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Miratek

Unlimited or limited updates - where's the information?

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Hey guys,

I'm thinking about buying all three affinity softwares but I can't get any more details about what I exactly buy.

In the internet it sometimes says that I'm only going to get updates until the next major release (e.g. 2.0) but I can't find any information on that on the website!

In the product description it only says that updates are going to get automatically released for you when there's a new version and that I only have to pay once.

So if I buy the software now I would have legal claim for lifetime updates cause it's not further explained there, right?

I think that has to be shown better to make it more clear.

 

Greetings!

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8 minutes ago, MEB said:

Hi Miratek,
Welcome to Affinity Forums :)
All "minor" updates (1.8, 1.9 etc) are free until the next major upgrade (2.0, 3.0 etc) which is/are paid.

Thanks! But where does it say that? I mean it must be contractually written down somewhere. 🙂

 

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49 minutes ago, Miratek said:

In the product description it only says that updates are going to get automatically released for you when there's a new version and that I only have to pay once.

That is unhelpful phrasing. Where have you seen this please? It is confusing and needs changing.

I can only see this (and this and this)

Quote

No Subscription—Free to Try, One Price to Buy

  • No subscription charges! Designed for pros, priced for all designers
  • Buy through the Affinity Store, Mac App Store or Windows Store
  • Updates available as we improve

which does not mention new versions, and is true for our current 1.x policy. Patches is not a sufficient word to describe the new features we have been adding and updates does them more justice.


Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

Latest releases on each platform 

 

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28 minutes ago, Miratek said:

But where does it say that?

It does not mention 2.0 because it does not exist yet, and mentioning it in marketing material would raise expectations that it exists. We simply tell you what is true about what you can buy now.

53 minutes ago, Miratek said:

....I would have legal claim for lifetime updates...

We have never claimed "lifetime updates", that is your interpretation and would need testing but I think our explanation here is clear and would stand. However, the 1.x software you buy is yours to own for a lifetime :);)  (I would suggest everyone keep a backup of the install and save the product key)


Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

Latest releases on each platform 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

That is unhelpful phrasing. Where have you seen this please? It is confusing and needs changing.

I can only see this (and this and this)

which does not mention new versions, and is true for our current 1.x policy. Patches is not a sufficient word to describe the new features we have been adding and updates does them more justice.

Thanks for your reply!

On the german site, it says:

"Updates werden automatisch verfügbar, wenn wir neue Features hinzufügen oder bestehende Features erweitern."

which means "Updates are automatically available when we add new features or extend existing features."

That confused me cause there's no limitation mentioned for the future. If I read that I suppose that there's no limit, ever.
(Also in combination with the headline "No Subscription—Free to Try, One Price to Buy" or translated from the german site: "buy only once")

Edited by Miratek

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@Patrick Connor
One could argue that the "Free to try,One price to buy" may seem a lifetime buy.
You could however put in an addendum where it states that the 2.xxxx ,3.xxxx,............. versions will be paid upgrades and that a bought version could run indefinitely without the need to upgrade but one wouldn't benefit from all the added features to the upgrade versions and it would run "as is".

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Support,

I'm also contemplating on buying all three tools and the workbook. I understand incremental updates are included, however what is the cost of major updates (2.0. 3.0, etc..) to existing users? Thank you.

Kind regards,

Michael

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Nobody knows because there has never been a major upgrade!

Serif have also been very generous throughout the 1.x cycle with frequent sales and offers (just look at the current 50% off!), so I have no doubt they will look after their customers when the time comes.

I would also anticipate at least one further update in the 1.x cycle.


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Serif has also hinted that there may be a bundle price when version 2.0 arrives, which will help users that have purchased multiple products. They also said that anyone with more than 3,577 posts on this forum will be entitled to a free upgrade to version 2.0


Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be worried about.

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@carl123  “words, words, words.” Guess I will never make it.


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1 hour ago, jmwellborn said:

@carl123  “words, words, words.” Guess I will never make it.

Same here!


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My suggestion for wording:

'Our current policy for so-called "dot-release" updates, i.e.: for any 1.x  to 1.y update, is that there is no charge for these updates for purchasers of the underlying major version.

'New-purchase and upgrade pricing for major version upgrades, i.e. from version 1.x to version 2.x, will be announced at the time of each major version's introduction.

