pledge itself, spelled out in writing or even added to the very EULAs, and become legally binding, between Canva and us, the customers).

 

• Until all these fears are well and properly assuaged, I – and, I suspect, many others – won’t even bother with giving suggestions for my pet features on the betas, the topmost – variable font support – having been the first one mentioned in said video and on the pledge. Why should I, if Adobe already offers it in such stable form, and me having to switch back to CC may become a reality? Not until V3 rolls around as a truly groundbreaking, perpetually-licensed set of apps, and especially not now when Affinity devs are loaded with cash and could and should hire proper testers and pay for proper focus groups, instead of relying on community efforts.

You see, you had a tacit, unwritten agreement with your testers, in that we knew you were, staying with the Churchillian metaphor, the strapped-for-cash underdogs that were fighting the good fight, and with this acquisition you obviously lost a lot of that goodwill and the tiny bit that remains is now on probation, if not on thin ice. With Canva being just the lesser and more affordable and flexible of two evils – at least for the time being –, we’re now just your customers, not your fighting buddies, sorry.

That is not to say that you won’t keep fighting, but you’ll also have to do so to get at least our basic confidence back (not just to get new switchers from Adobe, which I still hope you do as long as you’re not trapping them into a technological dead end), and you won’t get unbridled word-of-mouth from us anymore because obviously we will warn our colleagues, students, etc. of all the corporate shenanigan and technical caveats (i.e. Affinity, in its free educational/non-profit version, is nice to learn just in case it turns into an alternative standard, but not safe enough to bet an entire portfolio on it lest it’s canned or something, and definitely even less of a safe option in its commercial incarnation for the same reason, and I hope Canva realizes this and doesn’t nix perpetual licenses based on understandably skewed sales numbers). V2.x, and especially V3 and beyond will be crucial in that regard.

 

TL;DR: nice as all of you at Serif may be as people, unless Canva allows you to interact with the community as you always did, and treats the community according to its very special ethos and idiosyncrasies, you likely lost us all for good, and will see at best a cooling down period until we see you all make good on your pledges.

It’s not vindictiveness, it’s just basic human behaviour; why would we, as old Macromedia users, old Creative Suite users, old Plus users, etc., keep blindly investing our time and mental energy in the development and improvement of this piece of software after having been so thoroughly burned, time and time again, by greedy corporate entities and technology transitions? My €0,02.

[jonnyblasticles]

1 hour ago, JGD said:

It’s not vindictiveness, it’s just basic human behaviour; why would we, as old Macromedia users, old Creative Suite users, old Plus users, etc., keep blindly investing our time and mental energy in the development and improvement of this piece of software after having been so thoroughly burned, time and time again, by greedy corporate entities and technology transitions? 

Nicely said. Affinity presented itself not just as another design suite but as an answer to Adobes corporate ethos and monopoly. Knowing Canva, I don't think that its too much of a stretch to imagine Adobe simply acquiring them after just to shut down the competition or merging Affinity's features into its own products or Canva into something like XD or Figma

[JGD]

P.S.: Where’s the equivalent video from Canva, where its bosses show their faces and undersign their part of the pledge? Where are their user accounts in their forums to interact with us directly like you all did? I don’t think it might undermine your authority, quite the contrary, and it would go a long way to show they’re serious about professional design tools, not just hellbent in acquiring IP.

[JGD]

7 minutes ago, jonnyblasticles said:

Nicely said. Affinity presented itself not just as another design suite but as an answer to Adobes corporate ethos and monopoly. Knowing Canva, I don't think that its too much of a stretch to imagine Adobe simply acquiring them after just to shut down the competition or merging Affinity's features into its own products or Canva into something like XD or Figma

While I get your fears, I do trust the Aussies and the Brits to indeed take on Adobe instead of selling out. It’s the kind of hugely monopolistic transaction that would certainly raise all sorts of antitrust alarms, as did the Figma one before it. Heck, it would be even worse because Affinity, if it is to remain in Canva’s line up as-is or even in remotely similar form, is the only credible, cross-platform, commercial alternative to three of Adobe’s most important CC apps. That the Macromedia acquisition was ever allowed in the first place is what truly boggles the mind…

[bbrother]

5th pledge

Quote

Stay with us (now Canva) and you'll be healthy, happy and if you buy our stock after its debut on the stock exchange you'll also be a rich.

That's how much these pledges are worth.

The first test will be the launch of version 2.5 beta.
Then we'll see what you offer (features and bug fixes) and whether you take users seriously.

By the way, does using fake accounts on the forum to placate users mean that new "good changes" after synergy have already started?

