Affinity V2, updates, pricing and no subscription (moved)

[kirloi]

I just want to say, first hi affinity family. I'm a new member! Just gonna give my two cents about this whole drama being outside. It is what it is.

I've been following affinity since inception, but never bought it. Even tho i recommend it i wasnt in a position to buy it. Once I saw the re-edit of the apps even tho there wasnt much new new features i knew this only could meant great things are coming. *I hope*. And im taking you on your word @Ash. I bought it after 2hours trying the trials. And since i knew the software i since can say replacing the one that shall not be named is at 95% with 4 features i'll maybe write here in the future that I find extremely lacking for a professional set as my own. (Im a 2D 3D designer, also code and work with tradicional design agencies).

So given that. I can tell you guys I maybe the odd one out but I legit use the 3 softwares at work (Win, Mac, iOS) so for me this software at 120€ for 3 diff OS's seams a steal and I feel bad paying so little. So ill be sure to be more supportive in the future.
Althought im not an early adopter, and I cant talk about how you *the ones that are complaining the most*, the price of the apps, the license, even if you buy it separate, as no competition whatsoever. So i agree when everyone feels kind of betrayed for the same price for everyone, the lack of communication but this is what serif as to work on: communication. You hear me @Ash !
Tho for me personally seeing many complaining about prices when - however u see it - are super competitive , felt a bit of bad taste. But guess thats the consequence of bad communication and not actions. Cus the software price for function seems fair, even given that minor updates are free.

For me personally i'd pay 40, 30 20% at lunch of major revisions without a blink for it and embrace that new users can use our dedication to enter the family. Making this about you *the ones that are complaining the most*, is just selfish... you want a company to thrive not to cater to a niche.

Thats my lil rant given all i saw. But feel free to put me in my place.

Anyway, hope everyone can at the end of the day, not see it for the money, and see it as new members floading in helping to get more funding to keep this project running.

P.S. i for one convinced my boss to buy the whole pack for himself even tho he only gonna use Photo from day to day on a mac.

Edited November 18, 2022 by kirloi

[IPv6]

Since offended users are generally more vocal than happy customers - here my 5 cents on pricing issue... Serif introduced quite a reasonable start price and general approach. Will happily pay full price AGAIN for V3, when time comes, since application definitely worth the price. Although hoping some of longstanding papercuts (from personal point of view, of cource) will be ironed out during V2 cycle ( more here - https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/171397-list-of-longstanding-papercuts-afphoto/ )

Thanks for Affinity Suite! It is very helpful and capable software.

 

[Cantisani]

1 minute ago, IPv6 said:

Since offended users are generally more vocal than happy customers - here my 5 cents on pricing issue... Serif introduced quite a reasonable start price and approach.
Will happily pay full price again for V3, when time comes, since application definitely worth the price. Although hoping some of longstanding papercuts (from personal point of view, of cource) will be ironed out during V2 cycle ( more here - https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/171397-list-of-longstanding-papercuts-afphoto/ )

Thanks for Affinity Suite! It is very helpful and capable software.

 

Agree. You can hear a lot of crying, but you can’t hear the smiles. 

So, +1 smile here.

[BigGandalf]

 @debraspicher

Yes I seen that, it's a bit misleading though, if your promised lifetime updates, I'd expect at least 2 years. Imo They should release v2 and keep full updates for v1 for 2 years, then stop all updates on v1. Or if you purchased v1 less than a year or 2 then offer a more discounted price or be given other options.

It just don't feel right, it's not that I can't afford it, it's just the principle, I feel violated. Also I'm wondering if it's legal. Hope that makes sense.

[debraspicher]

7 minutes ago, BigGandalf said:

 @debraspicher

Yes I seen that, it's a bit misleading though, if your promised lifetime updates, I'd expect at least 2 years. Imo They should release v2 and keep full updates for v1 for 2 years, then stop all updates on v1. Or if you purchased v1 less than a year or 2 then offer a more discounted price or be given other options.

It just don't feel right, it's not that I can't afford it, it's just the principle, I feel violated. Also I'm wondering if it's legal. Hope that makes sense.

I agree. I've seen other companies use this language (No excuse). I feel like there must've been another update model that this was opposition to, ie companies requiring payment for any updates, because I've never understood how this wording can do anything but mislead. I think it should be made crystal clear, if anything to protect staff from dealing with angry customers.

[debraspicher]

15 minutes ago, Cantisani said:

Agree. You can hear a lot of crying, but you can’t hear the smiles. 

So, +1 smile here.

It's always better to try to smile. Doesn't matter the situation.

(When I can't cope, I watch Harry&Meghan videos to recover.)

