Greyscale and no FX view mode options added

[Ash]

Apps: Designer and Publisher
Platforms: All

In Affinity Designer and Affinity Publisher you can now choose to toggle your view to hide all layer effects or switch to greyscale. Being able to hide layer effects in this way is particularly important for those creating very complex designers with 1000s of layers and effects - having a view mode where effects can be turned off greatly improves performance as you work.

Toggling to greyscale mode can also be useful to evaluate contrast and dynamic range more easily.

On desktop you will find these new options in the View Mode options, and on iPad you can toggle them using the buttons next to the View Mode options in the navigator as shown below.

 

Additionally on desktop we have created new buttons you can optionally add to your toolbar to make it more convenient for those who want to toggle between these views regularly. You can find these by right clicking on top toolbar and selecting "Customise Toolbar" and drag either of them on where you see fit.

 

[Frozen Death Knight]

Really good features. I do hope however that these will be implemented into Publisher/Photo as well. As a painter I want to be able to preview my art in greyscale/without FX to better understand my colour values and layers. Not relying on an adjustment layer for greyscale especially would be great.

[Ash]

Tricky one that. To be honest we wouldn't expect a huge performance penalty for placed docs with lots of effects. They may take a little longer to render (when you zoom in and out for example), but not get too much in the way of your editing speed when working on the design which includes it. 

This is because with placed / embedded files we cache the result of it (basically a flattened version of it) at the resolution you are viewing - we are not always trying to draw all the layers in the embedded file dynamically.

e.g. if you open the "Vintage Car" sample in Designer - the speed difference while moving layers around, drawing additional shapes, etc. when you have "Draw Effects" turned off is huge. However, if you save that file and then place it in a fresh document then the speed of drawing additional shapes, etc. in that fresh document is fast.

Certainly if you have example files which have lots of placed documents within them where performance is an issue we could take a look at them - but likely any optimisations possible for that would be a different solution.  

[habahu]

Good improvement. This is a common function. It will be more convenient if there are corresponding icons in the Advanced View Mode.

[Ash]

19 hours ago, Red Sands said:

So I'm thinking, when you get to the point/zoom level where they are no longer just flattened, but rendered again (at least that's what it looks like when you zoom in, FX are not shown) can you disable FX also for embedded objects? Is this possible?

First off love the sound of the work you are creating and the methods you are using are certainly interesting. What you are saying isn't out the question, it's just quite a fundamental change to how we deal with embedded objects - and there's risk if we start going down that road we could introduce a lot of unintended consequences. With that in mind we can't consider this for 2.2 timeframe. The fact still exists too that we are not entirely sure that cascading the 'no effects' setting through embedded documents will necessarily have a substantial performance advantage.

If you are comfortable you can PM me a doc you think demonstrates the problem in confidence.

[Ash]

1 hour ago, Red Sands said:

I don't quite understand the problem with applying no-fx to the embedded documents, is it because it will be considered a change to the embedded document that will be saved with it?

 

No, not that - this is simply a view time thing (you turning effects off does not change the file - you are just choosing to view it without effects). same as outline mode - you view the work in outlines but the document is the same. And outline mode is a good example - we don't currently expose all the outlines contained within any embedded documents when you choose that mode (you just get a square around the the border of the file), and in that example there would be a very large performance penalty if we tried to. Also have to consider within the structure we offer you could have embedded docs within embedded docs n deep.

Nothing is impossible of course, but as I say if performance is the aim we don't think allowing view mode settings to cascade to embedded children will help / could make things worse. If you're just wanting to view the whole document without effects because you want to view it that way even if performance is worse that is a different consideration - as it would be if you wanted outline view to also take that approach.

[fde101]

15 hours ago, Ash said:

Nothing is impossible of course, but as I say if performance is the aim we don't think allowing view mode settings to cascade to embedded children will help / could make things worse.

Only once per combination of settings.  You could simply cache versions with each variant of those settings the first time the settings are encountered, then switch to the appropriate cached version when the settings are changed again.

[StuartRc]

2 hours ago, Red Sands said:

@StuartRc

I think I remember you making some complicated drawings and splitting them into multiple files for performance reasons?

I did originally. Yes!
The first couple of vector drawings I worked on relied heavily on embedded files to get the speed up. These drawings are very complex. I was impressed how affinity handled them with 1000's of vector elements. I believe I commented on this in the original thread. Oddly I converted 2 versions of 'Poison' yesterday (didn't want to use the original file.. bit risky!) to test the new greyscale feature and FX removal. I meant to do a bit more testing but was a bit distracted!😀 I could not find any initial issues..But i Have not been through the new 2.2 features in more detail yet!

