Roughen Curves

[Kuttyjoe]

On 11/27/2019 at 5:52 AM, Lorox said:

I know we shouldn't always bring in Adobe Illustrator for comparison

I don't see anything wrong with pointing to another software as reference.  I suppose it feels weird since Illustrator is where most of the ideas are coming from, while most people are running away from Illustrator.  LOL  That may feel a little odd.  But when one software company copies from another, consumers win.  It gives us choice.

[JET_Affinity]

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I don't see anything wrong with pointing to another software as reference.

Of course there's nothing wrong with comparing to other programs, and nothing wrong with mentioning Adobe Illustrator (by name; no need to 'encode' it). That's not the issue.

The issue is that too many users effectively demand that something 'absolutely essential' (everyone's pet feature is the most 'absolutely essential deal-breaking omission that must be addressed right now, or else!') be implemented just like it is in Illustrator, under the assumption that just because Adobe dominates the market, Illustrator's treatment must be 'best'. It's often rather transparent that many of the most vehement demands come from people who seem to have little to no experience with anything else.

Generally speaking, Illustrator's interface is hideous; cumbersome, scattered, confused, inconsistent, redundant. In a word, very inelegant. It's not the program to emulate. We need to get over Illustrator so we can, at long last, get beyond Illustrator.

Quote

…when one software company copies from another, consumers win.  It gives us choice.

No. When one software company merely mimics another, that does not give us choice; we just get the same ol' same ol' conventional-wisdom approach and the 2D vector drawing segment continues to languish in its current functional mediocrity.

When customers (I don't like being referred to as a consumer; I'm a producer) win, is when they demand better and an attentive provider listens.

So sure; whenever we find ourselves missing something we depend upon, we should feel free to describe how it works in whatever program we're accustomed to for explanatory purposes. But we should put more effort into it than just that. Try thinking through what the feature really does, why it's important, and imagine how the desired functionality could be advanced rather than merely mimicked in "me, too" fashion.

JET

[JET_Affinity]

In the current context of roughening paths, other FreeHand users may recall that a few versions before its acquistion by Adobe, Macromedia added a simple "fractal" option that basically:

1. divided straight segments into thirds
2. reshaped the middle third (for example, making it into a peak)
3. repeated that same alteration on the segments of that peak
4. …and repeated that for a user-specified number of iterations.

Something else to consider is, what are we really doing when using a "roughen" command? Usually, we're trying add an element of apparent "randomness" within the otherwise generally deliberate and pristine world of vector-based illustration.

I recall a thread years ago in the Illustrator forum in which one of its developers who occasionally participated back then mentioned that the only true random function in Illustrator was that little checkbox in the Transform Each dialog.

I use that quite often, and have always wondered why, in math-driven vector drawing programs of all things, the random() math function isn't leveraged throughout the feature set.

I'd love for the developers to always have that as a "checklist" question in the back of their mind whenever designing a new drawing function: "How could this construct benefit by providing a random function?"

Combine the two: Imagine being able to generate various shapes of repetitive "branching" with an appearance of natural randomness, but under control of a few sliders for parameters like frequency and decay.

JET

[ANGRYMAN]

Are we talking about he ability to achieve the below? I originally made this poster yonks ago in Illustrator and wanted to remake it in Designer. I seem to remember that in AI I just applied an effect to the path in the main panel and it crumpled it but can't find an equivalent in designer as yet.

[ANGRYMAN]

...in fact this is the tool I believe? Very helpful ability that isn't an option as yet in Designer?

[JET_Affinity]

A few examples of what I'm talking about regarding providing more randomizing options in general:

Random Object Fill

Random Baseline Shift

Random Style

Random Transparency

Random Replace Symbol

 

Not meaning to derail the thread from the topic of a well-designed roughen feature (with which I agree); just a generalization that I find it a curious oversight that math based vector drawing programs don't provide for leveraging a random function in more command option settings.