[Cantisani]

I’m sick of the crying and moaning. Unsubscribing. 

Thanks Serif, will upgrade to universal license before offer ends.

Keep it up guys, you must be aware there a lot more happy users than those complaining, just by the cheer number of licenses sold so far. It’s just that crying is a loud activity.

[BigGandalf]

5 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

I agree. I've seen other companies use this language (No excuse). I feel like there must've been another update model that this was opposition to, ie companies requiring payment for any updates, because I've never understood how this wording can do anything but mislead. I think it should be made crystal clear, if anything to protect staff from dealing with angry customers.

Yes then assuming we're jealous of v2 update which doesn't seem a major update to me, sometimes there too proud and stuck up on there own products to even care for its customers, I've left a company before because of it. My number 1 favourite thing with any company is its excellent customer relations. I'm not angry now, was mainly shocked in how its been dealt with. 

[Komatös]

What means lifetime by a software product? It means lifetime ends if there is a new main version. So Affinity suite V1 is EndOfLive.

Adobe didn't feel sorry for their customers when they released a new version. Yes, there were discounted upgrades. But at that time there was no Apple Store/Microsoft Store. So Adobe could verify exactly who was eligible to update and who was not. At that time, customers who had purchased the software less than 90 days ago were eligible for updates.

My recommendation: 
If you have recently bought version 1 of the Affinity programmes from Apple or Microsoft, you can ask them if you can get a discount on V2. 

 

[Designer1234]

3 hours ago, BigGandalf said:

Yes I seen that, it's a bit misleading though, if your promised lifetime updates, I'd expect at least 2 years. Imo They should release v2 and keep full updates for v1 for 2 years, then stop all updates on v1. Or if you purchased v1 less than a year or 2 then offer a more discounted price or be given other options.

Perhaps they should just clarify that they guarantee "free updates of v1/v2 etc." - especially that customers don't understand what "lifetime" means, It's not about their lives but the product life  

[gurkanerol]

I love the cat, but I think you killed it. It's not nice to say it's forcing us as financing, since you weren't so idealistic. I feel cheated. You know, we were going to buy it once in a lifetime. The explanation is very commercial. You know, your job was just to offer tools suitable for designers. The little adobe I saw is ahh ah

[Jamesx1]

Sadly, there are few places where I have seen more entitlement. Imagine if that energy was spent building a profitable business such that this tiny cost would not even enter your mind. But that thinking is what separates those at the top from the rest.

Anyway, a couple of points:

- Studio Link - It's awesome. Try to live without it....

- It sounds like a lot of people have never dealt with Adode support before. Serif provides white-glove/silver service compared to Adobe. Adobe literally have the most useless, incompetent, clueless support I have encountered in my life. They still charge the earth though.

- Happy to pay for the upgrade. But I do like the 'asset bundle' gift gesture, as a little something for V1 users, whenever. May I suggest a really nice bunch of professional icon sets?

[Terkoz]

Wow just wow. I have been floored with some of the comments from people here lately. The complaints about having to be inconvenienced forking out for version 2.0. Did ver 1.0 stop working and no one told me? And the expectation that work on ver 1 was going to continue? Why should it? Now I am 57 and have been working with computers and software since the 80's. For decades when you bought a software package.. that was it.. you installed it and used it for several years. No updates with bug fixes. You just learned to work around them. If the next version in a couple of years time didn't have anything that you needed you skipped it and kept working with what you had. Do you upgrade your car with every model? Does your current one stop getting you to work once it is no longer the newest model?

Affinity is a company just like any other. Every week it has to pay wages, rent, etc, etc, etc, not to mention pay it's investers a dividend as well to keep the business attractive to them. As long as there are sufficient new customers every week they can survive without bringing out a new version but like any product there comes a saturation point where they need a new influx of cash to keep going. They need to predict this point so that they can focus development of a new version. This has been going on with every damn piece of software since the first computer. Why is it suddenly now people have an issue with it. I mean it's been 8 years for crying out loud since version 1.0

Now strictly speaking I don't "need" the new features but in this instance I bought 2.0 because I wanted to support Affinity and to help ensure they can keep going and keep making the software I need. This does not mean I will do this every version. In a few years time I may not have any need to upgrade and I won't.

The only semi legit complaint is the way they are handling the upgrading. There is a way to handle it (I'll show bellow) but I also respect the way they attempted to fix it by giving everyone a 40% discount. So someone who didn't buy 1.0 also gets it? Big deal. That's not hurting me any.

As to upgrades. The easiest way is selling two different licenses. A full license and an upgrade one at appropriate price levels. Then during the install process if someone enters an upgrade code the program then asks for a second code for the previous version. That way it does not matter which store the person buys the code from.

