Bugs across Affinity Suite

[ronnyb]

The most important update needed in the Affinity suite is FIXING OLD BUGS. For working professionals the most important software trait is stability and the app working as intended. I don’t care about nor want to see more new features until as many updates as necessary are spent simply fixing all the existing bugs currently breaking the software, which, when taken together, erode one’s ability to work continuously in the suite… 

For example, there is a rendering bug in the app’s engine when using translucent colors, which prevents exporting, so one is forced to use inaccurate screen grabs as FINAL output! Imagine trying to resize your exports using the viewers Zoom factor. This SUCKS!

Ignoring these types of bugs, specially basic ones inherent in the main rendering engine, are simply unacceptable and very frustrating, after YEARS of bug reporting!

Please@Ash I BEG YOU, seriously address the present boatload of bugs before releasing ANY NEW FEATURES!

Thanks for all you do. I LOVE the suite, but the bugs are killing us!

[loukash]

+3,000,000!

[bbrother]

Dear God, I didn't though there would come a time that I would agree to refrain implement new functionalities for some time, because I am still waiting for so many things. But I agree with the OP. Please hire more developers with extensive experience and start dealing in serious with the bugs. 

Too often you release half-baked features with lots of bugs and weak algorithms. It's not about everything being tip-top from the first implementation, but the quality during the development process must be significantly improved.

+ 4,000,000 

[Intuos5]

I'm still adding new pages and manually reflowing the text and content, because I can't get Publisher to accept a master page change (apply master to page), nor delete pages = crash.

Zoom to real size is broken, so I can't preview my document the way it is printed.

Content gets pasted inside a masterpage layer when you have selected something on a page, which forces you to undo, click on another page, go back to the correct page and paste - or go to the move tool if you weren't, select the materpage layer in the layer panel, detach and move the pasted content out of the layer so you can edit the pasted object(s).

These are all critical bugs, which force me to do a lot of extra work. I really like what Affinity can do, but, if I am being honest here, using Affinity means I have to spend time on tedious workarounds and it's beyond annoying. Especially when some of these bugs were logged over a year ago and I continue to do these work arounds...

[Intuos5]

2 hours ago, bbrother said:

Too often you release half-baked features with lots of bugs and weak algorithms. It's not about everything being tip-top from the first implementation, but the quality during the development process must be significantly improved.

I always expect the new features to be ready in the follow-up release (the non-bug fix, but the feature release). Windows is especially lagging behind Apple with problems left unresolved.

[Bit Disappointed]

The truly compelling and stark question is: How much of your hard-earned savings would you wager with a bookmaker on the prospect of improvement or change under Canva? When all the free talk in this forum is to be transformed into action with potential and genuine repercussions? Your assertions should result in loss or gain, with nothing in between?

The numerous submissive pleas contained within, delicately and nervously wrapped in declarations of affection, have thus far not made a difference. You have now reached a point where you stand in an even more uncertain situation under Canva - like beggars with even more at stake.

I can assure you that all your talk has been read and understood by Serif over the years; it's just that it hasn't been acted upon in the way you've dreamed of for the past 10 years. How long will you emphasize a word before you doubt the effect of yet another emphasis?

I'm here working to finish projects in Designer, leveraging the strengths of the program (which derive from its initial releases, not much has changed), but I'm currently not starting any new ones. NOW, I damn well need to see results before renewing a license. Results in algorithms, usability, professionalism, and understanding of workflows.

[Affinityconfusesme]

I think they will continue to add new features, but I do agree that they need to fix much more bugs than currently do during the cycles. +10000000.

[ronnyb]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:22 PM, Bit Disappointed said:

The numerous submissive pleas contained within, delicately and nervously wrapped in declarations of affection, have thus far not made a difference. You have now reached a point where you stand in an even more uncertain situation under Canva - like beggars with even more at stake.

I can assure you that all your talk has been read and understood by Serif over the years; it's just that it hasn't been acted upon in the way you've dreamed of for the past 10 years. How long will you emphasize a word before you doubt the effect of yet another emphasis?

 

Dude..........  WTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? 🙄 

There are no "submissive pleas delicately and nervously wrapped in declarations of affection..." To put it kindly, that's an imaginatively distorted, mischaracterized projection, if I’ve ever seen one..

"You have now reached a point where you stand in an even more uncertain situation under Canva - like beggars with even more at stake." Ummm, NO! I'm actually quite optimistic about the Canva acquisition, as the influx of resources will help development...