[ms.fuentecilla]

Having looked at the Canva website, I think this is when I return to Adobe. Brash, noisy, thoroughly unprofessional. A very sad occasion. So-long and thanks for all the fish!

However, it has been a pleasure that I shall remember, working with Serif Affinity from its inception following their transition from the old editing programmes. It has been interesting and rewarding. Such a shame it had to be taken over, whatever the words. I have experienced those words quite a few times. They remain valid for a few months, no more.

[jonnyblasticles]

Just now, ms.fuentecilla said:

Brash, noisy, thoroughly unprofessional. A very sad occasion. 

That's why I always call Canva the "your Aunt on Facebook" of design software. 

[Scungio]

I am not really surprised by the news. If you use software for any length of time, you see this happen all the time, it is normal. 

I started out with Freehand and we know how that worked out. My first animation software was Moho, which got bought by a company named Smith Micro and they really did not treat it very well, but then years later the original creator Mike Clifton bought Moho (Anime Studio) from Smith Micro and has been introducing really great features with each new release. Sometimes there is a storybook ending, sometimes companies do uphold their principles and values, although Mike Clifton took a roundabout way to finally get back to what was really important.

In terms of a partnership or merging with Canva giving Affinity users a bad name?? Sorry to break it to some people but that ship sailed long ago, it was baked in from the beginning. When you tell somebody you use Affinity Designer, Photo, Publisher, the usual response is one of disdain or disgust. Far too often you are put down if you don't use Adobe software.

I am looked down upon because I choose to use Moho over Toon Boom Harmony.

I am looked down upon because I choose to use Blender instead of something like Maya.

I got back into doing printmaking, doing wood cuts, linocuts and rather than have a fancy conventional press, I instead went the route of having a Slama press which is a handheld baren that has 150 stainless steel balls, and also a Ritualis Press. These two were not cheap and I probably could have bought a second hand etching press for the total cost but I really enjoy the more intimate/hands on nature of the presses that I chose. Yet there are those that would belittle me for the choices that I have made.

This is a constant in my life and it does not faze me one bit, does not bother me at all. Oh, you still use Micro 4/3rds cameras?? Yeah, I have a pretty sweet collection of old Olympus lens and cameras that are still fine by me. So, I don't care about some slights that people may lob my way for using Affinity products that are now associated with Canva.

One last thing that I might add, I always am on the lookout for new software because I know how things can suddenly change for the worse. That is why I have ON1 Photo Raw in addition to using Affinity Photo. That is why I have VectorStyler and Patternodes and Vectoraster in addition to Affinity Designer. That is why I have Nomad Sculpt and Plasticity in addition to Blender. I have Moho but also bought Procreate Dreams. Yeah, you can have a 401K, stocks and bonds but also Bitcoin. Redundancy is a good thing.

 

[jacekl]

A surprisingly interesting thread:

 https://www.vectorstyler.com/forum/topic/2621/affinity-designer-v2-0

[mb6391]

As expected, a great deal of reaction to the Canva issue. No point in getting hot under the collar although I've also had a rant earlier on.

Whatever we say, Canva will do as they wish irrespective as to 'The Pledge' although it may be well meaning. I've still got a fully functioning version of Adobe CS6 and will continue to use the Affinity product until if/when it gives up or is no longer fit (for my purpose). No point in simply jumping ship although I can understand the knee jerk reaction and appreciate the need for some folks to embed themselves with alternative software. Nonetheless each of our circumstances is different but ranting is not going to change the direction of the Canva ship.

Canva have a plan, backed by VC's who are always looking to maximise the IPO price so they can cash out. So whatever is the most profitable route is the one they will take irrespective as to our thoughts. 

[Alfred]

15 minutes ago, jacekl said:

A surprisingly interesting thread:

 https://www.vectorstyler.com/forum/topic/2621/affinity-designer-v2-0

Yes, very interesting! I was surprised to see a post quoting one of the Affinity Forums’ moderators as saying that V1 wasn't originally designed to be cross-platform, since I’ve always understood that the core code for the Affinity suite was deliberately ‘platform agnostic’ from the outset precisely so that it could be made cross-platform at any time by adding different UI layers.

[monzo]

Along with the unanswered guarantees for ‘lifetime’ V2 usage (being at the mercy of an authentication server, that will now be hosted by a totally different company), I wonder what the future for support will be like, if/when issues arise? Will we be thrown into the hellish hoop-jumping ‘Fortress Support’ systems these big corporates like to employ? Systems I’m forced to deal with on a weekly basis, seemingly designed on purpose to make customers give up in frustration? Will this forum still exist? Will the ‘community’ exist?

