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Expand Stroke improvement request (split/moved posts)


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On 9/18/2017 at 0:26 AM, Oval said:

30390599tu.jpg

 

No further tweaks of “Expand Stroke” or will we get the same quality like in other apps in the next beta?

Hi Oval,

Could you attach the document you are using that gives you this result please? I just tried it myself on a rectangle with corners added using the Corner Tool, both baked and non-baked and didn't see the warping you are. See video.

ExpandStroke.mov

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Oval,

This is the most confusing thing for me in regards to the Expand Stroke. For me it is greatly improved. I can make a line with two nodes with round caps and have the width of the stroke be a small point size (within reason) or a large point size. The only time I get distorted objects like the examples you have posted it is when I have a very small point size for the width of the line, and then I would have to zoom in considerably to see the difference between the two objects. For example, yeah I can make a line with two nodes and give it a width of .2 pt, duplicate that line and use Expand Stroke on it, and yeah, the shape is not ideal and looks like your examples. But for me to even see the difference between those two objects, well, let me look over to the Navigator, hmmm, almost 83,000% magnification? Now let me zoom back out to 100%, what? I can't even see where those two objects are, is that them or is that a speck of dust on my monitor?

 

I guess the question I have is why do you need to use the Expand Stroke for a two node line? When you use that operation on the line it is going to create more than two nodes, right? So, it isn't like you are reducing the number of nodes. Do you need to convert these small lines for use in another app?

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11 hours ago, Scungio said:

I guess the question I have

 

 

 

These inaccuracies also occur over 2 pt stroke widths and concern not only simple lines. Affinity Designer is advertised as the most precise vector graphic design software, but in other apps like Inkscape you don’t have these inaccuracies. One gets even different results in AD when repeated with copies/positions.

 

The question was: No further tweaks of “Expand Stroke” or will we get the same quality like in other apps in the next beta?

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I caught the issue! Oval must've been using the Pencil or Brush Tool while we were using the Pen Tool. If either of those tools are used first, then Oval's issue tends to happen when expanding strokes. But yet using the Pen Tool, that will not happen.

 

Edit: Strangely, I cannot reproduce this issue again. Today expanding the strokes work accordingly, but yesterday it deformed. I used the pencil to make a quick line, increased the stroke size, and expanded it.

The website is still a work in progress. The "Comics" and "Shop" sections are not yet ready. Feel free to connect with me and let me know what you like or what can be improved. You can contact me here, on my contact page, YouTube channel, or Twitter account. Thanks and have a great day!

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18 hours ago, Oval said:

 

The report was about a line (the first word in the post). A rectangle is not a line (of two nodes).

No further tweaks of “Expand Stroke” or will we get the same quality like in other apps in the next beta?

Oval,
Are you purposely being awkward and uncooperative? I simply asked you for the file shown in your screenshot so we can reproduce the issue and get it resolved. If you are unwilling to do this then we cannot help you. When reporting issues we need you to be as clear as possible to aid in the process of reproducing the fault.

You said the first word was 'line', which is actually part of your image and not your 'description'. You are always given a line (or Curve as the software refers to them) after an expand stroke, so it is not obvious what your starting point is. Looking at your image in no way can I see a line that consists of two nodes. If you had watched the video I attached, you would also have seen that this was converted to a line (Curve) after baking the corners on the tool, giving a curve similar to what your image shows.
 

So, do you have the file shown in your image so we can reproduce the issue you are having with Expand Stroke?

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I have used Illustrator and fortunately (or unfortunately) there are third party companies available that help address Illustrator's shortcomings. Quite often I would have to resort to Astute Graphics and VectorScribe, and their Smart Removal Brush tool to fix or do first aid on the poor result that Illustrator left me with after using their 'Expand Stroke'. So, it isn't like Adobe has this nut completely cracked either. And VectorScribe is not cheap, it currently sells for $93. I would usually buy their plugins when they had sales, but still, it always rankled me that I would have to pay monthly for Illustrator and then spend additional money for the Astute Graphics plugins.

 

Even in Illustrator I would have to edit and fine tune results after expanding an object, Designer is no different. For me though, I do find the Expand Stroke improved and I hope Serif continues to work on it.

 

 

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I cannot reproduce the issue as I did yesterday. Thankfully, I did take a screen recording. If you watch the video, you will see I ended up with a similar result to the image Oval posted. Although, it was not as deformed as shown in the image, but it does look as if something might be wrong.

 

20170919204333.mov

 

Today, if I test this, everything works fine.

The website is still a work in progress. The "Comics" and "Shop" sections are not yet ready. Feel free to connect with me and let me know what you like or what can be improved. You can contact me here, on my contact page, YouTube channel, or Twitter account. Thanks and have a great day!

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Everyone's mileage will vary so to speak, but for me the expand stroke is greatly improved in my use case. I wanted to export out some line work from Designer to bring into Modo, a 3D app. EPS works fine, comes into Modo with no problem. 

 

In Designer I love to use the pressure curve to get thick and thin strokes and but I have to use the Expand Stroke command to get the node count down, otherwise this happens:

 

7168.thumb.png.7f48966bc7fdc767d473c725219302b4.png

 

That is way too many nodes, obviously. So use the Expand Stroke command right? How good does it work in AD 1.5.5? Let us find out:

 

471.thumb.png.116e5763a78dbfffd39506b0f1b8849c.png

 

Okay, to go from 7,168 nodes to 471 is good but still way too many nodes for me. I wonder how the latest Beta, AD 1.6 b10 will fare with the Expand Stroke?

 

105.thumb.png.15c8e35a31d12a4f4e51f45031fafffd.png

 

Cool, all the way down to 105 with the latest Beta. I can use the Smooth Curve command in Designer and about 1 minute of editing to eliminate some points and get that down to 60 nodes. With the latest Beta the Expand Stroke command does do a better job of eliminating nodes in my use case anyway. This example I used could be a complicated logo and could have much more than the 7,000 nodes in this simple example. I see progress being made and I hope the screenshots prove that.

 

In terms of the examples that others like Oval are showing, yes, I can see that happening but for me it is only when working with smaller point sizes and when it does happen it is relatively easy to fix. Lining up the tangent handles, selecting a point or two and making sure they are set to smooth instead of corner, maybe adding a point, all of that I have been able to do in less than 15 seconds to make the shape look right. I don't mean to make light of people who are struggling with the Expand Stroke, but I have faced the same issues with Illustrator and had to fine tune objects after expanding.

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I just want to be clear with my previous post that my video was not indicating any dissatisfaction. I was trying to figure out the reason for Oval's issue because the expanded lines from the image looked too different from the stroke. Even though I could not accomplish the exact same result, I thought it may have been a lead. I can see as well that expanding strokes have been greatly improved.

The website is still a work in progress. The "Comics" and "Shop" sections are not yet ready. Feel free to connect with me and let me know what you like or what can be improved. You can contact me here, on my contact page, YouTube channel, or Twitter account. Thanks and have a great day!

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On 20. September 2017 at 9:09 AM, Sean P said:

Are you purposely being awkward and uncooperative?

This would be a very negative art to interpret factual texts, would be no answer of the question “no further tweaks of Expand Stroke?” and no meaningful way to motivate purchasers to help.

This bug exists for a long time and was reported many times but it was not corrected completely. This picture illustrates that even free apps don’t have that problem. So we are awkward to ask if we get further tweaks after improvements stopped here?

 

30418229au.jpg

On 20. September 2017 at 9:09 AM, Sean P said:

it is not obvious what your starting point is

It is because Affinity Designer only has one tool that is named line thingy and would make sense here.

 

On 20. September 2017 at 9:09 AM, Sean P said:

 I simply asked you for the file shown in your screenshot […] So, do you have the file

You will get a file. Please be patient until we can use AD again. Or just create a line we proposed six months ago.

 

Again: No further tweaks of “Expand Stroke” or will we get the same quality like in other apps in the next beta?

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Stroke expanding is fine now, but caps are still "polygonal".

A workaround consists in upscaling (I've found that 16x works awesome), expand and then resize back to wanted size.

 

The blue guy is a direct expand stroke, the red one is the same with the approach described above.

 

vector_caps.png

The white dog, making tools for artists, illustrators and doodlers

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12 hours ago, Oval said:

This would be a very negative art to interpret factual texts, would be no answer of the question “no further tweaks of Expand Stroke?” and no meaningful way to motivate purchasers to help.

This bug exists for a long time and was reported many times but it was not corrected completely. This picture illustrates that even free apps don’t have that problem. So we are awkward to ask if we get further tweaks after improvements stopped here?

 

30418229au.jpg

It is because Affinity Designer only has one tool that is named line thingy and would make sense here.

 

You will get a file. Please be patient until we can use AD again. Or just create a line we proposed six months ago.

 

Again: No further tweaks of “Expand Stroke” or will we get the same quality like in other apps in the next beta?

 

In this post .you were asked "Could you attach the document you are using that gives you this result please?".  We asked not because we cannot be bothered, but because your report matters and if we get your file working you are less likely to say that our fix (on our own files) has not fixed your problem.

 

3 Posts later and no file so we said "I simply asked you for the file shown in your screenshot". And yet you have now replied a total of 4 times and despite describing the problem over and over, which we are not denying exists for you, still you have not given us your file.  You have made much more work for yourself doing these convoluted posts so clearly it is not because you don't have the time, so it does seem that you are only providing the cooperation you want to rather that what is requested. If you do not want your posts to be ignored please cooperate with my QA staff.

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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54 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

 

In this post .you were asked "Could you attach the document you are using that gives you this result please?".  We asked not because we cannot be bothered, but because your report matters and if we get your file working you are less likely to say that our fix (on our own files) has not fixed your problem.

 

3 Posts later and no file so we said "I simply asked you for the file shown in your screenshot". And yet you have now replied a total of 4 times and despite describing the problem over and over, which we are not denying exists for you, still you have not given us your file.  You have made much more work for yourself doing these convoluted posts so clearly it is not because you don't have the time, so it does seem that you are only providing the cooperation you want to rather that what is requested. If you do not want your posts to be ignored please cooperate with my QA staff.