"How long will you emphasize a word before you doubt the effect of yet another emphasis?" As long as I feel like it...

Are you some kind of paid troll sent by Adobe PR? Are you here to sow doubt and division? It certainly smells that way...

[Frozen Death Knight]

To me certain bug fixes and polishing of features are as significant as a brand new feature or tool. Photo specifically has the vast majority of the essentials that I already need, but certain features just need additional polish such as:

- Tablet pressure bugs

- GPU acceleration on Windows being buggy and slow on big canvases when compared to regular CPU

- Improvements to the Colour Picker Tool and making the tool settings global to every colour picker for power users (also needs a "Current Layer & Below" setting)

- Smoother lasso selections for the Freehand Selection Tool

- The Smudge Brush Tool transparency bug

- Pressure brushes with transparency on 8-bit canvases being very grainy compared to 16-bit and 32-bit because of no brush dithering feature available

- Merging layers not working on non-Pixel layers without rasterising beforehand (this is how Photoshop does it and is how it should always be working)

- Missing operators in certain contextual menus

- The lack of snapping support and a reset button back to centre of canvas/Artboard for the Symmetrize line

- Documents forgetting Groups and parent layers being opened or closed when launched on Windows

- The Transform socket for Links sometimes breaking placement

- Links sometimes breaking by doing certain actions such as rasterising with no option to re-link

- A better Links panel with a less convoluted way of linking attributes together for multiple objects

- More attributes that divide up the current ones we can link (should be able to do things such as link placement/scale/rotation/sheer only or just the Red/Blue/Green/Alpha channel)

- Dark UI being impossible to see which tool is being active on the toolbar

- The Paint Mixer Brush having no Stabilizer settings in the top toolbar despite being toggable with keyboard shortcuts

- Shortcuts missing for toggling certain settings on or off for specific tools (gotten a lot better, but one example would be the Sponge Brush Tool that can't toggle Saturate/Desaturate and Vibrance/HSL Saturation on the fly)

- No sticky settings for all tool settings (why should I have to set up Symmetrize settings for all brush tools every time I launch the program when I almost always use the exact same one?)

- Having to convert a layer to a Mask just to be able to create Intensity brushes with "New Brush from Selection" instead of giving the option to create either Intensity or Image brushes

- Not allowing drag and drop of gradients, images, and layers into the Colour panel swatches despite Affinity supporting the ability to paint with those under the hood since 2.0 if you know how to circumvent the limitation (an incredibly powerful feature that's not being taken advantage of)

- Improve the Lock feature for layers so it is more useful (arguably a new feature, but it would still be polishing up an already existing one)

- Support clipping masks for Groups like how Photoshop does it (old PSD files break because this doesn't exist and makes layer management more complicated)

- Poor anti-aliasing when rotating the canvas that aren't full 90 degree rotations

Those would make Affinity a lot more comfortable for me to draw in at least.

Edit: I'll also be fair and say that the devs have gotten significantly better at addressing annoyances like these ones over time. V2 has done a lot to fix longstanding issues I have had with multiple tools, like when the Crop Tool finally became feature complete by adding all the necessary shortcuts and quality of life features I would expect. I certainly hope that with the additional funding that we will start to see a lot of these annoyances finally getting the attention they need.

Affinity is a great software that can become even better through polish and care. It's far easier to look forward to brand new features once the already existing tools have become incredibly polished and easy to use.

[jmwellborn]

9 hours ago, ronnyb said:

Are you some kind of paid troll sent by Adobe PR? Are you here to sow doubt and division? It certainly smells that way...

it is the continual “there aren’t any professional designers here but me…”  subtext that makes me rather suspect junior high school.

[Intuos5]

18 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

- Improve the locking feature of layers so it is more useful (arguably a new feature, but it would still be polishing up an already existing one)

What would you like to see improved in particular? Should locked layers become unselectable, for instance?

18 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Edit: I'll also be fair and say that the devs have gotten significantly better at addressing annoyances like these ones over time. V2 has done a lot to fix longstanding issues I have had with multiple tools, like when the Crop Tool finally became feature complete by adding all the necessary shortcuts and quality of life features I would expect. I certainly hope that with the additional funding that we will start to see a lot of these annoyances finally getting the attention they need.

Affinity is a great software that can become even better through polish and care. It's far easier to look forward to brand new features once the already existing tools have become incredibly polished and easy to use.

