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AdamW

Affinity Publisher Customer Beta - 1.9.0.742

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19 hours ago, AdamW said:

You will still get the interpreted preview in the document in Affinity,

What about showing the thumbnail preview image from the PDF instead?
I'd rather have a lower resolution, than an incorrect display (that would mentally transport me back to QuarkXpress in 1996/7 where you couldn't properly display PDF and EPS files inside the layout, fun times, but I prefer to GWIS - Get What I See!).
Maybe do a quick poll here in the forum to find out what the majority of users prefer?

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7 minutes ago, Dazmondo77 said:

As PDF/X is a print industry standard I would have thought passthrough would have worked - bombs every time for me

Passthrough worked for me with PDF/X-1a:2003 no bombing and the exported PDF looked like the original (Mojave)

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5 minutes ago, Murfee said:

Passthrough worked for me with PDF/X-1a:2003 no bombing and the exported PDF looked like the original (Mojave)

like dcarvalho84 I've only been able to get passthrough to work using PDF (for print) and maybe half of the PDF's I tried to import just bomb publisher - very unstable but its early days -


Mac Pro Cheese-grater (Early 2009)
2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC Ram
NVIDIA GeForce GT 630 - 2 GB
Ugee 19" Graphics Tablet Monitor
Mac OS Mojave 10.14.6

Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher 1.8.3 + Latest Betas when available

Currently working on bits and bobs
www.bingercreative.co.uk

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2 minutes ago, Dazmondo77 said:

maybe half of the PDF's I tried to import just bomb publisher

I haven't had a problem with any I have tried so far...Have you tried rebooting the Mac? I find it can often resolve some of these problems

It is early days and I am sure they will get it sorted for all of us

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1 hour ago, Dazmondo77 said:

half of the PDF's I tried to import just bomb publisher

 

1 hour ago, haakoo said:

not all will passthrough

Testing that and sorting out issues is part of the beta process — If you have files that not work, upload them here so the developers can take a look at them and fix the problem(s). If the files are confidential ask for an upload link.

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3 hours ago, Jens Krebs said:

… but I prefer to GWIS - Get What I See!

I do as well. Absolutely. There is a essential difference between

  • just placing a PDF in a Publisher document and
  • embedding a PDF into the design context of a Publisher document.

If we were talking about placing PDFs in the first sense only, the current implementation would surely be sufficient. But as soon as you have to refer to the visual contents of the placed PDF by any kind of design elements, you are lost.

As for a hypothetical example, suppose you are asked to add some explanatory texts to a design specimen of a new typeface without having access to the typeface itself yet. Then Publisher will replace the typeface by Lucida Grande (see below). So, how are you going to complete your task on the basis of the current implementation? How could you possibly determine the correct position of the blue line that serves as a pointer in my example? Seems difficult, right? 😉

 

Yikes.thumb.png.0652b1ce1853ae3f9aaccbf3465f09ce.png

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1 hour ago, A_B_C said:

Seems difficult, right? 😉

Well ... I'm a bit confused here. As I read your post you seem to confirm what I said in an explainatory manor, so I'm herewith carefully agreeing with you. I think?

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Until things get fixed what I did as (an experiment only) was

1: Place the PDF (with Passthrough) and then export,

2: open in Preview and export as a TIFF/PNG,

3: Place the TIFF/PNG resize to proper size

4: Make my 'notes' Trash the TIFF/PNG

5: Export.

Otherwise you have an impossible job

here are the 'notes' overlaid on what you see in Publisher with no TIFF. I want to show the clefs and key.

228536018_ScreenShot2020-09-19at11_02_51AM.png.0e6c9f8ff5beee8a83241ea4f7f841d4.png

Here is both TIFF and Publisher

451463081_ScreenShot2020-09-19at11_03_11AM.png.030154ed6da021565906587f810ce4b3.png

Here is the final exported PDF with the clefs and key highlighted.

2103121977_ScreenShot2020-09-19at11_04_35AM.png.16efa1c0e114dd42d74c4d9fd5b9c2c7.png

 

Jens and A_B_C are quite correct in their need for something better than this method.

 


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.6

Affinity Designer 1.8.4 | Affinity Photo 1.8.4 | Affinity Publisher 1.8.4 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.9.0.2 | Affinity Photo Beta 1.9.0.199 | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.9.0.742

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I absolutely agree with the point you made earlier in this thread, Jens! 🙂

I just meant to provide an example that can explain why it is essential to have the non-interpreted version of a placed PDF displayed in Affinity Publisher. In my example, I exported a PDF with Erica One from Publisher, disabled the font, and placed the PDF back in a different Publisher document. Now, what can you do with the placed file, when the typeface is replaced by Lucida Grande? There is no way to create a consistent design context in which the placed PDF could play a role. You simply don’t see what you get. I fear the current approach will be met with strong reservations, should it find its way to the release version.

I must also confess, I didn’t understand completely what Adam said in his earlier reply. As far as I understand, the development team would like to stick to the idea that the PDF interpreter is responsible for displaying the placed PDF on screen. And to achieve WYSIWYG, they are planning to improve the PDF interpreter up to the point where the interpreted PDF is visually identical to the source PDF, in particular by finding a solution for embedded fonts. Of course, if that’s achievable, it would be a satisfactory solution. But I think it’s clear that PDF passthrough, in its current state, would cover a rather limited range of use cases in real-world contexts. 

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@Dazmondo77 Can you upload the file that bombs out when you passthrough it here.

We are aware of a few files that do it (mentioned in Adams post) and I want to check it's the same thing, thanks!


