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1 hour ago, Requester said:

For several years now I have been using only Linux (Manjaro Deepin) on my computer. At the moment, however, I am actually considering switching back to Windows because of the affinity products.

So far I have mainly programmed and was satisfied with Inkscape. Photoshop ran via Wine. But since I chose Affinity products at work a year ago, as I'm doing more and more design work, I've been missing Affinity products more and more on my Linux desktop.

Dual boot is no option for me, because it's not comfortable, bad UX.

What about running Windows and consequently Affinity in VirtualBox?


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Deco 03 Pen Tablet, XP-Pen Artist-12, - iPad2 iOS 9.35 B|  Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Designer (ADe) Tutorials - Affinity Photo (APh) Tutorials - Public Domain Images

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2 hours ago, firstdefence said:

What about running Windows and consequently Affinity in VirtualBox?

Tried out, but the performance is very, very poor.

Guess, because in Virtual Box i have only a simple virtual graphics card.

Did anyone get it running fast and smoothly that way?

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On 11/30/2018 at 9:30 AM, R C-R said:

A bunch of resources still have to be available from somewhere to support things like built-in help systems, font & text management, print & other device drivers, file level metadata, window servers, etc.

Obviously, Linux can be configured to support all of that in some way or another, but think about how much extra work it would take for the developers to make sure Affinity would run smoothly no matter how that OS was configured. 

They don't need to make sure that it works no matter how the OS is configured. They just need to throw their hat and say: we support ONLY Ubuntu and use a snap format.

If anyone wants any support in other distros, having Affinity software in Snaps helps with that. Anyway, I don't believe there's interest from the company to release this software in Linux which is a pity. They're missing an opportunity of entering a market that is completely vacant since Photoshop ignores it.

If they're doubtful about supporting Linux they just have to contact Canonical or Red Hat and ask them for more information and even establishing a partnership to launch their apps and market them.

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1 hour ago, Rosmaninho said:

They're missing an opportunity of entering a market that is completely vacant since Photoshop ignores it.

And why do you think that is?


Keith Reeder

 

(I don't need bird photography lessons - OK..?)

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1 hour ago, Rosmaninho said:

They don't need to make sure that it works no matter how the OS is configured. They just need to throw their hat and say: we support ONLY Ubuntu and use a snap format.

You mean, like they currently do with Windows and Mac?

And before you changed it, your post also said "If anyone wants anything else then too bad." Funny how that's not OK when they say it about Linux, eh? 


Keith Reeder

 

(I don't need bird photography lessons - OK..?)

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1 hour ago, Rosmaninho said:

They're missing an opportunity of entering a market that is completely vacant since Photoshop ignores it.

No they are not !

As has been said over and over and over, Serif have decided that the market is not viable (at least for now). So it seems have Adobe and just about every other mainstream, professional software company. Why do you think you know better than them ? Have you ever tried to launch a mainstream 'professional' software product for Linux ? As far as I know, only Corel tried and that probably lost them millions of dollars.

If you take the time to read all the many posts in this thread, that message has been repeated over and over and over.

I simply don't understand why Linux users can't seem to grasp that ? 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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Yes, it really doesn’t get clearer than that. You aren’t going to spend $10 so that you can make $5.

In fact, as I think of the entire project which I first learned of in late 2014 with the release of the spectacular Designer, it seems like a huge undertaking..even for the Mac market, most of which revolves around graphic arts, and which has a passionate, committed even rabid user base, the maker of the macOS and the computers which run it the most profitable/valuable company on earth, with more cash laying around than the rest of the planet...it still wasn’t guaranteed to be successful.

Happily, it seems to have been!

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3 hours ago, toltec said:

I simply don't understand why Linux users can't seem to grasp that ? 

What I find more painful, as someone who likes open source apps (not so much about a particular OS, even less a distro, and even less a desktop...That never ending fight between KDE and Gnome....GEEZ  (btw, liked both). Or libraries (QT/GTK). And in the distros.. Never cared... Had Suse, Red Hat, Debian, Slackware, Ubuntu, Mint... ALL good. Even more, I enjoyed variety as I did as a kid with Christmas presents) is that jewels like Blender, Inkscape and Gimp ( really! check it out! Their pace has FINALLY changed, after decades. Much better now. Wouldn't change at all the great AP 1.7 beta for it, but YUP If I was yet a Linux fan, as I was. I know I could/can do pro stuff with it)  are left alone and discarded by a vast portion of the community. Or maybe is not such a "community" anymore. And that'd TOTALLY go with the Linux Sucks (for ever) video that a dev posted here. I am seeing many more "users" that just want to stay away from Windows, and use Linux just to not use Windows, as the main or single motivation.