I definitely agree, a lot of usability issues have been ironed out in the 2.X versions up to now. I just hope the rest could be sorted out in the remaining updates, rather than having to wait all the way for 3.0. 😉 

The problem is the compounding of bugs nowadays, rather than unfortunate usability decisions, which is good in a way and bad in another.

[ronnyb]

Another long-standing multi-year bug with the rendering engine pertains to compositing using the Passthrough blend mode. … these bugs seem foundational to a “graphics” suite…. Not usability, not UI, but basic fundamental functionality. How can you build anything great on a shaky foundation?

 

[Frozen Death Knight]

7 hours ago, Intuos5 said:

On 5/6/2024 at 4:57 PM, Frozen Death Knight said:

- Improve the locking feature of layers so it is more useful (arguably a new feature, but it would still be polishing up an already existing one)

What would you like to see improved in particular? Should locked layers become unselectable, for instance?

Being able to lock layer transparency, selection, transformation (current function + selection), brush edits, etc. Photoshop is the golden standard for this with all its locking features. Also, you still can't select multiple layers and lock/unlock them at once like you can do with the visibility toggle.

[ronnyb]

10 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Being able to lock layer transparency, selection, transformation (current function + selection), brush edits, etc. Photoshop is the golden standard for this with all its locking features. Also, you still can't select multiple layers and lock/unlock them at once like you can do with the visibility toggle.

While I appreciate these suggestions, these are improvements. My OP is about BUGS which are fundamental to the suite's stability.

[Intuos5]

12 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Also, you still can't select multiple layers and lock/unlock them at once like you can do with the visibility toggle.

You can do this already if you use the button in the layers panel or a keyboard shortcut.

 

 

 

[Frozen Death Knight]

10 hours ago, ronnyb said:

While I appreciate these suggestions, these are improvements. My OP is about BUGS which are fundamental to the suite's stability.

Well, there is a fine line between bug fixing and polishing of a feature. Some would argue that the Lock feature not actually locking edits on a layer to be a bug. It was at least something I reacted to when I switched over from Photoshop to Affinity Photo. Expanding the locking functionality would solve issues like that in this case.

[Frozen Death Knight]

8 hours ago, Intuos5 said:

You can do this already if you use the button in the layers panel or a keyboard shortcut.

 

 

 

 

It is still inconsistent UX behaviour when one toggle feature respects your layer selections (layer visibility) and one doesn't (layer locking). There is no real benefit to having multi-locking available only through the button at the top. The current design of locking also makes the Lock button kind of redundant because the icon automatically appears on every layer when hovering over them.

Another issue with the locks is that it isn't possible to click drag along the stack to be able to toggle multiple locks on or off like you can with visibility.

The Lock feature simply needs another pass by expanding the feature set that will give the top Lock button a purpose beyond what the current layer icons can already fill.

[PaulEC]

I always dislike comparing the old Plus range with Affinity, but it must be said that one of the biggest problems with Serif's old software was the way they kept adding "bells and whistles", (in the hope of persuading customers to buy new versions,) whilst the list of longstanding, and new, bugs just got longer and longer! The last version of PagePlus was so buggy that it was virtually unusable, until they finally agreed to issue a final patch just to get rid of the worst of them. I really hope that Affinity doesn't go the same way!

[debraspicher]

On 5/7/2024 at 5:08 AM, ronnyb said:

How can you build anything great on a shaky foundation?

They have to acknowledge there is an issue in the first place. I have zero faith in Serif at this point ever changing strategy. They have given no indicator the longstanding buglist is even a passing priority other than they've not been hard of hearing and are listening. Managing Director/CEO was in the Canva liveposting when a few of us brought up this exact discussion and when asked, there was no response. There have clearly been major problems going on with development for some time, especially for them to be acquired, so I just took this to mean go pound sand, silly user, you're addressing the elephant in the room. The positive chatter is just that: talk.

I had also brought up this issue in a beta thread I made in a previous beta cycle (probably archived). The response was along the lines of what could theoretically happen with bugfixes, which once again feeds into the speculative demons that plague this forum and breed pointless guesswork. This is an endless merry-go-round and not worth wasting one's time and energy on. The language has never changed surrounding this and "for future updates", thus kicking the can further down the road each time it is brought up. That's why I think there will never be a meaningful response.

The codebase as-is is not being fully supported if major bugs, especially workflow-related bugs, are not being addressed in a timely manner. All the while they are pushing hard on marketing of "new features" that have existed on other platforms for much longer, that are sure to create more fires without the hardening of that foundation you mention.