Serif Europe Ltd. - www.serif.com

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I personally think it would be best to hold off implementing PDF passthrough feature until the placed preview matches the actual original PDF (even a super low res one, I wouldn't care). For example, if I'm producing a newspaper filled with hundreds of PDF adverts placed as passthrough, although they may well export fine in the final output I'm not filled with confidence working on a document that looks wildly different to the final outcome. Just my opinion, not a criticism in any way!

But this is a FANTASTIC feature - I'm loving the pace at which Publisher is developing :)

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14 minutes ago, Jon P said:

We are aware of a few files that do it (mentioned in Adams post) and I want to check it's the same thing, thanks!

It's all the pdf's I've tried - PDF(for print) works - I only get the problem when using all PDF/x


Mac Pro Cheese-grater (Early 2009)
2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC Ram
NVIDIA GeForce GT 630 - 2 GB
Ugee 19" Graphics Tablet Monitor
Mac OS Mojave 10.14.6

Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher 1.8.3 + Latest Betas when available

Currently working on bits and bobs
www.bingercreative.co.uk

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Sounds like the issue I have logged (was only on PDF X4), if you could upload a few to the folder I'll take a look.


Serif Europe Ltd. - www.serif.com

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2 hours ago, Jon P said:

Sounds like the issue I have logged (was only on PDF X4), if you could upload a few to the folder I'll take a look.

Just uploaded Jon 👍 - the Passthrough test.afpub which I've been testing today, is comprised of 1 page from 4 different PDF's layer up on an A3 sheet. - PDF(for print) works great - all PDF/X formats bomb Publisher as soon as the export screen shows - the only way back is to open a new document which lets me go back to other export formats without bombing


Mac Pro Cheese-grater (Early 2009)
2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC Ram
NVIDIA GeForce GT 630 - 2 GB
Ugee 19" Graphics Tablet Monitor
Mac OS Mojave 10.14.6

Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher 1.8.3 + Latest Betas when available

Currently working on bits and bobs
www.bingercreative.co.uk

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3 hours ago, ConnectCreative said:

For example, if I'm producing a newspaper filled with hundreds of PDF adverts placed as passthrough, although they may well export fine in the final output I'm not filled with confidence working on a document that looks wildly different to the final outcome.

That’s a great real-life example! 😀

And I’d support your conclusion. Also not meant as mere criticism in any way, but hopefully received as some sort of constructive feedback! 😊

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8 hours ago, A_B_C said:

That’s a great real-life example! 😀

And I’d support your conclusion. Also not meant as mere criticism in any way, but hopefully received as some sort of constructive feedback! 😊

Agreed.

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On 9/19/2020 at 1:31 PM, Jens Krebs said:

What about showing the thumbnail preview image from the PDF instead?

In practice many/most PDFs don't include a thumbnail preview. Then the only way we can get an image to draw is to interpret the PDF ourselves, which will never be guaranteed perfect because the PDF specification will always have features we won't support. (Although supporting embedded fonts will help a lot.)

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17 minutes ago, Dave Harris said:

In practice many/most PDFs don't include a thumbnail preview. Then the only way we can get an image to draw is to interpret the PDF ourselves, which will never be guaranteed perfect because the PDF specification will always have features we won't support. (Although supporting embedded fonts will help a lot.)

On the Mac you could always consider using Apple's APIs to render the embedded PDF data as it is native to the graphics system.  That obviously won't help Windows users, but you could still use the previews when they are available and fall back on what you are doing now when they are not?

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Both macOs/iOs and Windows have viewers that display PDFs correctly built in, the secret to create a reliable preview must be hidden somewhere in both systems.

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On 9/19/2020 at 1:35 AM, Uncle Jack said:

My enthusiasm is very limited. When will cross-column text formatting be installed?As it looks like this will not be implemented in the next 1.9 update - although it has been requested many times here in the forum. Your "Publisher" is therefore still no alternative for InDesign for me.

Yes, without Span Columns Publisher is worthless for many people. I bought it so far only to support the company, but I still use InDesign because this feature is missing.

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On 9/18/2020 at 5:52 PM, AdamW said:

Hi @Dazmondo77 - You will still get the interpreted preview in the document in Affinity, we may end up watermarking it or something to make this more obvious, but when re-exported to PDF does it look correct?

If Passthrough is only going to show the interpreted version on screen then its going to be pretty pointless adding Passthrough (which is definitely needed). How would one align artwork with an interpreted image on screen? It would be impossible without constantly exporting, checking the output, nudging the PDF this way and that, reexporting, rechecking, move the PDF again etc.

We need to see on screen what we are working with! Whether it's a flattened preview or layered whatever, It needs to be accurate and not a preview that looks like its been captured from a camera made out of Lego.

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7 minutes ago, Nazario said:

If Passthrough is only going to show the interpreted version on screen then its going to be pretty pointless adding Passthrough (which is definitely needed). How would one align artwork with an interpreted image on screen? It would be impossible without constantly exporting, checking the output, nudging the PDF this way and that, reexporting, rechecking, move the PDF again etc.

We need to see on screen what we are working with! Whether it's a flattened preview or layered whatever, It needs to be accurate and not a preview that looks like its been captured from a camera made out of Lego.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

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On 9/19/2020 at 1:31 PM, Jens Krebs said:

What about showing the thumbnail preview image from the PDF instead?
I'd rather have a lower resolution, than an incorrect display (that would mentally transport me back to QuarkXpress in 1996/7 where you couldn't properly display PDF and EPS files inside the layout, fun times, but I prefer to GWIS - Get What I See!).
Maybe do a quick poll here in the forum to find out what the majority of users prefer?

Call me crazy, but what about showing an accurately rendered PDF, displayed on the page? Like InDesign does. Like Pages does. Like Word does. Like Uncle Bob's BrochureMaker™ and every other app in the world does.

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