JET

 

 

[David Edge]

+1 please - in my case I simply want to roughen the outline of text so simulate a typewriter. I was more than a little surprised that having converted the text to curves that I couldn't roughen the vectors. Maybe playing around with some sort of brush effect on the path will help, but currently in a hurry...

[Alfred]

56 minutes ago, David Edge said:

currently in a hurry...

Do it in Inkscape and then import the saved SVG file into Affinity Designer.

[ANGRYMAN]

On 6/29/2020 at 12:54 PM, Alfred said:

Do it in Inkscape and then import the saved SVG file into Affinity Designer.

Not a good suggestion for paid software as people may find they can do what they need to with said software and just use that.

[evtonic3]

+1

[Jowday]

I use slight roughen a lot in other programs to avoid an artificial look in drawings. A more organic look for vector designs. Sometimes I use it more. But always to speed up the proces of drawing something that must not look like a perfect straight line or bezier curve.

In these scenarios alone it is a HUGE time saver that saves me from House of pointless, idiotic Clicking. 

[Isabelle Lafontaine]

+1. I do it in Inkscape. It's extra steps. Trace bitmap would be another cool feature. I do it in Inkscape too.

[DaryaF]

+1

 

[Lorox]

Just added a reralated comment on a related thread https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/40462-roughen-edges-expand-art-stroke/... Yeah, being able to roughen a path – leaving it pure vector – is still a feature that's really missed. Designer's "vector brushes" (being pixel based nevertheless...) are just no viable alternative to achieve REAL 100% vector graphics.

 

[QueenSimia]

Another +1. I use the Roughen filter a lot for speech bubbles in comic lettering, and having to emulate it by hand in Designer adds a lot of unnecessary work time. I want to abandon Adobe completely, and this is literally the only feature keeping me from doing so.

[Alfred]

38 minutes ago, QueenSimia said:

I want to abandon Adobe completely, and this is literally the only feature keeping me from doing so.

Welcome to the Serif Affinity Forums, @QueenSimia.

As noted just three posts before yours, you can roughen curves in Inkscape. Although it’s an extra step it’s a simple round trip, so if this feature really is all that you use your Adobe subscription for then there’s no need to keep it going.

[Lorox]

42 minutes ago, Alfred said:

As noted just three posts before yours, you can roughen curves in Inkscape. Although it’s an extra step it’s a simple round trip, so if this feature really is all that you use your Adobe subscription for then there’s no need to keep it going.

If you're really serious about it, this is sort of true, but in my experience the "round trip" putting Inkscape into the route is not THAT simple. When I made just that trip myself I found that roughening curves in Inkscape works rather nicely but actually produces pixel content which needs to traced to be made into curves again. Luckily you can do that in one more step in Inkscape and then export as SVG. So it IS a bit of "technical" effort, which in a more spontaneous artistic workflow you'd normally want to avoid.

It seems to me that it is actually a noticeable shortcoming of Designer that out of the box you cannot create pure vector artwork that more or less emulates natural media, while Adobe Illustrator has been capable of allowing you to do just this for years and years by now. Given that quite a lot of Digital Artists really love that natural media vibe in a strict vektor context (as you can see in so many places) I find it quite strange that in Designer this has been left out from the beginning and has not been added since.

I'd really think many more artists/illustrators would "embrace" Designer and make the switch if such features would finally find their way into the app...

[JariH]

Absolutelly!

[2ddpainter]

@JariH

Roughen shapes or Strokes, smoothing, real vector brush
(Shape Effects) and many more
can recommed to take a look at VectorStyler

[Alfred]

48 minutes ago, 2ddpainter said:

take a look at VectorStyler

VectorStyler is great, but it’s only available for Mac and Windows, and it costs US$95. Thanks to the current half-price sale, you can purchase an Affinity V2 Universal Licence (giving you the entire suite on Mac, Windows, and iPad) for US$82.99.