The marketing promises this platform to be "just as good" as the others, therefore trading off the impression of other high productivity software on the market (that actually delivers on optimization), again with the leading language of the management…:

Quote

We believe Affinity is the highest-quality professional-grade design suite on the market. It’s non-destructive, super fast, and easy to use. As such, we want to reassure you that it isn’t going anywhere. 

I've come to accept the development priorities are exactly where they are meant to be. Adopt new users to the Affinity workflow with the promise of a fixed price, regularly add in "new features" that mimic other high-productivity platforms, but make them work "as advertised", not necessarily as expected. Also, continuously pressure the user to accept odd design strategies and use empathetic "We're listening" language to continue to keep them invested in the platform. But do continue to suggest to others it's just as good as other professional software out there and how happy they will be, regardless. By the time one notices any impact that preexisting bugs may have on their workflow, especially if they're aiming for high productivity/polished output, they'll have wasted so much time working around the odd problem and developing their workflow around it, that they may feel invested. Remembering that changing platforms is already painful with both having to learn a new platform and readjusting expectations accordingly. That has a high cost. Not to mention justifying to oneself the loss of a workflow that does work for them, it's just not as they felt they were advertised...

Yes, one can do "professional" work with Affinity, if they're doing {XYZ}, whatever XYZ happens to be. However, it's very dependent on the scenario and if the user is an unfortunate and find themselves in the situation where they encounter these workflow bugs regularly, then the suite becomes unfit for high productivity. I find that when I often opened the program and found a new bug, sometimes almost immediately, I was back to help/"the forums" to figure out what new hurdle I was thrown. Sometimes it's on me, but it's never straightforward and because of the arrogance around Serif's design (lack of a lock function being one example...), it leaves the user at the mercy of a divine intervention by way of seemingly randomized bugfix schedules and a userbase that is left to get into the weeds with one another over such design programs rather than focusing on addressing the overall problem with a haphazard development strategy. I don't bother to report bugs because I know unless they're low-hanging fruit, they will never be adequately addressed or fixed. Anything expand stroke, rendering-related or having to do with the brush engine or average algorithms… just forget about it.

The saddest part about all this is in that shifting my work back to other software, I'm seeing areas that where Affinity does stand tall over the competition, but it's all for naught with the plague of poor algorithms and the increasing unreliability the programs themselves bring with each bug release.

{As always, YMMV and this is very much my own opinion. Please save your rare novelties in the form of emojis for someone more deserving}

[Intuos5]

If only this could be fixed for the next version, I'd be happy (mind you, this worked fine in 1.10 and is still broken in the 2.5 Beta):

 

[Bit Disappointed]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:10 PM, jmwellborn said:

it is the continual “there aren’t any professional designers here but me…”  subtext that makes me rather suspect junior high school.

Missed.

[Bit Disappointed]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:16 PM, PaulEC said:

I always dislike comparing the old Plus range with Affinity, but it must be said that one of the biggest problems with Serif's old software was the way they kept adding "bells and whistles", (in the hope of persuading customers to buy new versions,) whilst the list of longstanding, and new, bugs just got longer and longer! The last version of PagePlus was so buggy that it was virtually unusable, until they finally agreed to issue a final patch just to get rid of the worst of them. I really hope that Affinity doesn't go the same way!

I am not a dude, @ronnyb and the rest of you and I merely thought that you would appreciate an even more intricate variant of your own language—not dull and colorless like on X, Instagram, or elsewhere. Where I come from, it's called a challenge, provocation, and beyond feedback, it's a kind of stimulus-response test. But the content was quite simple and serious; it was just the form that confused you.

The absurd and puzzling part is that you value and understand your own logic here, especially with PLUS ONE numbers as high as +1 or even +400,000, despite the fact that writing numbers from 1 to even several millions have given you nothing. Hundreds or maybe thousands of posts in this forum have also not yielded anything special.

But the cited post says it all, simply everything. Let me outline the problem with Serif and Affinity:

• It's been the same company since 1987. 37 years in the same groove.
• They fundamentally make the same products they have always made.
• It's the same issue with bugs that were never resolved in Affinity as in Plus. 37 years in the same groove.
• It's the same issue with features that are thrown in, but never matured, 37 years in the same groove.
• It's the same corporate culture.
• It's the same types of deliveries.
• Everything is the same, Serif just started with a new product line, the style, the errors, and the problems carried over into Affinity, and after a hyped start where everyone clung to hope, we all see that it resulted in more of the same.