 

Thanks for the information. We are in vacation and again: You will get a file. Please be patient until we can use AD again. Or just create a line we proposed six months ago. If Serif is impatient it can use that measurement and gets those reported inaccuracies in less than five seconds.

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6 minutes ago, Oval said:

 

Thanks for the information. We are in vacation and again: You will get a file. Please be patient until we can use AD again. Or just create a line we proposed six months ago. If Serif is impatient it can use that measurement and gets those reported inaccuracies in less than five seconds.

 

Are you using the current beta for your tests of this incorrect behaviour as you keep referring back to old posts?

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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38 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

 

Are you using the current beta for your tests of this incorrect behaviour as you keep referring back to old posts?

@Patrick Connor i think i've managed to reproduce something similar to what @Oval is talking about.

I will attach my file created in AD Beta 10.

My curves are not so rounded as the Oval screenshot, but they are not straight lines.

You will have to really zoom in, let's say 20000% to see it perfectly.

 

For me that problem is not bothering at all. i'm just trying to help providing the file and maybe end with this unfriendly conversation from both sides.

 

In the screenshot is what i'm getting from AD App Store Version and AD Beta 10. The result is the same.screen.thumb.png.b1354bd9355025d5c3ecc08eb31fc647.png

line.afdesign

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19 hours ago, dcarvalho84 said:

@Patrick Connor i think i've managed to reproduce something similar to what @Oval is talking about.

I will attach my file created in AD Beta 10.

My curves are not so rounded as the Oval screenshot, but they are not straight lines.

You will have to really zoom in, let's say 20000% to see it perfectly.

 

For me that problem is not bothering at all. i'm just trying to help providing the file and maybe end with this unfriendly conversation from both sides.

 

Thanks for that.

We have had this issue logged for a while and all we are asking is for his file to confirm that what we have logged is the same as his problem. The post from all that time ago starts with a line less that 1.2 mm long being converted to curves. Clearly we need to do the best we can, but that is a mighty small line/curve.

 

More to the point our database had many many issues still open from 6 months ago and to keep discussing them as if they are the most important thing, seems way beyond the scope of this beta thread. How about we all stick to the topic of this beta build from now on. I propose we discuss the fixes, and any regressions introduced and new issues and not talk about what this build hasn't claimed to have fixed. That can be done outside of this thread and probably outside of beta forums.

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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19 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

Thanks for that.

We have had this issue logged for a while and all we are asking is for his file to confirm that what we have logged is the same as his problem. The post from all that time ago starts with a line less that 1.2 mm long being converted to curves. Clearly we need to do the best we can, but that is a mighty small line/curve.

 

More to the point our database had many many issues still open from 6 months ago and to keep discussing them as if they are the most important thing, seems way beyond the scope of this beta thread. How about we all stick to the topic of this beta build from now on. I propose we discuss the fixes, and any regressions introduced and new issues and not talk about what this build hasn't claimed to have fixed. That can be done outside of this thread and probably outside of beta forums.

@Patrick Connor As i've said i'm just trying to help and end with this confusion. Yes that line is 1.1mm zoomed to 20000%. I didn't even use the line mode with the pen tool on my everyday work.

I'm using AD since the end of November 2016 and i don't have words to thank all the team for such an amazing piece of software:) I can't live without you Affinity :D

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3 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

 

Are you using the current beta for your tests of this incorrect behaviour as you keep referring back to old posts?

 

Of Course. FYI: We just (unsuccessfully) asked if there will be improvements in the next beta, because there were no further ones in beta 10, so we just illustrated that in other apps like Inkscape there are no such misshapen results when using the same values. The problem also concerns bigger and complex curves and can change with the position/copy of the same curve. We referred back to old posts because we didn’t/don’t have the chance to use AD. The problem still exists in beta 10. Users that notice the inaccuracies late when works are produced can get into trouble. HTH

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On 9/19/2017 at 7:13 PM, Sean P said:

Hi Oval,

Could you attach the document you are using that gives you this result please? I just tried it myself on a rectangle with corners added using the Corner Tool, both baked and non-baked and didn't see the warping you are. See video.

ExpandStroke.mov

Hi Sean P,
Please try my file.
This problem annoying me too. I usually have to go to other app to expand stroke then copy to affinity.

I often use these 1px stokes for many projects.

test_expandStroke.afdesign

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14 hours ago, dcarvalho84 said:

@Patrick Connor i think i've managed to reproduce something similar to what @Oval is talking about.

I will attach my file created in AD Beta 10.

My curves are not so rounded as the Oval screenshot, but they are not straight lines.

You will have to really zoom in, let's say 20000% to see it perfectly.

 

For me that problem is not bothering at all. i'm just trying to help providing the file and maybe end with this unfriendly conversation from both sides.

 

In the screenshot is what i'm getting from AD App Store Version and AD Beta 10. The result is the same.screen.thumb.png.b1354bd9355025d5c3ecc08eb31fc647.png

line.afdesign

Try my file then you will see that the store version result is better but get more nodes.

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