Roughen Curves

[Kuttyjoe]

On 11/27/2019 at 5:52 AM, Lorox said:

I know we shouldn't always bring in Adobe Illustrator for comparison

I don't see anything wrong with pointing to another software as reference.  I suppose it feels weird since Illustrator is where most of the ideas are coming from, while most people are running away from Illustrator.  LOL  That may feel a little odd.  But when one software company copies from another, consumers win.  It gives us choice.

[JET_Affinity]

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I don't see anything wrong with pointing to another software as reference.

Of course there's nothing wrong with comparing to other programs, and nothing wrong with mentioning Adobe Illustrator (by name; no need to 'encode' it). That's not the issue.

The issue is that too many users effectively demand that something 'absolutely essential' (everyone's pet feature is the most 'absolutely essential deal-breaking omission that must be addressed right now, or else!') be implemented just like it is in Illustrator, under the assumption that just because Adobe dominates the market, Illustrator's treatment must be 'best'. It's often rather transparent that many of the most vehement demands come from people who seem to have little to no experience with anything else.

Generally speaking, Illustrator's interface is hideous; cumbersome, scattered, confused, inconsistent, redundant. In a word, very inelegant. It's not the program to emulate. We need to get over Illustrator so we can, at long last, get beyond Illustrator.

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…when one software company copies from another, consumers win.  It gives us choice.

No. When one software company merely mimics another, that does not give us choice; we just get the same ol' same ol' conventional-wisdom approach and the 2D vector drawing segment continues to languish in its current functional mediocrity.

When customers (I don't like being referred to as a consumer; I'm a producer) win, is when they demand better and an attentive provider listens.

So sure; whenever we find ourselves missing something we depend upon, we should feel free to describe how it works in whatever program we're accustomed to for explanatory purposes. But we should put more effort into it than just that. Try thinking through what the feature really does, why it's important, and imagine how the desired functionality could be advanced rather than merely mimicked in "me, too" fashion.

JET

[JET_Affinity]

In the current context of roughening paths, other FreeHand users may recall that a few versions before its acquistion by Adobe, Macromedia added a simple "fractal" option that basically:

1. divided straight segments into thirds
2. reshaped the middle third (for example, making it into a peak)
3. repeated that same alteration on the segments of that peak
4. …and repeated that for a user-specified number of iterations.

Something else to consider is, what are we really doing when using a "roughen" command? Usually, we're trying add an element of apparent "randomness" within the otherwise generally deliberate and pristine world of vector-based illustration.

I recall a thread years ago in the Illustrator forum in which one of its developers who occasionally participated back then mentioned that the only true random function in Illustrator was that little checkbox in the Transform Each dialog.

I use that quite often, and have always wondered why, in math-driven vector drawing programs of all things, the random() math function isn't leveraged throughout the feature set.

I'd love for the developers to always have that as a "checklist" question in the back of their mind whenever designing a new drawing function: "How could this construct benefit by providing a random function?"

Combine the two: Imagine being able to generate various shapes of repetitive "branching" with an appearance of natural randomness, but under control of a few sliders for parameters like frequency and decay.

JET

[ANGRYMAN]

Are we talking about he ability to achieve the below? I originally made this poster yonks ago in Illustrator and wanted to remake it in Designer. I seem to remember that in AI I just applied an effect to the path in the main panel and it crumpled it but can't find an equivalent in designer as yet.

[ANGRYMAN]

...in fact this is the tool I believe? Very helpful ability that isn't an option as yet in Designer?

[JET_Affinity]

A few examples of what I'm talking about regarding providing more randomizing options in general:

Random Object Fill

Random Baseline Shift

Random Style

Random Transparency

Random Replace Symbol

 

Not meaning to derail the thread from the topic of a well-designed roughen feature (with which I agree); just a generalization that I find it a curious oversight that math based vector drawing programs don't provide for leveraging a random function in more command option settings.

JET

 

 

[David Edge]

+1 please - in my case I simply want to roughen the outline of text so simulate a typewriter. I was more than a little surprised that having converted the text to curves that I couldn't roughen the vectors. Maybe playing around with some sort of brush effect on the path will help, but currently in a hurry...

[Alfred]

56 minutes ago, David Edge said:

currently in a hurry...

Do it in Inkscape and then import the saved SVG file into Affinity Designer.

[ANGRYMAN]

On 6/29/2020 at 12:54 PM, Alfred said:

Do it in Inkscape and then import the saved SVG file into Affinity Designer.

Not a good suggestion for paid software as people may find they can do what they need to with said software and just use that.

[evtonic3]

+1

[Jowday]

I use slight roughen a lot in other programs to avoid an artificial look in drawings. A more organic look for vector designs. Sometimes I use it more. But always to speed up the proces of drawing something that must not look like a perfect straight line or bezier curve.

In these scenarios alone it is a HUGE time saver that saves me from House of pointless, idiotic Clicking. 

[Isabelle Lafontaine]

+1. I do it in Inkscape. It's extra steps. Trace bitmap would be another cool feature. I do it in Inkscape too.

[DaryaF]

+1

 

[Lorox]

Just added a reralated comment on a related thread https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/40462-roughen-edges-expand-art-stroke/... Yeah, being able to roughen a path – leaving it pure vector – is still a feature that's really missed. Designer's "vector brushes" (being pixel based nevertheless...) are just no viable alternative to achieve REAL 100% vector graphics.

 

[QueenSimia]

Another +1. I use the Roughen filter a lot for speech bubbles in comic lettering, and having to emulate it by hand in Designer adds a lot of unnecessary work time. I want to abandon Adobe completely, and this is literally the only feature keeping me from doing so.

[Alfred]

38 minutes ago, QueenSimia said:

I want to abandon Adobe completely, and this is literally the only feature keeping me from doing so.

Welcome to the Serif Affinity Forums, @QueenSimia.

As noted just three posts before yours, you can roughen curves in Inkscape. Although it’s an extra step it’s a simple round trip, so if this feature really is all that you use your Adobe subscription for then there’s no need to keep it going.

[Lorox]

42 minutes ago, Alfred said:

As noted just three posts before yours, you can roughen curves in Inkscape. Although it’s an extra step it’s a simple round trip, so if this feature really is all that you use your Adobe subscription for then there’s no need to keep it going.

If you're really serious about it, this is sort of true, but in my experience the "round trip" putting Inkscape into the route is not THAT simple. When I made just that trip myself I found that roughening curves in Inkscape works rather nicely but actually produces pixel content which needs to traced to be made into curves again. Luckily you can do that in one more step in Inkscape and then export as SVG. So it IS a bit of "technical" effort, which in a more spontaneous artistic workflow you'd normally want to avoid.

It seems to me that it is actually a noticeable shortcoming of Designer that out of the box you cannot create pure vector artwork that more or less emulates natural media, while Adobe Illustrator has been capable of allowing you to do just this for years and years by now. Given that quite a lot of Digital Artists really love that natural media vibe in a strict vektor context (as you can see in so many places) I find it quite strange that in Designer this has been left out from the beginning and has not been added since.

I'd really think many more artists/illustrators would "embrace" Designer and make the switch if such features would finally find their way into the app...