[brianparker]

For me as an existing V1 customer I was more than happy to take the V2 offer as it also enabled Affinity on Windows and Publisher on the iPad for what I consider a very reasonable price. I would have upgraded anyway but these additions made it easy and I'm excited to see development and growth in a viable alternative to the Adobe subscription model for creative products.

[awakenedbyowls]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:54 PM, Ash said:

we will offer a new free bundle of content exclusively for V1 customers upgrading to V2 as an extra thank you for your support

And these are? 

Do they apply to folk who only bought some or one version?

[ByteC]

Thank you for this clarification Ash!

Getting a bonus voucher for upgrading existing customers is fine and truly appreciated, it doesn't need more at least for me.

About subscription:

I don't like subs, I will only stay aboard as long as I can buy perpetual upgrades. This is the major reason I dropped Adobe, Substance and now Marvelous designer.

I'm aware about all your mentioned problems, I'm being part of a small sw/hw developer team too. There are several ways out, ad hoc:

What I would do: Offering the model you have now, offer some sort of maintenance contract, keep the contractors up to date (V2, V3, .. V99 :)) as long the maintenance is active. (We have such contracts running for our compilers over the last ~30 years). So we could support your ongoing projects without losing our perpetual licenses, and you have an additional permanent cash flow. Another way could be some sort of fund.affinity.com. I support Blender fund monthly, exact for some reasons you've mentioned above.

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

[Artsketch]

31 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

And these are? 

Trash bin & check boxes?

[GeRo]

6 hours ago, Terkoz said:

pay it's investers a dividend

Since when, please?

[awakenedbyowls]

You know what I think would be a good offer for existing customers?

The ability to buy part of it. If I bought the full V2 I'd only end up using Designer 99% of the time and Photo 1% - I just don't have a need for Publisher - so I'd be paying more or less the same as if I just bought Designer and Photo on Windows and iPad (on this deal)

So if I could just buy maybe those two products for my needs at 2/3 of the V2 suite then it would be a greater incentive? (of course it would because then it's even cheaper)

It just feels like I'm being forced to buy a part of the suite I don't want. I know the prices are already low - it's just a thought.

[henryg]

6 hours ago, Terkoz said:

As to upgrades. The easiest way is selling two different licenses. A full license and an upgrade one at appropriate price levels. Then during the install process if someone enters an upgrade code the program then asks for a second code for the previous version. That way it does not matter which store the person buys the code from

Agreed.

I have no problem with the charge for V2, but it doesn't offer enough (anything?) for me to upgrade as a non-professional user. An upgrade path would allow me to choose when/if to upgrade rather than being bulldozed by the 14 December offer date end.

[awakenedbyowls]

14 minutes ago, ByteC said:

Thank you for this clarification Ash!

Getting a bonus voucher for upgrading existing customers is fine and truly appreciated, it doesn't need more at least for me.

Bonus voucher? 

Still unclear as to what "free bundle of content" V1 > V2 upgraders are getting..

[Jimo]

14 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

Still unclear as to what "free bundle of content" V1 > V2 upgraders are getting..

I don't think they've announced what that is yet.

My guess (and it IS just a guess) is that it will be a brushes or a font set or something along those lines.

[awakenedbyowls]

10 minutes ago, Jimo said:

I don't think they've announce what that is yet.

My guess (and it IS just a guess) is that it will be a brushes or a font set or something along those lines.

That's what I was thinking - a free wafer thin mint with the hotel suite

[PaulEC]

Great: so, now a free gift has been mentioned, I suppose we’ll have endless complaints about it not being good enough, or (depending how it works) some people not getting better free gifts than others! 

[jimdoria]

Came here looking for upgrade pricing but honestly I was thinking as I did so "$99 for the whole shebang? How much better can they DO?" The cost-benefit ratio for Affinity is already so high. I'm not surprised there's no "special" upgrade price. The launch offer is fine.

Just wanted to say that the option of buying vs. subscribing is huge and I'm so glad Affinity hasn't gone to a subscription model. It's a major benefit as far as I'm concerned to be able to use what you paid for without having to continue to pay for it.

So if the cost of that is the inevitable inequity between recent buyers and distant past buyers, I personally think that's a small price to pay. I bought all the Affinity apps a few years ago, bought Publisher for my wife earlier this year. Both purchases have been equally valuable for us. New versions mean you pay for upgrades, whatever time it is, or you stay with the version you have if you don't see enough benefit to warrant the new expense, which with Serif is at least an available option. Either way, once you've decided the software is valuable and purchased it, the expense is a sunk cost. I don't see why what other people paid even comes into it.