Footnotes/Endnotes

[Trevor A]

Ramon said "BUT I am going to make certain before paying a dime that it has the features that I need (including of course footnotes/endnotes). I won't be cheated a second time."

Well said!

I did not read the detailed description before buying, the same as I don't read the conditions that I supposedly agree to when installing software.  Nor does anyone, I expect (apart perhaps from a few lawyers with nothing better to do with their time).

And what is 10 days - or even 24 days - when one is starting out with such a complex program?  Most of us also have other calls on our time and even though I viewed as soon as possible as many Serif videos as possible, I didn't discover the lack of support for footnotes until I was importing the text of a book into Affinity Publisher.  Even then, I assumed that doing this was just another feature that I had not yet learnt.  Starting with a program like this is overwhelming, with hundreds of details to be learnt.

The 50 pages of comments and complaints on this subject on this forum are ample testimony to the disappointment and shock of purchasers when they discovered that such a fundamental feature was missing.  Frankly, without it, Affinity Publisher does not merit serious consideration.

 

[Last Chance]

@Trevor AWell said to you. Absolutely on the nail.

[Will Wallace]

1 hour ago, Trevor A said:

And what is 10 days - or even 24 days - when one is starting out with such a complex program?  Most of us also have other calls on our time and even though I viewed as soon as possible as many Serif videos as possible, I didn't discover the lack of support for footnotes until I was importing the text of a book into Affinity Publisher.  Even then, I assumed that doing this was just another feature that I had not yet learnt.  Starting with a program like this is overwhelming, with hundreds of details to be learnt.

 

Exactly. Ten days for a trial period is nothing. I don't consider a 30-day trial period to be long enough. I have a number of life activities and commitments competing for my time. Ten days isn't enough time to thoroughly wring out a new program even if you can devote all your waking hours in those ten days to testing the program. Most people can't do anything close to that.

[spinko]

27 minutes ago, Will Wallace said:

Exactly. Ten days for a trial period is nothing. I don't consider a 30-day trial period to be long enough. I have a number of life activities and commitments competing for my time. Ten days isn't enough time to thoroughly wring out a new program even if you can devote all your waking hours in those ten days to testing the program. Most people can't do anything close to that.

It didn't take me a day to find out that Publisher wasn't goint to replace InDesign any time soon... but I bought it anyways to show support for the development of a more mature release. But I must admit, it is / has been a long wait.

[Ramon56]

3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Cheated?

When Publisher was introduced there was a long public beta period, where users could discover missing functions such as Footnotes. After the beta, users could have a 10-day Trial period. And even an additional 14-day money-back guarantee period if they purchased directly from Serif, for a total of a 24-day trial period.

Additionally, the marketing material in the Affinity Store listed all the functions the program provided.

 

I have far better things to do than evaluating beta software. You may have all the time in the world, but I certainly don't. 10 days for evaluation  is also far too short, and it takes also quite a lot of time to master a complex program, even assuming that you can dedicate a lot of time to it (which I couldn't). By the time I realized that this feature was missing, it was too late for the money-back (which I certainly would have requested).

Now, the statement that the marketing material lists all functions is plain nonsense. Does it tell that you can underline, use italics or bold? That you can use different fonts? That you can indent paragraphs or space different lines? No, it doesn't, yet those capabilities are there. When people buy such a program, they consider that certain things are so fundamental that they take them for granted. I certainly did NOT expect that AP would NOT have such a basic feature as footnotes and endnotes, which are included in simple word processors such as MS Word, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, or even WPS Writer. Why would I buy AP if it has LESS features than a word processor?

So yes, I feel absolutely cheated.

[PaoloT]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:11 PM, Ramon56 said:

included in simple word processors

It's quite funny to see Publisher called "word processor". What it is is even written in the name…

Paolo

 

[Ramon56]

3 hours ago, PaoloT said:

It's quite funny to see Publisher called "word processor". What it is is even written in the name…

Paolo

 

Pulisher is "supposed" to be BETTER than word processors for publishing... yet it has less publishing capabilities than those.

[Pyanepsion]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:11 PM, Ramon56 said:

Why would I buy [Affinity Publisher] if it has LESS features than a word processor?

Affinity Publisher is obviously not a word processor, but a DTP program.
Yes, like QuarkXPress and Indesign before it (and others) for many years, the footnotes we miss. For everything else, it remains the most powerful and fastest!
Let's wait for the 9th.We'll see.

[Pedrober]

First releases of InDesign didn't support footnotes. Even now, QXP has a poor footnotes support.

[PaoloT]

2 hours ago, Pedrober said:

First releases of InDesign didn't support footnotes. Even now, QXP has a poor footnotes support.