Not because they believe in its philosophy and what they are willing to achieve since the beginning. Might be just the impression I get, but is becoming more established when I read posts here and complaints in a bunch of other forums, social media sites, comment sections in articles.... They don't care that they are using CLOSED source binaries with tons of restrictions, very far from open source principles. They, IMO, don't get that the advantage of linux is not just that it is zero cost and respectful with privacy. It's an effort for generosity with others, sharing is in its essence, and freedom of movement. Not depending any more on a few monopolizing top dog companies, which they will, if keep only depending on ported binaries of closed source commercial apps from other OSes.   

A lot of this spirit is IMO clearly lost with the "hey, lets pray/pester the closed source companies from OTHER platforms to get us what we had BEFORE when we were at those platforms". I see quite more authentic (and brave, and ethic, and free, and....) to go help the great guys at Gimp (and Inkscape, Scribus, Blender, Krita...), doing A TON of efforts now. Heck, I've talked to certain open source GREAT author of one of those (the main dev), and known from him what it is taking another guy, the main Synfig dev now to get all what is achieving. How much does he sacrifices to do all that what he is incredibly achieving....ALONE, almost zero help.  These people deserve a ton more of everything (not just money, but definitely, money, as talk is cheap...) than what they are getting from their own Linux community (and from all of us....). I don't see anything TERRIBLE in using from time to time a binary ported from a Mac OS/Win (or both) based company, which graciously (or by charity) decides to have a branch coding a Linux binary port and deliver "as is", if in the mood and when in the mood. Now, depending totally on these things to happen (and getting, devastated/infuriated if getting a "no" for an answer, instead turning back to Gimp, etc), discarding fully the existence of Gimp/Inkscape/Scribus/Blender/Krita/Synfig,  specially the clearly triumphant Blender (an example that perhaps will follow the others).... that's a very different thing. Bugging the commercial companies that have their own business model (and total freedom of choice to have done so!) because they are not getting from them what they want, in a different platform than is clearly stated as available in the company's site,  while the actual entire model of GNU GPL and similar licenses do play by very different rules and principles... I mean, I don't get it. I quite more understand the line of old times users (I was one, somehow, but never a coder) like Solly, who posted something WAAAY more in the line that I would expect from someone that understands what's all about, in linux and the FOSS community, since the start.

 


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Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x ....AMAZING. Getting there for painting. But "ALT" color picking needs LOVE. It's now the only show-stopper for painting. PLEASE give it LOVE ;) .
Or your coding magic.

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On 12/6/2018 at 2:41 PM, toltec said:

As has been said over and over and over, Serif have decided that the market is not viable (at least for now).

Well @toltec I'm not sure you are correct about that. I don't feel that has been said at all. It was merely suggested as a probability, once. Let's try to read back and see what's actually been said by the Affinity staff.

On 8/16/2014 at 9:29 PM, TonyB said:

We would only make a Linux version if we were confident we would recoup the $500,000 it would cost us to build it.

On 9/29/2014 at 9:17 PM, Andy Somerfield said:

I need (..) a combination of distro, desktop topology and deployment (paid) platform where we would recoup our development costs.

On 3/1/2017 at 12:53 PM, Patrick Connor said:

we are currently focusing on what we have now (..) and realistically will do so exclusively for quite some time.

Those are two questions and a statement. That last statement was a reply to new user @rrbachamp with 1 post where @Patrick Connor seems to summarize his personal opinion about the sentiment of this topic. Factual statements about the realism of this idea are made by his two colleagues. There have been some interesting suggestions by the community. Here are the recurring ones:

  • Recoup How: Crowdsource. Charge double. Only deliver when $500,000 in pre-orders was made.
  • Recoup Where: Snaps on the Ubuntu store with help from the Ubuntu marketing team
  • Alternatively: Spend far less resources and just make some (small?) adjustments so Affinity for Windows will play nice on WINE.