'Serif reserves the right to change their pricing policies, including whether or not to charge either for dot-release or major-version upgrades, at any time.'

This wording is clear and unambiguous.

The fact that Serif hasn't introduced a 2.x product yet doesn't prevent you from creating and publishing a policy today about pricing. I think everyone realizes that companies review pricing frequently and occasionally change those policies. Adobe is a pertinent case in point.

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11 hours ago, carl123 said:

They also said that anyone with more than 3,577 posts on this forum will be entitled to a free upgrade to version 2.0

It follows that anyone with 10,734 or more posts will be entitled to three free upgrades!


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.8.4.186 • Designer for iPad 1.8.4.4 • iPadOS 13.7 (iPad Air 2)

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3 hours ago, Alfred said:

It follows that anyone with 10,734 or more posts will be entitled to three free upgrades!

Is this for on topic posts or total? Say I post 10,733 topics on Photo and one each to Publisher and Designer will I qualify for all three or none after two upgrades? Also I was posting before Publisher was released do those count?

...

...

Oh, I think you folks are having some fun. I am going to be in trouble in a week and a half. 


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12 hours ago, PLShutterbug said:

Our current policy for so-called "dot-release" updates, i.e.: for any 1.x  to 1.y update, is that there is no charge for these updates for purchasers of the underlying major version.

From their past behaviour it's already clear that the dot-releases of version 1 come without charge. In my case it means that, after having purchased Affinity Designer in October 2014, I've been able to use this software for a rate of approx. €0.018 per day (€0.55 per month) while it has always stayed current. Not a bad deal.


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For the wording, I think it would be sufficient to say that all version 1 updates are included in the one-time purchase price, & that the prices for version 2 & beyond will not be set until they are ready to be released.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
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2 hours ago, R C-R said:

For the wording, I think it would be sufficient to say that all version 1 updates are included in the one-time purchase price, & that the prices for version 2 & beyond will not be set until they are ready to be released.

Party pooper.😏


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On 3/23/2020 at 12:59 PM, R C-R said:

For the wording, I think it would be sufficient to say that all version 1 updates are included in the one-time purchase price, & that the prices for version 2 & beyond will not be set until they are ready to be released.

That is sort of what we have said, but it has not proven to be sufficient (for some) as it does not explicitly say that version 1 will continue to work as-is after version 2 is released and that version 2 is optional. I know what you mean by "one-time purchase" but others do not, for 2 reasons: #1 we have already released 5 years worth of new features since launch; and #2 Adobe and others have confused the market about software ownership.

On 3/22/2020 at 6:07 PM, PLShutterbug said:

'Our current policy for so-called "dot-release" updates, i.e.: for any 1.x  to 1.y update, is that there is no charge for these updates for purchasers of the underlying major version.

'New-purchase and upgrade pricing for major-version upgrades, i.e. from version 1.x to version 2.x, will be announced at the time of each major version's introduction.

I like this

Quote

'Serif reserves the right to change their pricing policies, including whether or not to charge either for dot-release or major-version upgrades, at any time.'

That just serves to worry and confuse that we may charge for a 1.9 over 1.8, I would prefer just the first two lines, or this modified third line.

Quote

'Serif reserves the right to change the pricing policies at any time, excluding whether or not to charge for dot release upgrades.'

I realize by not including the 3rd line it stops us changing our mind about charging for 2.x from 2.y but that seems like a fair price to pay to put peoples minds at rest of 1.9 over 1.8


Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

Latest releases on each platform 

 

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1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said:

That is sort of what we have said, but it has not proven to be sufficient (for some) as it does not explicitly say that version 1 will continue to work as-is after version 2 is released and that version 2 is optional.

I think it best to avoid saying that version 1 will continue to work as-is unless Serif is committed to updating all the V1 versions as needed to work with any & all future OS versions, which otherwise might at some point make them incompatible with those future OS versions.

For Mac (& iPadOS) users this might be an important distinction because as I am sure you know newer Macs (& iPads) will not in general run OS versions released before those devices were released.


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1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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Really excellent point @R C-R!   The howls of anguish would probably be legion from people who bought new hardware.   Which reminds me, could you tell me how you have fared with upgrading to Mojave?   I am desperately clinging to Sierra because everything works so seamlessly, but sooner or later Apple is going to deep-six supporting my compatible Safari.     


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