Affinity Publisher

[A_B_C]

Why should your character style do this?

As I said, I believe it would make sense to improve the UI in this respect … the paragraph attributes are presented as if applicable, but they are not, for obvious reasons …

[R C-R]

Here's another example. I selected an entire Paragraph. I altered only the paragraph section as shown below. Er, the paragraph is still left aligned. The leading isn't applied. Nor the space before/after...etc., etc. I have created the style. Applied said style and reopened the style mod dialog so you can see what I changed.

For character styles, you will need to select the 'apply {style name} to paragraphs' option from the menu popup for the style to affect the entire paragraph (or paragraphs) selected. Perhaps not immediately obvious but there is some logic to it if you accept the premise that the style types merely indicate their predominant purpose -- since for character styles their predominant purpose is not for entire paragraphs, this is not their default behavior. 

 

But again, no one is forcing you or any other Affinity customer to include any paragraph attributes in a character style unless you have a need or desire to do that. It is quite understandable if you do not, but please consider that this is not necessarily true for the entire user base or that they would all agree with you that it is an undesirable or unneeded feature.

[MikeW]

Why should your character style do this?

 

Because it is presented to me in the UI. So why shouldn't it work?

[MikeW]

For character styles, you will need to select the 'apply {style name} to paragraphs' option from the menu popup for the style to affect the entire paragraph (or paragraphs) selected. Perhaps not immediately obvious but there is some logic to it if you accept the premise that the style types merely indicate their predominant purpose -- since for character styles their predominant purpose is not for entire paragraphs, this is not their default behavior. 

 

Nah, there's no real logic to any of it.

 

 

But again, no one is forcing you or any other Affinity customer to include any paragraph attributes in a character style unless you have a need or desire to do that. It is quite understandable if you do not, but please consider that this is not necessarily true for the entire user base or that they would all agree with you that it is an undesirable or unneeded feature.

 

 

But again, what paragraph attributes affect selected text from the Paragraph section of a character style?  changed them all and there was no apparent effect.

 

Yes, I could hit the apply to paragraphs. Which begs the question why not just use a paragraph style?

 

I wish one of you would post a sample file where settings from the paragraph section affects a character style, and explain how that is any difference than just creating or redefining a paragraph style.

 

I have yet to do any book, manual, catalog, tech-spec brochure, advertising or informational brochure, ad infinitum, where I had a single paragraph style overridden by a character style or even a single-use paragraph style. I have been doing layout work since 1989 and while I have created far-reaching work from one-page fliers for the local laundromat to Bibles for major publishers, the above stands as my experience.

 

I am interested in real-world examples. Not some stretch of the imagination just to prove a point that see, AD can do it. Build it and they will use it.

[R C-R]

This is an interesting discussion, by the way …  :)

It is indeed. The concept of "predominant purpose" is certainly at odds with (for want of a better phase & no disrespect intended toward anyone) old school thinking, but at least to me it is evocative of the kind of thinking that can sometimes result in what these days is fashionably called "disruptive technology." But as you say, it remains to be seen if this is anything even remotely like that, or just something most people will ignore.

[R C-R]

Nah, there's no real logic to any of it.

To you there is not. To me there is. Perhaps it is best to leave it at that & move on to other topics.

[Mithferion]

Woah, this conversation has gone a long way.

 

Either option that you are discussing is fine by me; I'm just wondering if Moderators are willing to make a poll to see who wants which option. That may show what are people's needs.

 

¡Saludos!

[MikeW]

To you there is not. To me there is. Perhaps it is best to leave it at that & move on to other topics.

Please just upload a file to demonstrate how it works. A picture is worth a thousand words and all that.

 

I do really want to see an example. I do want APub to be a viable option, to be all it can be. I do want to learn just how this capability will put bread on my table.

[Petar Petrenko]

It is better to give chance to "the new kids on the block". They know what is better for us.

[Oval]

Kindergarten

[R C-R]

It is better to give chance to "the new kids on the block". They know what is better for us.

Nobody knows what is best for everyone, whether an old hand with 20+ years of experience or someone just starting out.

 

We do not all march to the beat of the same drum. It is disturbing that anyone might think we should.

[Dave Harris]

So I decided to create a character style that changes the TNR font to Arial as per the heading. The create a new style came up not with the point size of the body text--12 pt--like every other layout or design application. Instead it shows 5 pt. I knew I didn't want it to be 5 point but accepted that to see what would happen (well, I knew what was going to happen). And yep, it is 12 point like the body paragraph definition and just swaps out the font.

