AI generative Fill in Affinity

[WMax70]

Wondering how Affinity Photo is preparing or has prepared the integration of AI like Adobe does at the moment. 

I saw that Adobe Photoshop is now able to work with AI. Insert objects with written statements, remove items enhance the image and edit in seconds in stead of hours. Ai is now entering the photo tools.
It’s amazing and I’m looking forward to get such also in Affinty Photo.
It is for me worth to switch back since my workflow and edit time will be substantial reduced. 
Have a look at it below and just like the title says, it’s amazing. 
Serif, Can we expect such also in short term? Is is already available as plug-in in a certain way? or will this be End Of Life of Affinty Photo? 
 

 

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, WMax70 said:

Serif, Can we expect such also in short term?

Probably not, if not some third party service is reused therfor, as AI based algorithms/routines (neural network based) do first need some amount of (pre)available data and hardware resources in order to learn what and how to perform it.

1 hour ago, WMax70 said:

Is is already available as plug-in in a certain way?

Plug-ins don't know, there are some online service which claim to offer such things, like for example ...

• https://www.zmo.ai/introducing-imgeditor/

 

1 hour ago, WMax70 said:

or will this be End Of Life of Affinty Photo? 

Probably it will be more the end of the world as we know it! 😉

[Dan C]

Hi WMax70,

There are no plans for this at present.

Lee

[WMax70]

22 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Probably not, if not some third party service is reused therfor, as AI based algorithms/routines (neural network based) do first need some amount of (pre)available data and hardware resources in order to learn what and how to perform it.

Plug-ins don't know, there are some online service which claim to offer such things, like for example ...

• https://www.zmo.ai/introducing-imgeditor/

 

Probably it will be more the end of the world as we know it! 😉

I don’t think it will be the end of the world. All what is in is shared by all people via social media like. People did not really care. They always said they have nothing to hide. 
They knew, if you don’t pay for the product, you are the product. Well, they sold all your data and AI is just one example what they did with it. 
So if you suddenly see you face popping up… you shared it with all rights.
People will start to realise what privacy means. (Too late) 
So thanks to all who shared their data, AI exists by those 🙂.

However, if there are no AI plug-ins coming for Affinity and it will not be integrated like Adobe, than it might for me a reason to move back to Photoshop. 
Sad but true.  I really like Affinity very much, much more than Photoshop, but if it stays out Affinity, the difference will become too big and it will run far behind. I think Adobe has brought some new revolution. Game is changed again in favour of Adobe now.

[Pšenda]

57 minutes ago, WMax70 said:

than it might for me a reason to move back to Photoshop

I suppose it won't be "End Of Life of Affinity Photo" though.

[v_kyr]

36 minutes ago, WMax70 said:

However, if there are no AI plug-ins coming for Affinity and it will not be integrated like Adobe, than it might for me a reason to move back to Photoshop. 
Sad but true.  I really like Affinity very much, much more than Photoshop, but if it stays out Affinity, the difference will become too big and it will run far behind. I think Adobe has brought some new revolution. Game is changed again in favour of Adobe now.

Well it always depends what makes sense here to have, speeds up image editing processes and overall eases the work. - So I can imaging that ...

• AI generative fill
• AI based background removal
• AI based person/subject cut out, removal (like PS/LR offers) and subject exchange
• ...

... might be useful and handy to have, as far as those do a more precise and exact job than fiddling manually long time around to yield such results.

Actually AI is everywhere that much hyped, that it is sometimes hard to tell where and for what it makes sense or not. Further many imaging software based tools have or are jumping on the bandwaggon here, so not just Adobe. For example Luminar, Topaz, Pixelmator Photo (Photomator) ... and so on, are all too incorporating AI tools into their software. - And in other IT software domains too, just look how much AI Microsoft incorporates now into their software portofolio.

 

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, WMax70 said:

I don’t think it will be the end of the world.

BTW I've took that phrase, in an slightly adaption, from the "You’ve Got Mail" movie. - Where somebody in that movie said, related to a new opening of a „Fox & Sons Books Megastore"  in their neighborhood ... "The end of civilization as we know it..."! 

[WMax70]

Ah.. great. 👍 Yes I remember that one 🙂 
Great movie by the way 😉

[WMax70]

7 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Well it always depends what makes sense here to have, speeds up image editing processes and overall eases the work. - So I can imaging that ...

• AI generative fill
• AI based background removal
• AI based person/subject cut out, removal (like PS/LR offers) and subject exchange
• ...

... might be useful and handy to have, as far as those do a more precise and exact job than fiddling manually long time around to yield such results.

