Miratek Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Hey guys, I'm thinking about buying all three affinity softwares but I can't get any more details about what I exactly buy. In the internet it sometimes says that I'm only going to get updates until the next major release (e.g. 2.0) but I can't find any information on that on the website! In the product description it only says that updates are going to get automatically released for you when there's a new version and that I only have to pay once. So if I buy the software now I would have legal claim for lifetime updates cause it's not further explained there, right? I think that has to be shown better to make it more clear. Greetings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted March 12, 2020 Staff Share Posted March 12, 2020 Hi Miratek, Welcome to Affinity Forums All "minor" updates (1.8, 1.9 etc) are free until the next major upgrade (2.0, 3.0 etc) which is/are paid. We wouldn't be able to keep Serif running if we provided lifetime upgrades/updates. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miratek Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, MEB said: Hi Miratek, Welcome to Affinity Forums All "minor" updates (1.8, 1.9 etc) are free until the next major upgrade (2.0, 3.0 etc) which is/are paid. Thanks! But where does it say that? I mean it must be contractually written down somewhere. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Patrick Connor Posted March 12, 2020 Staff Share Posted March 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, Miratek said: In the product description it only says that updates are going to get automatically released for you when there's a new version and that I only have to pay once. That is unhelpful phrasing. Where have you seen this please? It is confusing and needs changing. I can only see this (and this and this) Quote No Subscription—Free to Try, One Price to Buy No subscription charges! Designed for pros, priced for all designers Buy through the Affinity Store, Mac App Store or Windows Store Updates available as we improve which does not mention new versions, and is true for our current 1.x policy. Patches is not a sufficient word to describe the new features we have been adding and updates does them more justice. Quote Patrick Connor Serif Europe Ltd Latest V2 releases on each platform Help make our apps better by joining our beta program! "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self." W. L. Sheldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Patrick Connor Posted March 12, 2020 Staff Share Posted March 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Miratek said: But where does it say that? It does not mention 2.0 because it does not exist yet, and mentioning it in marketing material would raise expectations that it exists. We simply tell you what is true about what you can buy now. 53 minutes ago, Miratek said: ....I would have legal claim for lifetime updates... We have never claimed "lifetime updates", that is your interpretation and would need testing but I think our explanation here is clear and would stand. However, the 1.x software you buy is yours to own for a lifetime (I would suggest everyone keep a backup of the install and save the product key) Quote Patrick Connor Serif Europe Ltd Latest V2 releases on each platform Help make our apps better by joining our beta program! "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self." W. L. Sheldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miratek Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said: That is unhelpful phrasing. Where have you seen this please? It is confusing and needs changing. I can only see this (and this and this) which does not mention new versions, and is true for our current 1.x policy. Patches is not a sufficient word to describe the new features we have been adding and updates does them more justice. Thanks for your reply! On the german site, it says: "Updates werden automatisch verfügbar, wenn wir neue Features hinzufügen oder bestehende Features erweitern." which means "Updates are automatically available when we add new features or extend existing features." That confused me cause there's no limitation mentioned for the future. If I read that I suppose that there's no limit, ever. (Also in combination with the headline "No Subscription—Free to Try, One Price to Buy" or translated from the german site: "buy only once") Edited March 12, 2020 by Miratek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Move Along People Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 - Patrick Connor 1 Quote Move Along people,nothing to see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Patrick Connor Posted March 12, 2020 Staff Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Miratek said: which means "Updates are automatically available when we add new features or extend existing features." Well that is not great, is that on the link I gave or somewhere else? link please Quote Patrick Connor Serif Europe Ltd Latest V2 releases on each platform Help make our apps better by joining our beta program! "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self." W. L. Sheldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miratek Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Patrick Connor said: Well that is not great, is that on the link I gave or somewhere else? link please Yes, it's mentioned on https://affinity.serif.com/de/photo/full-feature-list/ Patrick Connor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Patrick Connor Posted March 12, 2020 Staff Share Posted March 12, 2020 So it does. The words are true, but not helpful to clarify when 2.0 is subsequently sold. 6 minutes ago, haakoo said: put in an addendum where it states that the 2.xxxx ,3.xxxx,.... Yup. Move Along People 1 Quote Patrick Connor Serif Europe Ltd Latest V2 releases on each platform Help make our apps better by joining our beta program! "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self." W. L. Sheldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zocky Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Support, I'm also contemplating on buying all three tools and the workbook. I understand incremental updates are included, however what is the cost of major updates (2.0. 3.0, etc..) to existing users? Thank you. Kind regards, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aammppaa Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Nobody knows because there has never been a major upgrade! Serif have also been very generous throughout the 1.x cycle with frequent sales and offers (just look at the current 50% off!), so I have no doubt they will look after their customers when the time comes. I would also anticipate at least one further update in the 1.x cycle. Quote Win10 Home x64 | AMD Ryzen 7 2700X @ 3.7GHz | 48 GB RAM | 1TB SSD | nVidia GTX 1660 | Wacom Intuos Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl123 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Serif has also hinted that there may be a bundle price when version 2.0 arrives, which will help users that have purchased multiple products. They also said that anyone with more than 3,577 posts on this forum will be entitled to a free upgrade to version 2.0 j3rry, R C-R, jmwellborn and 7 others 10 Quote To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwellborn Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 @carl123 “words, words, words.” Guess I will never make it. markw 1 Quote 24" iMAC Apple M1 chip, 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU, 16 GB unified memory, 1 TB SSD storage, Ventura 13.6. Photo, Publisher, Designer 1.10.5, and 2.3. MacBook Pro 13" 2020, Apple M1 chip, 16GB unified memory, 256GB SSD storage, Ventura 13.6. Publisher, Photo, Designer 1.10.5, and 2.1.1. iPad Pro 12.9 2020 (4th Gen. IOS 16.6.1); Apple pencil. Wired and bluetooth mice and keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 hour ago, jmwellborn said: @carl123 “words, words, words.” Guess I will never make it. Same here! jmwellborn 1 Quote macOS 10.15.7 | 15" Macbook Pro, 2017 | 4 Core i7 3.1GHz CPU | Radeon Pro 555 2GB GPU + Integrated Intel HD Graphics 630 1.536GB | 16GB RAM | Wacom Intuos4 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLShutterbug Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 My suggestion for wording: 'Our current policy for so-called "dot-release" updates, i.e.: for any 1.x to 1.y update, is that there is no charge for these updates for purchasers of the underlying major version. 'New-purchase and upgrade pricing for major version upgrades, i.e. from version 1.x to version 2.x, will be announced at the time of each major version's introduction. 'Serif reserves the right to change their pricing policies, including whether or not to charge either for dot-release or major-version upgrades, at any time.' This wording is clear and unambiguous. The fact that Serif hasn't introduced a 2.x product yet doesn't prevent you from creating and publishing a policy today about pricing. I think everyone realizes that companies review pricing frequently and occasionally change those policies. Adobe is a pertinent case in point. rt-it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 11 hours ago, carl123 said: They also said that anyone with more than 3,577 posts on this forum will be entitled to a free upgrade to version 2.0 It follows that anyone with 10,734 or more posts will be entitled to three free upgrades! MikeW, jmwellborn and markw 3 Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bruce Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Alfred said: It follows that anyone with 10,734 or more posts will be entitled to three free upgrades! Is this for on topic posts or total? Say I post 10,733 topics on Photo and one each to Publisher and Designer will I qualify for all three or none after two upgrades? Also I was posting before Publisher was released do those count? ... ... Oh, I think you folks are having some fun. I am going to be in trouble in a week and a half. jmwellborn, firstdefence and Alfred 3 Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 Affinity Designer 2.4.1 | Affinity Photo 2.4.1 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.1 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNKLN Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 12 hours ago, PLShutterbug said: Our current policy for so-called "dot-release" updates, i.e.: for any 1.x to 1.y update, is that there is no charge for these updates for purchasers of the underlying major version. From their past behaviour it's already clear that the dot-releases of version 1 come without charge. In my case it means that, after having purchased Affinity Designer in October 2014, I've been able to use this software for a rate of