New Canva account panel? Chaos when ownership of the Mac/iOS store accounts changes over and we have to reactivate the IAP’s?

Where’s the reassurance? Aside from some non-binding PR-friendly ‘pledges’, where’s the details of how this is actually going to work, and affect ‘loyal customers’ over the next few years?

That’s the thing. When I upgraded to V2 a few months ago I wasn’t just buying a piece of software, I was buying promises of upgrades and real support from a small company that cared about its customers, and listened to their feedback. Promises of ‘years of free upgrades’, and ‘we’ll never sell out’.

Three months later, chaos. What a mess.

[Chills]

7 hours ago, Ruffian said:

Here's another article and it looks like the remaining folks are joining Canva.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/23012ff5-97a9-4260-990c-7f5277a962e0?shareToken=a6aaceec7ddeccbeb881808ebbb73cdb

Hewson said the deal with Canva, which was said in January to be valued at $26 billion, had come “out of the blue”. Bates and Bryce are leaving the business completely, while he and Serif’s 93-strong team are joining Canva.

As the articled cays "Gary Bates, 54, and Jim Bryce, 59,".......  "have banked more than £100 million after they sold their graphic design software company to Canva, of Australia, in a deal worth “several hundred million pounds”.

So tell me what would you do if you were in your mid-late 50's, and you were offered £50million ($62 Million USD)  for your company?
After several decades of long, hard struggle, I suspect 99% of us would take the money and walk to the limo.

The other comment of note is "More than three million professional designers use Affinity," Affinity is aimed at and used by professionals. Unlike Canva, which is aimed at amateurs.   All we can hope for is Canva wants to push up the market. This is why there won't be an affinity Video. A-Canva can increase the Affinity portfolio, things like a Lightroom-Bridge DAM that ties the current apps together but a video edit program to compete with the current pro NLE's is well outside the scope.  Especially as Affinity needs to sort out it's stills RAW converter first. .    

[jonnyblasticles]

Just now, Chills said:

As the articled cays "Gary Bates, 54, and Jim Bryce, 59,".......  "have banked more than £100 million after they sold their graphic design software company to Canva, of Australia, in a deal worth “several hundred million pounds”.

 

So tell me what would you do if you were in your mid-late 50's, and you were offered £50million ($62 Million USD)  for your company?
After several decades of long, hard struggle, I suspect 99% of us would take the money and walk to the limo.

I think you're right that most people would but I don't think that it should stop people from voicing their opinions on a company or product that they've bought into that literally presented itself as an alternative the monopolistic Adobe-types. Nor do I think it's helpful or useful to the discourse. If we all had that attitude, these companies would walk all over us even more than they already do. You might like the taste of boots but the rest of us don't. 

 

[jackamus]

7 hours ago, MmmMaarten said:

You can talk whatever you want, but you as a company PROMISED us without any fussy wording that you would NEVER going to let another company aquire you. You stated that LITERALLY. And yet here we are, not even that much later.

Your words mean NOTHING. Spineless. 

Companies that treat clients like this and fail to even respect their own principles, that were the company and product value to begin with, are not worth any more trust. I left instantly because we just cannot trust you. You sold out.

Well said! This is going to be a difficult criticism to refute!

[RD1976]

23 hours ago, BofG said:

I wonder what will become of this forum, if Affinity does carry on in it's current manner.

Will people still be happy to give their time away for free with the knowledge that it's saving a few quid on support staff for the incredibly wealthy owners?

I could imagine that they'll take the Elementor route: "Thanks for all your contributions to the community. We will close our forums here because there is a much better place for communicating and sharing our experiences and tipps: We are opening our very own FaCeBoOk GrOuP. Come all over!"

(And same would be: No, thanks - not interested in Zuckerberg's hate machinery with all its well known issues and data "breaches").

[Chills]

5 minutes ago, jonnyblasticles said:

I think you're right that most people would but I don't think that it should stop people from voicing their opinions on a company or product that they've bought into that literally presented itself as an alternative the monopolistic Adobe-types. Nor do I think it's helpful or useful to the discourse. If we all had that attitude, these companies would walk all over us even more than they already do. You might like the taste of boots but the rest of us don't. 

 

I agree that it leaves the users feeling very sceptical and nervous about the future, as the previous 32 pages of posts show, but it does explain how we got here.  
I am hoping that it is Canva wanting to push into the pro market rather than dragging affinity down to Canva's market. 