This is a Windows bug that's not present on Mac. It's showing the first number in the list instead of [No change], but it is actually [No change]. You can tell by looking at the summary at the bottom; if this style were actually changing the pointsize it would be shown there. While checking this I noticed a few other Windows bugs, such as not being able to remove some fields after they had been given values without resetting the entire font. It seems Windows users have been getting a different experience to Mac users because of these bugs.

 

I can't see here any extra flexibility. BTW there is also a new term unseen up to now in styles terminology -- Group styles. Can you explain this? I've read the Help file but it wasn't of any help at all.

A group style is one that exists only for other styles to be based on it. For example, in the default stylesheet there is one called "Base". It is not included in the style lists in the text context toolbar, or the Character or Paragraph panels, and if you click on it in the Text Styles panel nothing happens. But it does carry most of default formatting for the stylesheet.

 

I am going to assume that I am ignorant of how to use those paragraph definitions inside a character style. Perhaps they simply do not have any effect in a character style--but then that begs the question of why show them to the user at all.

There is a slot for a style on each paragraph and on each character. You can put any kind of style into either slot. Paragraph formatting is only used from the style in the paragraph slot. You can put a paragraph style into the character slot by right-clicking on it and using Apply "Style" to Characters. I gave examples of how this might be useful earlier. You can make this easier by ticking the Show in both panels checkbox, and then using it from the appropriate control in the text context toolbar or the Character panel

 

You can put a character style into paragraph slot by right-clicking on it and using Apply "Style" to Paragraphs. I agree this is less useful. This conversation has persuaded me to remove paragraph formatting options from character styles. Hopefully doing this, and fixing the Windows bugs, will address some of the concerns in this thread. Thanks everyone for the feedback.

[Oval]

Because it is presented to me in the UI. So why shouldn't it work?

 

Simply with the same logic defined line spacing of a style is ignored because of a baseline grid.

[MikeW]

Simply with the same logic defined line spacing of a style is ignored because of a baseline grid.

 

Rather moot now, isn't it Oval?

 

Did you read Dave's last paragraph above your latest post?

[Oval]

Because it is presented to me in the UI. So why shouldn't it work?

Rather moot now, isn't it Oval?

 

No, your question and logic still exist.

[Petar Petrenko]

[...] A group style is one that exists only for other styles to be based on it. For example, in the default stylesheet there is one called "Base". It is not included in the style lists in the text context toolbar, or the Character or Paragraph panels, and if you click on it in the Text Styles panel nothing happens. But it does carry most of default formatting for the stylesheet.

[...]

 

As I can understand, it has the same functionality as "Based on" which already exist in "Text styles".

[MikeW]

No, your question and logic still exist.

 

Paragraph overrides via local character formatting isn't like baseline grids. As well, in layout applications a baseline grid can be overridden.

 

The whole point of overrides is? And in the case I cited above, overrides mean nothing.

 

Feel free to go and pick a fight with someone else over something else. Ya ain't gonna win this one.

[Dave Harris]

As I can understand, it has the same functionality as "Based on" which already exist in "Text styles".

 

Basing one style on another style does not cause either to be removed from the style controls in the context toolbar. Making the type be Group does. The idea is that some types exist purely to help organise other styles, and don't get used directly.

[Oval]

The whole point of overrides is? And in the case I cited above, overrides mean nothing.

 

Feel free to go and pick a fight with someone else over something else.

 

We did not use your term. If there would be an override button your logic would make sense. But parts are simply ignored. Like the stored alignment in a character style. With the words of your fighting language: A cat try to beat a tank but it cannot beat a tank.

[MikeW]

A character style by nature is an override to a paragraph style. Nothing, no application, has an override button.

 

The paragraph settings made no sense in a character style. They are being removed. Which was my main point.

[Petar Petrenko]

Basing one style on another style does not cause either to be removed from the style controls in the context toolbar. Making the type be Group does. The idea is that some types exist purely to help organise other styles, and don't get used directly.

 

Sorry, but I did not understand your logic. I'm just a simple oldfashioned guy and want to remain the same. Please, don't waste your time in additional explanations. :)

[The Bearded Bird]

Is there anyway I can become a beta-tester ? My work have no issues with paying for adobe CC but I am starting to prefer the other affinity apps compared to adobe. So I would like to add the newest member to the family asap :D

PEACE!

[A_B_C]

I think everybody would like to be a beta tester “asap” … :D  ;)

[anon1]

I think everybody would like to be a beta tester “asap” … :D  ;)

I'd rather have the finished app

 

whatever finished means lol

[R C-R]

whatever finished means lol

 

"Finished" means the company is no longer in business so there will be no more new features, no more updates or upgrades, no bug fixes, & no more customer support.

 

It also means it will get better & better in our memories the longer it has been since we used it.  :lol: