Footnotes/Endnotes

[Pedrober]

I like the Apub interface, much more than the PPlus one. PPlus had a very long history. Apub is still in the 2.0 version (nearly). Please remember what InDesign was in its 2.0 version.

[MJWHM]

4 minutes ago, Pedrober said:

I like the Apub interface, much more than the PPlus one. PPlus had a very long history. Apub is still in the 2.0 version (nearly). Please remember what InDesign was in its 2.0 version.

I had PagePlus from a very early iteration, and it usually did what I wanted. But there is a significant difference - the facilities that existed in the most recent version of PP had gone through development by Serif and therefore one might reasonably hope that the ideas and methods might make it easier to adopt them in any new software. The actual programming may be different, but the logic for a particular feature must be the same, surely? If we know that the way to do a particular job is t adjust x or y then it should be  transferable skill. I think the problem has been or is that the company may think that the only significant form of publication is either magazine-style or e-publication. I hope I am wrong, but in truth I have lost a lot of my faith in them and I have backed them since before 2008 (as far back as my emails go).

 

[Pyanepsion]

When comparing an old software with a recent version, we usually tend to overestimate it.

Sim City has been a bestseller since its release. It looked like this:

It now looks like this. What's in common? And yet, we regularly find messages lamenting that the current game does not take up all the concepts of the initial game.

PagePlus was good software. It was at the time of a very old Windows, and a very small screen, and a a limited operating system. It has as much to do as comparing a bicycle and a latest generation motorcycle. The brake system cannot be the same!

Strongly on November 9th.😀

[PatrickOfLondon]

Your point is well made and well understood.

But at least the modern motorcycle still has a braking system, just like the old bicycle did – and probably an even more effective one...
it hasn't completely thrown away its braking system, in the process of becoming "new".

Anyway, that's enough moaning from a nostalgic PPX9 user. Let's hope November 9th brings enough benefits and features to keep (most) people happy.

☺️

[affinota]

what I don't understand, why Serif doesn't comment here and reveal the plans concerning the footnotes. Or is it just a marketing problem? It would be nice to have clear official comment on that!

[MJWHM]

10 minutes ago, PatrickOfLondon said:

Your point is well made and well understood.

But at least the modern motorcycle still has a braking system, just like the old bicycle did – and probably an even more effective one...
it hasn't completely thrown away its braking system, in the process of becoming "new".

Anyway, that's enough moaning from a nostalgic PPX9 user. Let's hope November 9th brings enough benefits and features to keep (most) people happy.

☺️

Excellent response. Good to have disagreements without vituperation.

[Trevor A]

Agreed!

[Ramon56]

3 hours ago, Pyanepsion said:

PagePlus was good software. It was at the time of a very old Windows, and a very small screen, and a a limited operating system. It has as much to do as comparing a bicycle and a latest generation motorcycle. The brake system cannot be the same!

Strongly on November 9th.😀

True, but PagePlus had ESSENTIAL features (such as footnotes/endnotes) and combination of different files that AP STILL does not have! (Can you imagine a motorcycle without a brake?)

19 hours ago, ernie-f said:

I think we would get an paid update to 2.0.

If there is the footnote/endnote realized, it will be "maybe" worth the money! So for me.

Same here. BUT I am going to make certain before paying a dime that it has the features that I need (including of course footnotes/endnotes). I won't be cheated a second time.

[walt.farrell]

27 minutes ago, Ramon56 said:

BUT I am going to make certain before paying a dime that it has the features that I need (including of course footnotes/endnotes). I won't be cheated a second time.

Cheated?

When Publisher was introduced there was a long public beta period, where users could discover missing functions such as Footnotes. After the beta, users could have a 10-day Trial period. And even an additional 14-day money-back guarantee period if they purchased directly from Serif, for a total of a 24-day trial period.

Additionally, the marketing material in the Affinity Store listed all the functions the program provided.

[spinko]

9 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Cheated?

When Publisher was introduced there was a long public beta period, where users could discover missing functions such as Footnotes. After the beta, users could have a 10-day Trial period. And even an additional 14-day money-back guarantee period if they purchased directly from Serif, for a total of a 24-day trial period.

Additionally, the marketing material in the Affinity Store listed all the functions the program provided.

No, I don't think so. But maybe expectations where a bit high and it has been literally years these apps have been stuck in version 1.x.

[Trevor A]

Ramon said "BUT I am going to make certain before paying a dime that it has the features that I need (including of course footnotes/endnotes). I won't be cheated a second time."

Well said!

I did not read the detailed description before buying, the same as I don't read the conditions that I supposedly agree to when installing software.  Nor does anyone, I expect (apart perhaps from a few lawyers with nothing better to do with their time).

And what is 10 days - or even 24 days - when one is starting out with such a complex program?  Most of us also have other calls on our time and even though I viewed as soon as possible as many Serif videos as possible, I didn't discover the lack of support for footnotes until I was importing the text of a book into Affinity Publisher.  Even then, I assumed that doing this was just another feature that I had not yet learnt.  Starting with a program like this is overwhelming, with hundreds of details to be learnt.

The 50 pages of comments and complaints on this subject on this forum are ample testimony to the disappointment and shock of purchasers when they discovered that such a fundamental feature was missing.  Frankly, without it, Affinity Publisher does not merit serious consideration.

 

[Last Chance]

@Trevor AWell said to you. Absolutely on the nail.

[Will Wallace]

1 hour ago, Trevor A said:

And what is 10 days - or even 24 days - when one is starting out with such a complex program?  Most of us also have other calls on our time and even though I viewed as soon as possible as many Serif videos as possible, I didn't discover the lack of support for footnotes until I was importing the text of a book into Affinity Publisher.  Even then, I assumed that doing this was just another feature that I had not yet learnt.  Starting with a program like this is overwhelming, with hundreds of details to be learnt.

 

Exactly. Ten days for a trial period is nothing. I don't consider a 30-day trial period to be long enough. I have a number of life activities and commitments competing for my time. Ten days isn't enough time to thoroughly wring out a new program even if you can devote all your waking hours in those ten days to testing the program. Most people can't do anything close to that.

[spinko]

27 minutes ago, Will Wallace said:

Exactly. Ten days for a trial period is nothing. I don't consider a 30-day trial period to be long enough. I have a number of life activities and commitments competing for my time. Ten days isn't enough time to thoroughly wring out a new program even if you can devote all your waking hours in those ten days to testing the program. Most people can't do anything close to that.

It didn't take me a day to find out that Publisher wasn't goint to replace InDesign any time soon... but I bought it anyways to show support for the development of a more mature release. But I must admit, it is / has been a long wait.

[Ramon56]

3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Cheated?

When Publisher was introduced there was a long public beta period, where users could discover missing functions such as Footnotes. After the beta, users could have a 10-day Trial period. And even an additional 14-day money-back guarantee period if they purchased directly from Serif, for a total of a 24-day trial period.

Additionally, the marketing material in the Affinity Store listed all the functions the program provided.

 

I have far better things to do than evaluating beta software. You may have all the time in the world, but I certainly don't. 10 days for evaluation  is also far too short, and it takes also quite a lot of time to master a complex program, even assuming that you can dedicate a lot of time to it (which I couldn't). By the time I realized that this feature was missing, it was too late for the money-back (which I certainly would have requested).

Now, the statement that the marketing material lists all functions is plain nonsense. Does it tell that you can underline, use italics or bold? That you can use different fonts? That you can indent paragraphs or space different lines? No, it doesn't, yet those capabilities are there. When people buy such a program, they consider that certain things are so fundamental that they take them for granted. I certainly did NOT expect that AP would NOT have such a basic feature as footnotes and endnotes, which are included in simple word processors such as MS Word, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, or even WPS Writer. Why would I buy AP if it has LESS features than a word processor?

So yes, I feel absolutely cheated.

[PaoloT]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:11 PM, Ramon56 said:

included in simple word processors

It's quite funny to see Publisher called "word processor". What it is is even written in the name…

Paolo

 

[Ramon56]

3 hours ago, PaoloT said:

It's quite funny to see Publisher called "word processor". What it is is even written in the name…

Paolo

 

Pulisher is "supposed" to be BETTER than word processors for publishing... yet it has less publishing capabilities than those.

[Pyanepsion]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:11 PM, Ramon56 said:

Why would I buy [Affinity Publisher] if it has LESS features than a word processor?

Affinity Publisher is obviously not a word processor, but a DTP program.
Yes, like QuarkXPress and Indesign before it (and others) for many years, the footnotes we miss. For everything else, it remains the most powerful and fastest!
Let's wait for the 9th.We'll see.

[Pedrober]

First releases of InDesign didn't support footnotes. Even now, QXP has a poor footnotes support.

[PaoloT]

2 hours ago, Pedrober said:

First releases of InDesign didn't support footnotes. Even now, QXP has a poor footnotes support.

And InDesign footnotes are really basic. At the same level of a wordprocessor, and not of a creative tool. With a book I've been working to during these months, we had to invent a way to manually create streams of notes.

During this discussion there were many interesting ideas on how Serif could develop a more powerful and flexibly system of notes. Let's hope they will do. And not base them of wordprocessors.

Paolo

 

[Last Chance]

@PaoloTI trust you divulged your findings to Serif?

[PaoloT]

1 hour ago, Last Chance said:

@PaoloTI trust you divulged your findings to Serif?

This thread goes on for fifty pages. There is quite a bit of "findings" here and there…

Paolo

 

[Trevor A]

Well said, Paolo.

[Trevor A]

The recent posting from "Just my 2c" (whoever that is) does not appear to conform to community guidelines on politeness.  Perhaps that why his/her post seems to have been removed.

It is possible to be clear without being offensive.

My understanding is that this forum aims to be a supportive environment, while also reporting bugs, problems and frustrations to Serif.

[Ralph]

... though I still can't help comparing Publisher with my car:

My car has so many "features" that, after a year, I am still discovering the nuances of the parking sensor feature.
It also has all four wheels. My previous car had few features, but it also had 4 wheels. I could use my old car, perhaps with a touch of envy for my neighbour - whose car had lots features, and 4 wheels. I wouldn't envy my neighbour even if his car could fly, if it had a wheel missing.

Afffinity, to me, can orbit the Earth - but Publisher  has a wheel missing,
It is SO frustrating !!!