approx. €0.018 per day (€0.55 per month) while it has always stayed current. Not a bad deal. Oval and Patrick Connor 1 1 Quote Affinity Photo - Affinity Designer - Affinity Publisher | macOS Sonoma (14.2) on 16GB MBP14 2021 with 2.4 versions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 For the wording, I think it would be sufficient to say that all version 1 updates are included in the one-time purchase price, & that the prices for version 2 & beyond will not be set until they are ready to be released. CanRau and jmwellborn 2 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwellborn Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, R C-R said: For the wording, I think it would be sufficient to say that all version 1 updates are included in the one-time purchase price, & that the prices for version 2 & beyond will not be set until they are ready to be released. Party pooper.😏 Quote 24" iMAC Apple M1 chip, 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU, 16 GB unified memory, 1 TB SSD storage, Ventura 13.6. Photo, Publisher, Designer 1.10.5, and 2.3. MacBook Pro 13" 2020, Apple M1 chip, 16GB unified memory, 256GB SSD storage, Ventura 13.6. Publisher, Photo, Designer 1.10.5, and 2.1.1. iPad Pro 12.9 2020 (4th Gen. IOS 16.6.1); Apple pencil. Wired and bluetooth mice and keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Patrick Connor Posted March 24, 2020 Staff Share Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/23/2020 at 12:59 PM, R C-R said: For the wording, I think it would be sufficient to say that all version 1 updates are included in the one-time purchase price, & that the prices for version 2 & beyond will not be set until they are ready to be released. That is sort of what we have said, but it has not proven to be sufficient (for some) as it does not explicitly say that version 1 will continue to work as-is after version 2 is released and that version 2 is optional. I know what you mean by "one-time purchase" but others do not, for 2 reasons: #1 we have already released 5 years worth of new features since launch; and #2 Adobe and others have confused the market about software ownership. On 3/22/2020 at 6:07 PM, PLShutterbug said: 'Our current policy for so-called "dot-release" updates, i.e.: for any 1.x to 1.y update, is that there is no charge for these updates for purchasers of the underlying major version. 'New-purchase and upgrade pricing for major-version upgrades, i.e. from version 1.x to version 2.x, will be announced at the time of each major version's introduction. I like this Quote 'Serif reserves the right to change their pricing policies, including whether or not to charge either for dot-release or major-version upgrades, at any time.' That just serves to worry and confuse that we may charge for a 1.9 over 1.8, I would prefer just the first two lines, or this modified third line. Quote 'Serif reserves the right to change the pricing policies at any time, excluding whether or not to charge for dot release upgrades.' I realize by not including the 3rd line it stops us changing our mind about charging for 2.x from 2.y but that seems like a fair price to pay to put peoples minds at rest of 1.9 over 1.8 Quote Patrick Connor Serif Europe Ltd Latest V2 releases on each platform Help make our apps better by joining our beta program! "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self." W. L. Sheldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said: That is sort of what we have said, but it has not proven to be sufficient (for some) as it does not explicitly say that version 1 will continue to work as-is after version 2 is released and that version 2 is optional. I think it best to avoid saying that version 1 will continue to work as-is unless Serif is committed to updating all the V1 versions as needed to work with any & all future OS versions, which otherwise might at some point make them incompatible with those future OS versions. For Mac (& iPadOS) users this might be an important distinction because as I am sure you know newer Macs (& iPads) will not in general run OS versions released before those devices were released. jmwellborn 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwellborn Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Really excellent point @R C-R! The howls of anguish would probably be legion from people who bought new hardware. Which reminds me, could you tell me how you have fared with upgrading to Mojave? I am desperately clinging to Sierra because everything works so seamlessly, but sooner or later Apple is going to deep-six supporting my compatible Safari. Quote 24" iMAC Apple M1 chip, 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU, 16 GB unified memory, 1 TB SSD storage, Ventura 13.6. Photo, Publisher, Designer 1.10.5, and 2.3. MacBook Pro 13" 2020, Apple M1 chip, 16GB unified memory, 256GB SSD storage, Ventura 13.6. Publisher, Photo, Designer 1.10.5, and 2.1.1. iPad Pro 12.9 2020 (4th Gen. IOS 16.6.1); Apple pencil. Wired and bluetooth mice and keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junovhs Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 People expecting *lifetime* updates on a $50 purchase... you like new stuff right? Nothing just materializes out of the air, it takes work. Work is paid for. Wosven, herrkjeldsen and angelhdz12 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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