And InDesign footnotes are really basic. At the same level of a wordprocessor, and not of a creative tool. With a book I've been working to during these months, we had to invent a way to manually create streams of notes.

During this discussion there were many interesting ideas on how Serif could develop a more powerful and flexibly system of notes. Let's hope they will do. And not base them of wordprocessors.

Paolo

 

[Last Chance]

@PaoloTI trust you divulged your findings to Serif?

[PaoloT]

1 hour ago, Last Chance said:

@PaoloTI trust you divulged your findings to Serif?

This thread goes on for fifty pages. There is quite a bit of "findings" here and there…

Paolo

 

[Trevor A]

Well said, Paolo.

[Trevor A]

The recent posting from "Just my 2c" (whoever that is) does not appear to conform to community guidelines on politeness.  Perhaps that why his/her post seems to have been removed.

It is possible to be clear without being offensive.

My understanding is that this forum aims to be a supportive environment, while also reporting bugs, problems and frustrations to Serif.

[Ralph]

... though I still can't help comparing Publisher with my car:

My car has so many "features" that, after a year, I am still discovering the nuances of the parking sensor feature.
It also has all four wheels. My previous car had few features, but it also had 4 wheels. I could use my old car, perhaps with a touch of envy for my neighbour - whose car had lots features, and 4 wheels. I wouldn't envy my neighbour even if his car could fly, if it had a wheel missing.

Afffinity, to me, can orbit the Earth - but Publisher  has a wheel missing,
It is SO frustrating !!!

 

[Trevor A]

Lovely comparison, and written with humour.  That's more the style of this forum, I think

[Amontillado]

It will be interesting to see what the ninth brings.

Speaking of which, they always say the sun's over the yardarm somewhere. Isn't it already the ninth on the other side of the date line?

I'm having anxiety. I'm really interested in Affinity's next big thing.

My current use case is kind of offbeat. I'm waging war against a crooked tax office, although I recognize that's probably a redundant description, with high-zen reports of misdeeds.

Why write a letter to a legislator when you can produce your own underground newspaper? Affinity Publisher, weaponized against dubious public officials, is a lot of fun. Risky, but fun.

[Trevor A]

Lovely comparison, and written with humour.  That's more the style of this forum, I think

[Trevor A]

Their website says "FOOTNOTES, ENDNOTES AND SIDENOTES" (!!!!!!!!!!!!)
but when I tried to log in earlier I got a message that their website was down.

I have seen their prices for new buyers, but what is the deal for existing users (who have given them some "gentle" indications of the direction to go!)?

[furtonb]

[garrettm30]

8 minutes ago, Trevor A said:

I have seen their prices for new buyers, but what is the deal for existing users (who have given them some "gentle" indications of the direction to go!)?

There is not any particular upgrade discount, and here is a reason stated for that (Ashley Hewson is being quoted in a post a post by Patrick):

On 11/7/2022 at 9:49 AM, Patrick Connor said:

“For our existing customers we have also been very conscious that, considering many of our sales are generated via app stores, it’s not possible to provide upgrade pricing. That’s the main reason we have decided to offer such a large launch discount – to give users a chance to upgrade at an incredible price.”

I personally feel that the pricing is fair, as infrequent as the paid updates are (this is the first in Affinities' whole existence). 

 

 

 

[Pedrober]

I can't test footnotes because I' using Mojave and it's not supported. Anyhow, I would be very grateful if someone could verify that footnotes are supported in IDML import.

[Ramon56]

Well, it seems that the long, long wait is over. I have not checked it yet, but even a basic functionality will remove quite a few grey hairs.

I have not seen anything about Word import of footnotes and endnotes, so I'll have to test that out.

On the other hand, I have seen a very nice feature that PagePlus had and was missing, which is the combination of different Publisher documents as chapters into a single book. This is great, I can assure you, specially when you have books with hundreds of pages!

[Pedrober]

I have downloaded a Windows trial version (it works in my very old Windows machine!) and, unfortunately, footnotes are not yet supported in IDML import.

[Acopalico]

1 hour ago, Pedrober said:

I can't test footnotes because I' using Mojave and it's not supported. Anyhow, I would be very grateful if someone could verify that footnotes are supported in IDML import.

I just downloaded the trial version and the first thing I did was to test if it imported footnotes from an idml file. Well, it didn't. I wanted to switch the work I'm currently working on to Publisher, but with 576 pages and several hundred notes, it's impossible. (There are also some problems with importing, but I'll look at that in more detail later).
I'll be testing footnotes extensively on other work in the next few days.