And STILL, you believe it will be different? What can you possibly base your hope on? Miracles? That you should write +500,000 instead? That you haven't asked humbly enough? That you didn't write enough posts? 

What's interesting is that so many here stay with the faulty software, writing thousands of posts. They are practically here night and day. They doubt my professional background despite the obvious lack of their own professional background or any professional weight. But instead, they prioritize writing in a forum and point me out as a potential junior? I just have to conclude that I tread reality daily where the form, content, and format are quite different. In addition to missing the mark, statements like that doesn't change my life. You aren't changing Affinity's form or features either, other than having a marginal influence, and now Serif has indeed been bought by a huge company that isn't specialized in graphic excellence, and you are now even more ineffective in affecting the course of events. But you do the same. Serif does the same. The future really isn't created here, nor does change thrive. It's just a trip around in a circle year after year.

And so I asked: Instead of all this mess, how MUCH of your money would you bet with a bookmaker that it will be very different in the future? Shift focus away from me. How many thousand dollars/euros would you gamble on significant change? Think about it. No sullen answers to me; think about how much of your savings you would gamble on it. The amount will tell you whether you should start making other plans.

You're shooting yourselves in one foot here. When you sling mud at me, you shoot yourselves in the other foot. Two perforated feet significantly increase the odds that you can't keep up with us out here, and that you don't look up and around.

It's an absolute pleasure for me to return to reality and leave this behind. It is beyond any doubt that there are virtually no professionals here. Nor is it any coincidence that of all the companies on earth, Serif was bought by Canva, for crying out loud.

[ronnyb]

@Bit Disappointed BRUH! You're not the only "professional" here, and the disparaging and elitist attitude attests to that. If you dislike Affinity and Serif's efforts so much after 37 years of their miserable performance creating professional software (from your perspective), why are you here complaining about it? You think they're going to change after 37 years and after being purchased by another non-professionally focused company? I mean, we all know Canva is joke for "professionals" like yourself, right? You're just wasting your breath and "professional" time... But as I stated before, I believe you're here to continue to sow doubt and dissent. That fishy PR smell doesn't seem to go away...

[Frozen Death Knight]

Being a professional doesn't matter that much when it comes to leaving useful feedback. A professional may have unique insights about development relevant to one's chosen field, but casual users also bring a valid perspective that professionals may overlook because they are already used to how things work. Canva being several times bigger than Serif is just proof that catering to casual users can be more profitable than dedicating yourself to professionals. We are a lot fewer than them.

That being said, professionals are always on the lookout for new improvements to workflow. If a software ends up lacking they start to look for alternatives. Professionals work with the tools that are needed to do the work. Those standards can change on a whim, so it's up to the developers to be competitive and listen to feedback if they want to keep them around. If Affinity fails or succeeds over its competition will be determined by the market at the end of the day.

It's also a bit ridiculous to argue about who is a professional and questioning people's legitimacy, especially when discussing software that can be applied to multiple fields. Professional software depends completely on what is needed to do paid work. I've done paid art projects with Affinity, so that makes me a professional at least. No software is perfect however, not even industry standard software. I could dissect every single professional software I've ever used and find enough faults to write a novel. In fact, I technically already have just on this forum, hehe.

[bbrother]

If Canva is serious about expanding into the professional design market, they have certainly identified the problem the OP mentions.
There is no mercy for players of this size who have plans to go public.

They certainly know that they have more to lose if they don't seriously start fixing bugs than to gain by introducing half-baked features and sticking to the same development strategy that Serif has used so far.

This in itself does not mean that now there is only success ahead of us.
There is definitely a lot to improve and do. We'll see how Canva plays it and how it ends.

-----------------

10 hours ago, Bit Disappointed said:

You aren't changing Affinity's form or features either, other than having a marginal influence, and now Serif has indeed been bought by a huge company that isn't specialized in graphic excellence, and you are now even more ineffective in affecting the course of events.

I think you're passing judgment a little prematurely. Less than 7 weeks have passed since the acquisition.

Just because the acquisition was made by a company that doesn't specialize in graphic perfection doesn't mean it can't succeed in the field of professional design.
If it has the resources and wants to develop, it is absolutely possible — so making an accusation of it is a mistake.

I don't want to play the role of Canva's defender, but you are showing really bad will here, because it's really hard not to notice that if they didn't take user opinions into account, it would be impossible to achieve the number of 175 million users. Give them time and judge by the fruits, not based on a hunch tainted with pessimism.

I also think that your level of pessimism, or as you call it, realism, has long exceeded common sense.