[jonnyblasticles]

2 minutes ago, Chills said:

I agree that it leaves the users feeling very sceptical and nervous about the future, as the previous 32 pages of posts show, but it does explain how we got here.  
I am hoping that it is Canva wanting to push into the pro market rather than dragging affinity down to Canva's market. 

Yeah as soon as I read the first corpo email about how they've got exciting plans for the future. I was like oh it's money. They're talking about spending their money. They're schlocky buzzwordy PR isn't very compelling.

As for Canva, I think it will definitely find its way into the pro-market...when its absorbed by Adobe in a year. I was fairly confident Affinity would never make a deal with Adobe but I'm equally as confident that Canva would in a heartbeat. Like you said, everybody takes the money. But ain't it a shame

[IthinkthereforeIam]

I don't understand why you're still here complaining about this situation. It's a fact, Serif no longer exists... and however strong your (resentment) feelings may be 🤒, it's time to turn the page . Either you believe in Affinity's future, or you don't. Serif is/was not your family (or friends), and there are alternatives hopefully 🙂

[Chills]

11 minutes ago, jonnyblasticles said:

Yeah as soon as I read the first corpo email about how they've got exciting plans for the future. I was like oh it's money. They're talking about spending their money. They're schlocky buzzwordy PR isn't very compelling.

As for Canva, I think it will definitely find its way into the pro-market...when its absorbed by Adobe in a year. I was fairly confident Affinity would never make a deal with Adobe but I'm equally as confident that Canva would in a heartbeat. Like you said, everybody takes the money. But ain't it a shame

I don't think Canva is in the Adobe market at all.  Affinity is.  So I think Canva wants a slice of that pro market using the goodwill Affinity has/had to get a slice of it.  The only reason Adobe would have for buying Canva or Affinity is to close i it down. 

That the Affinity PR mentioned variable fonts and a few other things going into Affinity in V2 suggests that Canva does want to move into the pro areas.   I hope so.  
The BIG point about Affinity is that it is perpetual licences and not subscription.

[Skeletor]

9 hours ago, DarkClown said:

… I just seriously ask Canva to keep the pledges! …

I assume that the period for keeping promises will be rather shorter than longer. Just a feeling.

[jonnyblasticles]

8 minutes ago, Chills said:

The only reason Adobe would have for buying Canva or Affinity is to close i it down. 

Yes. Exactly.

[monzo]

34 minutes ago, Chills said:

 

So tell me what would you do if you were in your mid-late 50's, and you were offered £50million ($62 Million USD)  for your company?
After several decades of long, hard struggle, I suspect 99% of us would take the money and walk to the limo.

If it was a company built on the loyalty, goodwill and support from my customers, then I like to think I wouldn’t leave them at the mercy of the exact type of corporate company they wanted to avoid.

Out of the many options available, I would either insist on a majority shareholding, so I could ensure my loyal customers retained all the rights and support that I had originally promised them, or look into a licensing deal, where another company gets a version of my software based on a per-license fee.

But that’s just me.

[Bit Disappointed]

30 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

I assume that the period for keeping promises will be rather shorter than longer. Just a feeling.

Of course.

Serif and Canva have, before the last signatures were to be set, gone through weeks of formalities, consisting of page upon page of business law and general law. All of it obligatory, watertight, and binding. If not, it could have legal consequences, and it does have legal consequences and is binding in a serious way you wouldn't understand unless you've worked with law. I have. I do. All angles and scenarios are covered, all consequences for all parties are described. The boundaries set legally are crossed by no one, the obligations described, crossed by no one. Otherwise, there are consequences.

So, what did you, the customers, get? You customers, on the other hand, got four pledges that are as valuable as promises children make when they say they won't do something again. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You've been given hot air with an expiration date whenever Canva sees fit, and as times change. Times change, you know that.

You even got these four promises after Serif and Canva realized that the customers were indeed not buying the unprofessional and unoriginal PR spin about the takeover. So, the next day, you got some promises as if you were children.

There you have Canva (and Serif too) - neither professional nor creative work has been exposed to you during this short acquisition. And it guarantees uncertainty in the near and distant future. Especially for you, the customers.

Don't be like children, people - pledges are WORTH NOTHING.

[gnorf]

578 / 5.000

Probably a good decision for the Affinity team itself. Nothing good for the Affinity Suite itself and its users. Affinity was just far too good to be able to exist independently for any longer.

 

Will be the same result as with Micrografx Designer, which was bought by Corel in 2001.

 

The software has disappeared from the market and I have been experimenting with compatibility modes for years to keep the software running on newer operating systems for as long as possible.

 

Until I finally found a worthy successor: Affinity.