So unless I'm mistaken, Linux users are now waiting for @TonyB and @Andy Somerfield to respond with their thoughts on these suggestions.

In the meanwhile, this thread is being flooded with two different discussions.

  1. The pro's and cons of using Linux, motivations for (not) using Linux, being passionately for or against Linux
  2. The oddly fierce, rude and almost aggressive way certain non-Linux-users (mis)construe Affinity's position.

So what Linux users "grasp" is that either Affinity is going to respond to the suggestions made at a later time, or Affinity is waiting for more suggestions to be made. Personally I'm afraid that this thread is polluted too much with sentiment and inexplicable anger towards Linux users for Affinity to even want to keep reading, and I'm wondering if that's exactly what motivates non-Linux-users to keep stirring the pot. This thread would make a lot more sense if non-Linux-users would have stayed out of it.

Summary:

  • Linux users suggest version for Linux
  • Affinity team say it's not likely but are willing to talk, ask where/how
  • Linux users make suggestions, and are waiting for Affinity's feedback on what was said
  • Non-Linux-users start to get annoyed. Why? They are probably afraid Linux will turn out to be a big market, resulting in that one way or another, the Windows version will be getting less updates. I am speculating, because I have literally heard no real arguments for their resistance. And if it was irrelevant to their interests, they wouldn't weigh in.

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3 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

...

  • Non-Linux-users start to get annoyed. Why? They are probably afraid Linux will turn out to be a big market, resulting in the Windows version getting less frequent updates. I am speculating, because I have literally heard no real arguments. And if it was irrelevant to their interests, they wouldn't weigh in.

That is a pretty silly assumption. What would actually happen is that Serif would need to hire programmers, etc., in order to support a third OS. Then the future updating is as in-sync as the Mac/Windows versions are now.

Serif needs more application programmers now just to support the two OSs in a timely manner. They have had long-standing job offers out in the wild and have a difficult time getting qualified people at their location and/or who are willing to relocate. Adding a third OS at this time would compound that difficulty.

And all that besides the potential of not recouping the costs to do so via a non crowd-funded model. And I suspect there are other hurdles to overcome before any Linux solution would be viable.

I could care less which way Serif decides to go. If Serif decides a permanent No to a Linux option, I suspect these threads will continue. You (meaning whomever is calling for Linux to be supported) could always buy a Windows or a Mac box. Use a switch to make you keyboard/monitor/pointing device active for whichever box needs to be used. It's not the worse solution and if Affinity applications would be valuable to your work, it is one that is possible now without too much disruption in a work-flow.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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I am a Linux user but had to keep the best computer for Windows due to lack of graphic software alternative. I knew about GIMP, Scribus and Inkscape but cannot get used to the interface, shortcuts and ways of doing things. I think I will make the switch if Affinity is available on Linux.

As for distro, it can be made available/ support Ubuntu/ Mint and Manjaro as they have the most installed base.

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You are seeing what you want to see, you need to accept that it isn't going to happen.

____________________________________________________

On 12/7/2018 at 6:26 AM, Redsandro said:

Those are two questions and a statement.

Those are three statements.

_____________________________________________________

On 12/7/2018 at 6:26 AM, Redsandro said:
  • Linux users suggest version for Linux
  • Affinity team say it's not likely but are willing to talk, ask where/how

"Affinity team say it's not likely" Full Stop. 

It isn't going to happen.

I do enjoy these little discussions only because I have an odd sense of humour. edited to fix grammar.


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 | Affinity Photo 1.6.7 | Affinity Publisher beta 1.7.0.192 | Affinity Photo beta 1.7.0.105 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.0.3

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15 minutes ago, MikeW said:

You (..) could always buy a Windows or a Mac box. Use a switch to make you keyboard/monitor/pointing device active for whichever box needs to be used. It's not the worse solution and if Affinity applications would be valuable to your work, it is one that is possible now without too much disruption in a work-flow.

This might work for people who use Affinity on a daily basis, but when you're using it on a daily basis, you will probably not buy Affinity. When I did graphic editing on a daily basis, I had an Adobe subscription. 

As for what I consider to be the Affinity target audience (freelancers, indie developers, anyone not using it on a daily basis), I don't think your suggestion is realistic. No Indie game developer in the history of ever will dual boot on their laptop. No freelancer will use two machines in the office, just for the jobs where they need half a week of editing in a month's work. Even if they have the software, licenses, and machines, they would still not do it. I know this empirically, because this is me. They would rather work with the inferior and limited GIMP and other software that works over WINE.

I have both Affinity licenses. Bought them immediately when the Windows version came out. One, as encouragement funding because I had just ended my Adobe subscription. And two, because I secretly hoped they would either eventually make a Linux version (assumed small probability) or the Windows version would run on WINE (assumed big probability, which in hindsight turns out is wrong). But I simply don't use them, because Ifor the same reason as why I don't switch cars every time I want to listen to a different radio station.

So here is the truth which I think some Linux users would agree, rated from 1 (totally agree) to 3 (neutral) to 5 (totally disagree)

  1. Would love Affinity Linux version, willing to pay double for new license, even when already having an Affinity Windows license
  2. Would love Affinity WINE support
  3. Would use inferior tools like GIMP (and native tools Corel AfterShot on Linux, while using competitor's tools over WINE
  4. Would actually dual-boot
  5. Would use two machines with KVM to use Windows/Affinity and Linux together

So we're all at point 3. We're arguing about point 1 as long as the Affinity Team members have not addressed our answers to their questions yet. Meanwhile we're proposing that point 2 might be something to realistically look at too, since software like AlienSkin Exposure and games like Doom 4 proof that WINE performance is orders of magnitude better than and nearly  uncomparable to virtualization, which has unbearable performance with graphics software for some reason.

58 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Those are three statements.

To Windows users and older people they just might. Younger people that still have some creativity in their brain can see the questions embedded in the first two quotes. Or rather invitations to solve for x in their if x then y statements.

1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

Full Stop. 

Your (sic) are seeing what you want to see too. That's fine. The only problem is: This topic is not relevant for you. Why are you here?

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49 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

In the meanwhile, this thread is being flooded with two different discussions.

Actually, it has been flooded with half a dozen or so constantly recurring discussions about the popularity of Linux for web servers & such, the various (& changing) distributions different users prefer, the long ago rejected idea of crowd sourcing the project (even after the staff explained funding was not an issue), a variety of comments implying (sometimes rather offensively) that Serif lacks the expertise to develop native Linux versions of the apps (again, even after the staff said that was not an issue), & generally ignoring what they have said about the $500,000 figure being a minimum estimate just for development but not including any other business costs of marketing & maintaining the apps.

There are also a lot of verbiage about what is wrong with or disliked about Windows, Microsoft, Apple, or sometimes even about anything that isn't 100% open source. Then there is all the speculation about how large the potential market might be, far too much of it based on what most charitably could be called wishful thinking rather than anything solid enough for any company to take seriously.

Worse, there is the suggestion that non-Linux users should not contribute anything to the discussion, & that often includes people that do or have used Linux.

Finally, there is the ridiculous suggestion that Linux users are just waiting for an official response of some sort, when it is blatantly obvious that is not even close to what this topic is about now, nor has it been for quite some time.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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11 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

I know this empirically, because this is me.

Wow. Just ... wow! :(


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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20 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

The only problem is: This topic is not relevant for you. Why are you here?

using.jpg.9a911c1104df6608347c84c2e59959a5.jpg

Actually, if you were to take the time to read it, this part of the forum is actually Mac and Windows and for questions about using Affinity Desktop Software.

As you are not actually posting questions about using Affinity Desktop Software on Mac or Windows computers, why are you here ?

You would appear to be trolling.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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On 12/6/2018 at 1:02 PM, Keith Reeder said:

You mean, like they currently do with Windows and Mac?

And before you changed it, your post also said "If anyone wants anything else then too bad." Funny how that's not OK when they say it about Linux, eh? 

I cooled down my head, and decided to expand and write a more productive response.

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On 12/6/2018 at 12:58 PM, Keith Reeder said:

And why do you think that is?

Because they probably think it is too risky and there's no guarantee of re-couping their investment. Anyway, I like this software and would like to see it in Linux.

I already provided as much info as possible on how this might be doable. However, I know it won't be done because that's been the official statement. I don't want to be involved in silly shouting matches with people that come here to harass users that would love to use their favourite software in their favourite OS.

If you don't like this, simply move on to other topics instead of harassing people that are discussing this topic in a contained topic.

 

All the best,

Rosmaninho

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25 minutes ago, Rosmaninho said:

I already provided as much info as possible on how this might be doable.

But none of it is new to this topic, which is what the "over & over & over" comments are all about.

Besides, it always has been & still is the wrong forum for this discussion. Go to https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php & I think you might begin to see why people trying to ask & answer questions about the desktop Affinity apps on Mac and Windows might be annoyed by what many see as a general disregard for proper netiquette ... or not.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.9.81 & Affinity Designer 1.6..2.24 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.0

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

the long ago rejected idea of crowd sourcing

I thought I was thorough when I went back through the pages and quoted staff responses in my previous post. I did this for the purpose of being objective, so we can stop using the length of the thread as an excuse to say "I am right, it was said somewhere."

For that reason, could you be so kind and provide the relevant quotes from staff members (identifiable by their badge) using the quote button on their posts for this (and those other claims)? Do so and I will stand corrected. I'm just a man. I've followed this thread with interest. But I can be wrong. Perhaps I missed something. In the mean time however, I'm going to assume that this is your personal reality.

Edited by Redsandro
Changed quote to more interesting one

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9 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

could you be so kind...

That's quite an ask. It may well have been in here  (12 pages of replies) or in here (31 pages of replies) which was very popular for a while or any of these or these  (or it may not have been said, I have no idea)


Patrick Connor

Serif (Europe) Ltd.

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17 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

That's quite an ask. It may well have been in here which was very popular for a while or any of these or these  (or it may not have been said, I have no idea)

Oh, okay, I am following this topic since the beginning, because it is relevant to my interests. I didn't know there were four more topics on this. I searched this topic when I made quotes, and from this topic alone, the quotes are accurate. All these claims of somehow angered users felt insincere. As a moderator you probably know that people arguing don't like to quote because then they cannot exaggerate. I was trying to set the record straight. I did not know they had many other topics mixed in with this one when they claimed that things were said "over and over" (but not in this topic).

I did not know the Linux virus has spread beyond this topic. I did not know (and still don't) that all ideas had already been rejected. I'm interested in reading about this.

24 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

and voted on (by me)

When I click this link, I go to a post from you:

On 11/24/2018 at 6:07 PM, Patrick Connor said:

This community are not in the business of determining Serif strategy. We are not a democracy

I do not understand what you mean with this post in the context of "voted on"? If you meant to quote yourself, I agree. I was (and still am) under the impression that your colleagues whom I quoted here are or were open to talking about this, even if it was just for a glance. In that context, I'm not challenging that Serif decides it's own strategy, and I am confused by this quote as to relevance.

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11 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

Oh, okay, I am following this topic since the beginning, because it is relevant to my interests. I didn't know there were four more topics on this. I searched this topic when I made quotes, and it feels like suggestions were made by request, and then nothing. As a moderator you probably know that people arguing don't like to quote because then they cannot exaggerate.

I did now know the Linux virus has spread beyond this topic. I did not know (and still don't) that all suggestions had already been rejected. I'm interested in reading about this.

When I click this link, I go to a post from you:

I do not understand what you mean with this post in the context of "voted on"? If you meant to quote yourself, I agree. I was (and still am) under the impression that your colleagues whom I quoted here are or were open to talking about this, even if it was just for a glance.

It was suggested that this thread could have been in a more appropriate forum. In the UK in a formal debate setting that suggestion could be accepted by the chair and they may say "So Moved"....  (actually this is common on TV but not actually used in real life, but I digress)

Having set up the "Joke" that this proposal had been suggested to a theoretical chair (me), I put it to the vote (of me). I was making a joke that I have unilaterally voted on this proposal (because it is sensible). In making the joke I linked to the post where I pointed out that Serif are not a democracy (another light-hearted reference to the fact I have decided on my own to move this and other linux threads to the Suggestion forum)

the final and "so moved" was informing this thread that I have moved the whole thread to another forum. (It's called a call back in comedy circles).

Explaining a joke stops it being funny. Guess it wasn't that funny in the first place :( 


Patrick Connor

Serif (Europe) Ltd.

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