[2ddpainter]

2 hours ago, Alfred said:

VectorStyler is great, but it’s only available for Mac and Windows, and it costs US$95. Thanks to the current half-price sale, you can purchase an Affinity V2 Universal Licence (giving you the entire suite on Mac, Windows, and iPad) for US$82.99.

And still not get the features mentioned above and keep waiting until
that may gets implemented.

[Boldlinedesign]

On 6/21/2024 at 6:55 AM, Alfred said:

VectorStyler is great, but it’s only available for Mac and Windows, and it costs US$95. Thanks to the current half-price sale, you can purchase an Affinity V2 Universal Licence (giving you the entire suite on Mac, Windows, and iPad) for US$82.99.

Affinity took one  approach, essentially spreading resources thin by created three apps for three operating systems. This allows for users to utilize all three major design needs right away, but it also means features are going to be lacking in all three apps. Vectorstyler took a different approach and focused exclusively on a feature rich and powerful vector editing software. Hopefully one day there will also be a Photoshop and InDesign replacement in the Vectorstyler world. In the meantime, why not support both affinity and vectorstyler? Use Designer as your primary vector design program if you wish and pull up Vectorstyler to solve the issues where Designer is lacking. 

Back in the day I owned the Macromedia suite as well as adobe. Today I own affinity and vectorstyler as well as several other programs that together effectively replace adobe in my workflow

Both the cost of the affinity suite and vectorstyler at full price are still amazing deals when you consider the alternative of paying adobe monthly. Vectorstyler also has sales occasionally throughout the year, but even full price is a bargain. 

[Alfred]

2 hours ago, Boldlinedesign said:

Affinity took one  approach, essentially spreading resources thin by created three apps for three operating systems. This allows for users to utilize all three major design needs right away, but it also means features are going to be lacking in all three apps. Vectorstyler took a different approach and focused exclusively on a feature rich and powerful vector editing software.

VectorStyler is developed by a one-man band, which makes its capabilities all the more amazing.

2 hours ago, Boldlinedesign said:

Vectorstyler also has sales occasionally throughout the year, but even full price is a bargain.

It was deeply discounted when I bought it. I really couldn’t have justified spending anywhere near a hundred bucks for my very occasional use, but if you’re a professional designer it’s likely to be worth every penny you spend on it.

[Michael B 119]

With Affinity Designer 2 out, I’d like to request this feature also.

One of the few things holding me back from completely switching from Illustrator to Designer is the lack of a wrinkle or roughen tool (I use the wrinkle tool mostly.) So, I’m forced to use Illustrator for certain things.

Illustrator lets me adjust the level of “distortion” applied to a straight line so I can add in just the right amount of a hand-drawn look — and that is dependent on the work’s audience and appearance scale.

Here’s an example of the hand-drawn look with different levels of application strength. It’s a continuous line drawing which I started on the iPad in Tayasui Sketches (my initial drawing appears too “shaky” for my taste,) made less-shaky and uniform in Illustrator, then I applied the wrinkle tool in Illustrator to give me back my hand-drawn look.

This a high resolution image example so you may zoom in and see the line detail more clearly. For example, compare the edges of "As Drawn, no Distortion” with those in “Wrinkle Tool Setting #3.” The wrinkle tool gives me back the hand-drawn look, and I wish Affinity Designer 2 had this feature!

https://i.imghippo.com/files/uI0Tq1724000791.png!

 

[Lorox]

13 hours ago, Michael B 119 said:

I wish Affinity Designer 2 had this feature!

Yeah, absolutely. As a look that's a bit "organic/handdrawn" seems so natural for so many styles of (even vector) graphics I really don’t understand why the Affinity guys have been neglecting this "vein" of doing things for so long now. The things Illustrator had to offer via its "Effects“ and/or "Filters“ (or the kind of corresponding tools) have been such a welcome extension to the basic tools of vector graphics for getting just the right look of "the line" that I, too, have to get back to my old computer with AI on it every once in a while... ("Real“ vector brushes being another)