Actually AI is everywhere that much hyped, that it is sometimes hard to tell where and for what it makes sense or not. Further many imaging software based tools have or are jumping on the bandwaggon here, so not just Adobe. For example Luminar, Topaz, Pixelmator Photo (Photomator) ... and so on, are all too incorporating AI tools into their software. - And in other IT software domains too, just look how much AI Microsoft incorporates now into their software portofolio.

 

I agree  it is hyped, but as professional industrial photographer AI became a bit more than that for me that that.

I would summarize:

• AI generative fill
• AI based background removal, and content aware fill in
• AI based person/subject cut out, removal & shifts and subject exchange
• But also adding persons, because AI doen not need all those private documents

Additional;

• It generates concepts for me like light plans and mooth board fill in for customers
• The ligh plans save me a lot of time at the shoot, I can already prepare the light setup to get my objects positioned and lighted correct

Simple example I create with assistance of AI, which would be great if I sinmply could add the person direct in Affinity.
It's not just about simple editing, but also saves models, money and documents and arrangements for privacy

 

[CM0]

The content fill is truly a revolutionary level game changer for compositing work. The difference between the tools has mostly been manageable, but AI is providing a separation in capabilities that is enormous.

However, as fast as they can be implemented, they can also be copied. As openAI recently stated, there is no longer a moat to the capabilities you build. Anyone can copy them rather easily.

IMO, the quickest path to these capabilities is for Affinity to focus on finishing their plugin/scripting capabilities. They are a small team compared to Adobe, so getting the API out there allows Affinity to leverage the community and 3rd parties to greatly expand Affinity's capabilities including integrations with AI.

[TariqMK]

11 hours ago, LeeThorpe said:

Hi WMax70,

There are no plans for this at present.

Lee

Please note that if you drop the ball entirely on this and AI in general, this could have catastrophic consequences for the Affinity Suite as we know it.

You might not have any immediate plans, but if this doesn't change (and users arent made aware of it), then its too big of a feature gap for people to ignore.

AI has even changed the definition of what a "photo" is, so you simply cannot afford to ignore it.

This is truly a potential divergence point for Affinity. I hope the right path is chosen.

[CM0]

4 minutes ago, TariqMK said:

This is truly a potential divergence point for Affinity. I hope the right path is chosen.

I agree, if they don't have the resources for direct integration presently, I would hope they could at least make a statement to the fact the use cases for integration will be incorporated into the new scripting API so that community could provide these enhancements.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, TariqMK said:

You might not have any immediate plans, but if this doesn't change (and users arent made aware of it), then its too big of a feature gap for people to ignore.

That's certainly one opinion but I think there are a great many users & potential users who would have little or no use for AI powered features.

[CM0]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

That's certainly one opinion but I think there are a great many users & potential users who would have little or no use for AI powered features.

I think that misses on a couple of points.

1. AI is not limited to only generative AI. The potential productivity improvements don't have any limits. New uses will continue to be discovered and applied.
2. Neglecting a potential feature that is in high demand simply because some do not use that feature is of detriment also to those that don't use the feature. Why? because it brings lots of paying users to the application that in turn gives more resources to be applied to all features of the application.

[R C-R]

All I am suggesting is that some people will not care about AI based features because for example they take pleasure in doing things manually that machine learning algorithms either do not do well or just differently from what they want. IOW, for some this is as much an expression of their artistic taste as a way to crank out anything quickly or with minimal effort.

Put another way, the market is broad enough to support what Serif sells without any "me too" AI enhancements.

[CM0]

30 minutes ago, R C-R said:

All I am suggesting is that some people will not care about AI based features because for example they take pleasure in doing things manually

But that is an argument that could be put forward against any new feature. For example, even macros. AI is not a one dimensional tool. And FWIW I am also not interested in the random generative AI slot machines that people use to post images all over social media. However, AI that is finely tailored to specific and narrow tasks that can be used as a tool is extremely beneficial and lots of individuals are interested in those capabilities. Anyone can skip any of the existing advanced tools like the inpainting brush and do it manually if they choose, that doesn't change with AI.

Nonetheless, my primary interest would simply be that Affinity first focus on API's that simply allow the community or 3rd parties to build these integrations as there is no downside in such focus as they are already working on the API's. This is just an opportunity to make sure they can optimize for the use cases that we can see will be coming and will be in high demand.

[carl123]

Worth watching if just to see/hear how Adobe gets around any copyright issues.

I would also imagine this is scary stuff for those professionals that are currently paid a lot of money to do this manually

 

 

[Pšenda]

44 minutes ago, BofG said:

This makes me think about all the photographers who still have their own dark room to develop their film.

And why do some people still have cameras when AI can generate pictures for them on demand! And why do travel agencies still exist when everyone can have their picture taken (and that's what traveling is all about) anywhere in the world - just enter the AI "I'm at the North Pole" and I don't have to go anywhere. So is it "End Of Life of...." for all camera manufacturers, travel agencies,....? 🙂

[WMax70]

2 hours ago, carl123 said:

Worth watching if just to see/hear how Adobe gets around any copyright issues.

I would also imagine this is scary stuff for those professionals that are currently paid a lot of money to do this manually

 

 

This is what I want to convey:

Although AI is often overhyped, we can clearly see its practical application in enhancing existing images.
Utilizing AI technology can greatly accelerate our work as professional photographers. It's not just about saving money by spending fewer hours on a project, but also about deepening our understanding of photography.

Now, we can distinguish true professionals from amateurs.
How? Well, if you lack a clear vision from the beginning, you won't achieve the desired outcome.
It is crucial to have a flawless base image, including proper lighting, which serves as a foundation for further enhancements.
Planning the lighting, creating mood boards etc (can be done with AI already), and thoroughly preparing with clients make a significant difference in understanding and effectively communicating the intended message through the image.

With the aid of AI, we can surpass the competition that offers cheap services, as we can deliver professional work in the same timeframe, while also possessing the knowledge of how to achieve the desired results.
In professional photography, it's not solely about creating aesthetically pleasing images; it's about comprehending the image and its intended communication.

AI serves as an excellent tool to reach this level of understanding, once all the necessary groundwork is completed.
Currently, my job involves defining the desired outcome by writing requirement specifications, determining the wishes of the customer and the desired mood, and deciding on the intended message. Photography and editing will follow once this process is done, but it is the final stage of the overall process of image creation.

I will graduate next month as photo-image creator after two years of study which includes te use of AI in photography my case. 
This was former called school of photography, but the playground has been changed now.

 

[WMax70]

20 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

And why do some people still have cameras when AI can generate pictures for them on demand! And why do travel agencies still exist when everyone can have their picture taken (and that's what traveling is all about) anywhere in the world - just enter the AI "I'm at the North Pole" and I don't have to go anywhere. So is it "End Of Life of...." for all camera manufacturers, travel agencies,....? 🙂

For sure it is not, as in my previous reaction, thinking like this shows the diffence against the new-pro.
You cannot reach the level of photo-image creation if you have no clue about foto-imaging, the basics of light, mood, UX and what the image should communicate. 
Professional photography is more than creating aesthetically pleasing images.

[CM0]

5 hours ago, WMax70 said:

Professional photography is more than creating aesthetically pleasing images.

Yes, and for now AI's are only being trained on the visual appeal. Specifically the visual impact of a glance as that is how user feedback is processed. They will continue to be extraordinarily good in this aspect. This will likely change longer term, but it is the current state.

I want to use AI as a tool, but not as an autocomplete that just generates everything for me.

[WMax70]

28 minutes ago, CM0 said:

Yes, and for now AI's are only being trained on the visual appeal. Specifically the visual impact of a glance as that is how user feedback is processed. They will continue to be extraordinarily good in this aspect. This will likely change longer term, but it is the current state.

I want to use AI as a tool, but not as an autocomplete that just generates everything for me.

Here we are at the same page. That’s why I like the PS approach much more than midjourney, etc today.

[dominik]

10 hours ago, carl123 said:

Worth watching if just to see/hear how Adobe gets around any copyright issues.

Thank you @carl123 for posting this image.

In contrary to all the praise about AI I want to point to a single screenshot of this video (where the presenter says "What, that's insane!"):

 

Yes, Photoshops new 'generative fill' (and on step before 'select subject') did do a decent job in replacing the background in this image. But at the same time it is rather easy to tell that this is a montage because the lighting around the model's arms just doesn't fit well with the overall lighting of the background. I would expect a montage done by artificial INTELLIGENCE a lot more smarter. This is not an insane result!

To me this is a typical excample of all the hype without looking closer on the real results.

I concur with the assumption that this technology will refine and mature over time and as mentioned in this thread it can become a true help to tedious tasks like image composition.

But at the same time, please, don't get overexited about another video that is nothing more than an Adobe advertisement 😉

d.

[CM0]

7 minutes ago, dominik said:

But at the same time, please, don't get overexited about another video that is nothing more than an Adobe advertisement

I've watched quite a number of videos. Not perfect, but most of the excitement is fully justified. It is an enormous step forward in productivity. The gap between capabilities of applications previously was not that significant. You could work around limitations with a small bit of extra work. AI creates such significant gaps in productivity you can't ignore them. When competitors of my business are now doing in minutes what takes me hours, that just is not sustainable for long.

 

[albertkinng]

Photopea ( a free online Photoshop alternative ) announced the AI replacer tool: