Story editor - mandatory

[Jowday]

I need a story editor to use this software. Like the editor in PagePlus, inDesign or Scribus for that matter. Not as a word processor of course, but as a simple tool where I can adjust the content of the imported text and make final adjustments. Like I am used to in PagePlus.

[Fixx]

Story editor was mandatory when computers were so slow that editing text in layout was not practical. Nowadays editing layout text is no problem.

[Eugene Tyson]

9 minutes ago, Fixx said:

Story editor was mandatory when computers were so slow that editing text in layout was not practical. Nowadays editing layout text is no problem.

I disagree, a galley view is essential for finding overset text, or seeing what paragraph styles/char styles or hidden characters are in the text. 

I think it's vital. I use it all the time in InDesign - and I am an InDesign Community Professional on the Adobe Forums, I've used Quark for 21 years and InDesign for about 15 years. 

I believe this to be an essential tool for anyone typesetting long documents.

[Jim_A]

+1 for Story Editor. It’s an extremely useful tool, especially, as Hank said, for working with overset text, identifying styles and invisible characters.

The alternative is to link overset text to a temporary box on the pasteboard. This is cumbersome and impractical with longer documents. And it doesn’t provide a way to identify which styles have been applied.

The story editor has also saved me much time and frustration in trying to track down rogue column break or page break characters in the middle of some imported text.

[Fida Jessa]

1 hour ago, Hank_Scorpio said:

I disagree, a galley view is essential for finding overset text, or seeing what paragraph styles/char styles or hidden characters are in the text. 

I think it's vital. I use it all the time in InDesign - and I am an InDesign Community Professional on the Adobe Forums, I've used Quark for 21 years and InDesign for about 15 years. 

I believe this to be an essential tool for anyone typesetting long documents.

 

[stunev]

A few versions back Adobe removed Story Editor from InDesign snd had to reinstate it due to public demand. I agree that we need Story Editor - it’s sometimes useful just to check the text without the distraction of the layout.

[jrkay]

I agree, I use Write in PP all the time with fonts styles showing, not only to edit comfortably as has been said before but also to see what formatting has been applied to the text but furthemore with the useful ability to export text or a selection of text to either a txt file or even more useful, a RTF one.

[Interior Book Design]

Typesetting long books you need to have full control over your text. A story editor helps you to spot overset text, to copy/paste text, to control, where a story ends and begins and so on ...

PagePlus used to have a fine story editor, almost a word processor. I love it. InDesign's story editor is not so great, but vital for me.

 

[curtsheller]

+1 for even a simple story editor.

Speed of the computer is not the issue. Plain text editing, seeing applied styles and especially when starting from imported pdf file and text is not continuous frame - as opening pdf creates a lot of seperste text blocks. Plus editing without having to zoom in.

[jrkay]

Three more reasons for having a separate editor as in PagePlus.

1. Marking words for inclusion in an index is much easier using an editor like Write Plus.

2. Including footnote or endnote text is much easier, as soon as the number is allocated to the main text , the end or bottom of the page is shown below so that the relevant text may be inserted in the proper place.

3. Exporting some or all of the text to an RTF file is made a lot easier.

John

 

[Michail]

On 9/1/2018 at 11:45 AM, Fixx said:

Story editor was mandatory when computers were so slow that editing text in layout was not practical. Nowadays editing layout text is no problem.

No. The main reason is that you can edit the text independently of the layout. The text is not distributed on text frames, and you can write or edit the entire text without any disturbing obstacles.
Whether or not you need this depends on how you work and on the type of publication.

[jrkay]

I don't want to teach "grandma to suck eggs" but I do feel that in order to strengthen my previous contribution I would like to suggest the following.
So that the main Text frame should be preserved as a WYSIWYG it seems obviousl that it has to be kept to look exactly how it will be printed.
Hidden Characters such as Page breaks, Soft returns, Anchored objects, Cross references, Index entries, Footnotes or Endnotes do take up space and will increase text flow if they appear and there should be somewhere where they are allowed to do so.
All of these may be shown in full in an editor, in fact the information could be extended to show the details of all anchored objects, such as file references for pictures, and even the full text of anchored text boxes.
In my experience of DTP the following DTP programs had editors for these very reasons. 
Wordperfect had a separate editor which showed style marks. Calamus for the Atari ST had one; Aldus Pagemaker had a story editor; InDesign, a Story Editor. 
Scribus has a Story Editor. Quark had CopyDesk (though you had to buy it). I'm not sure about Framemaker or Venturer as I could'nt afford to buy them.
And of course PagePlus had a very efficient one.
 

[fde101]

1 hour ago, jrkay said:

Quark had CopyDesk (though you had to buy it)

The current version of QuarkXPress has one built-in, not sure how long that has been the case.

[Fixx]

18 hours ago, jrkay said:

Hidden Characters such as Page breaks, Soft returns, Anchored objects, Cross references, Index entries, Footnotes or Endnotes do take up space and will increase text flow if they appear

No, they do not change text position.

[jrkay]

 

The showing of special characters may not interfere with the text flow, but they are so small and in blue so that they are still quite hard to see. This doesn't affect what Michail says, that on may edit a story as a complete block without having to move from one frame to the other.

 

[MikeW]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:42 AM, fde101 said:

The current version of QuarkXPress has one built-in, not sure how long that has been the case.

QXP's story editor has been around forever... CopyDesk, which is a separate product has been around since QXP 3. CopyDesk is to QuarkXPress as InCopy is to InDesign. They allow, among other things, to edit layouts or parts of layouts for copy-fitting purposes and do not require QXP/ID to operate.

[garrettm30]

I saw this thread linked in a recent feature request of the same nature. I have thought about making the suggestion myself, but I have hesitated because not every desired feature can make the cut for the first version. In my mind, this is a very useful feature, but if we have to draw the line, I can see how this would need to wait for a later version.

I am okay with that, but I do want to register my request to keep this feature in mind for some future update. I do use InDesign's story mode somewhat often (often enough that I access it by keyboard shortcut). For me, it is usually a troubleshooting step to get at the text "under the hood" without the formatting overhead (maybe it's the web programmer in me). Overset text is a good example of a use case that others have mentioned. Hidden text (such as text intended for running headers) is another good case scenario. To edit that text, the story editor is ideal, whereas otherwise there is no way to edit hidden text in WYSIWYG unless selecting it all and temporarily making it visible.

[jrkay]

I can appreciate that designers producing leaflets or PDFs would not require a text editor, the current tuition videos for the Beta make that abundantly clear.

I also find WritePlus very useful in PagePlus because it can show additional information that one can be sure will not be printed. Having the precise text style showing on the left of each paragraph is very useful, also the ability to show the exact number of spaces with dots as well as the details of index entries. I find the Story Editor invaluable when editing text heavy chapters in very long publications.

 The attached PNG shows the part of a WritePlus editor with all the features I have mentioned.

[Fixx]

5 hours ago, jrkay said:

I can appreciate that designers producing leaflets or PDFs

About everybody produce PDFs...about nobody sends native files to press.

I agree that story editor is useful (I found accidental use as my old copy of ID refused to let me edit text variables in master pages – I could though activate text object and edit it in story editor :-D )

Overset text though is perfectly findable with normal tools of preflight (which is also missing in Publisher) and text frame markers. 

Invisibles can be seen in normal work mode but I agree their visibility is rather weak in Publisher (small pale marks).

I though strongly prefer to do real word processing with a real word processing app. It is much more productive. I only do word processing with layout app for copy fitting purposes and for last minute corrections.

[jrkay]

I can appreciate that Fixx prefers to do his word Processing with a real word Processing app.

I notice that if I use Place to put a word file into Publisher, Word still has that adorable feature of transferring over a full set of styles into your document. This is something I avoid in Write Plus by using CTRL C and CTRL V to transfer text across.

Unless there is some way I haven't found yet in Publisher of avoiding this transfer of styles by Microsoft.

[Jowday]

I need a story editor because I have to change words, terms or entire paragraphs for many, many reasons beyond my control long after I receive them and place them. "Fun" before deadline. Customers, politicians, managers, communication experts or the common pygmy.  I belive this is a common scenario. It is not word processing like what the author did for days. It is final adjustments to the text or layout.

That work is clumsy and slow in the WYSIWYG page layout mode. Slow doesn't buy you food or clothes. Why would I wish to work in the worst mode available when I have to work with 40 or 100+ pages of text in complex layout? That is why you can work in outline mode or just view the selected object in Designer. Focus and speed! Thats why story editors exist. Somebody needs to focus on the text alone in the final phase. 

Whatever. If it makes sense to integrate Designer and Photo into Publisher - a story editor makes sense too. 

So, pretty please, with sugar on top, add a story editor.

[Richard S]

On 5/31/2019 at 10:38 PM, Jowday said:

I need a story editor because I have to change words, terms or entire paragraphs for many, many reasons beyond my control long after I receive them and place them. "Fun" before deadline. Customers, politicians, managers, communication experts or the common pygmy.  I belive this is a common scenario. It is not word processing like what the author did for days. It is final adjustments to the text or layout.

That work is clumsy and slow in the WYSIWYG page layout mode. Slow doesn't buy you food or clothes. Why would I wish to work in the worst mode available when I have to work with 40 or 100+ pages of text in complex layout? That is why you can work in outline mode or just view the selected object in Designer. Focus and speed! Thats why story editors exist. Somebody needs to focus on the text alone in the final phase. 

Whatever. If it makes sense to integrate Designer and Photo into Publisher - a story editor makes sense too. 

So, pretty please, with sugar on top, add a story editor.

Very much agree.

[PaoloT]

The Story Editor can be seen under a different, more general perspective: a Story Editor persona could be used to integrate an editorial system, where more contributors write text that will eventually converge in the final layout. Useful for checking on the designer side, useful for the writers to easily send text to the publication layout.

At this point Publisher would not only be a great personal publishing system, but can work well for a small editorial staff. 

Paolo

[LauraIlustrada]

1+ the story editor is an important tool I cant contribute more reasons that the others, an I agree and all them

[CDSstan]

I agree, a story editor is so important! I'm finishing a 28-page project and have spent the last hour zooming in on every page to check for problems. A story editor would have halved the time at least. Also, when I export a file I sometimes get a message that there is overset text. The dialog box only give me two choices: cancel or continue as is. A third choice that would be nice to have is 'go to story editor' to find the overset text.