Poison is very complex with I believe all the mushrooms and background layers embedded
Rock Monster World used the same technique a sort of multi-layer embedding

'Untamed' + 'A Stand of Trees' Do not use this method. They are single files with even more vector elements and I can work with them without any issues which is great!

and lastly:

'Bindweed' is yet another method mixing raster | Vector elements on a relatively large artboard. (Raster Comic outlines + Vector colouring) I also tried the Greyscale View + FX with it yesterday again with no issues that I could see.
 

But Affinity has seen significant speed improvements up to its current development. I find it no longer necessary!
I used to create a master file of same resolution and size to embed child elements in separate layers. handy for shading and FX tweaks.. It is rare that I use FX in my drawings as I prefer to shade by hand. The newish and very welcome 'Style Picker Tool' + Knife + Vector Flood Fill Tools have also significantly changed how I create the vector objects. This was really a result of the number of vectors and nodes where the > the number the slower the app would get...but we are talking about a lot! possibly 10's of 1000's. I just used is a a technique for controlling the issue...and was 2017-18 I think!

I could not see any issues tagging the top artboard with View>Greyscale or removing any FX effects in the original file. It would be interesting to test it with Data Management and linked | Data image files.

I was surprised that the options were not added as buttons in the context bar.. but it's early days with this beta!

 

 

[Sean P]

1 hour ago, StuartRc said:

But Affinity has seen significant speed improvements up to its current development. I find it no longer necessary!
I used to create a master file of same resolution and size to embed child elements in separate layers. handy for shading and FX tweaks.. It is rare that I use FX in my drawings as I prefer to shade by hand. The newish and very welcome 'Style Picker Tool' + Knife + Vector Flood Fill Tools have also significantly changed how I create the vector objects. This was really a result of the number of vectors and nodes where the > the number the slower the app would get...but we are talking about a lot! possibly 10's of 1000's. I just used is a a technique for controlling the issue...and was 2017-18 I think!

I could not see any issues tagging the top artboard with View>Greyscale or removing any FX effects in the original file. It would be interesting to test it with Data Management and linked | Data image files.

I was surprised that the options were not added as buttons in the context bar.. but it's early days with this beta!

Hi StuartRc,

Those pieces of work all look ace, so it is pleasing to hear the positive feedback both on the feature itself and also on the general speed improvements.

[StuartRc]

9 minutes ago, Sean P said:

Hi StuartRc,

Those pieces of work all look ace, so it is pleasing to hear the positive feedback both on the feature itself and also on the general speed improvements.

Oh!...thanks!....  Much appreciated!

The praise really should go to the Affinity Team and established Beta Testers for developing and supporting it's rapid evolution in the first place... I would not be able to produce these drawings without it...

Frankly the overall the direction and development of these apps is absolutely fantastic!...I don't have any major issues with them and I am pretty confident that this Beta will go the same way... I keep having to change my work flow. Using the pen tool inside vector objects to draw as flat colours and styling using the Style picker tool is really efficient and much faster. Many thanks for that I am using it all the time!😀

..yeah the artwork is pretty complex..😀which is great for testing.. speed and lagging is much less of an issue. 

NB I just playing around with the raster brushes. There are a couple of new features exposed that I did not see listed...Rename Brush + save as!)..Just thought I would let you know!

[StuartRc]

3 hours ago, Red Sands said:

Wow, I don't regret dragging you into the conversation @StuartRc. Thank you for the detailed and helpful reply. That's good to hear.

A little reading material and knowledge from of an old familiar face, @Ash. 🙂

My scenario is not just performance, but rather that this is simply how I currently assemble documents from sub-components. But as I wrote, my method is not a prerequisite for my work, nor for yours Stuart. 

So I hope Serif will get it to work with embedded documents down the road, but I'm very, very, very happy with the current implementation. Trying a commonly built but complex document on an older machine today really demonstrated a difference.

Yes, also here, but as you can see, I have requested it.

And absolutely crucial in the iPad version, where the current heavy process is too slow and difficult when, for example, you want to switch to wireframe for a moment only to select some difficult objects. You don't always change the view type to use it for a longer period of time so easy access to do so would really help.

I tend to assemble objects for a final drawing these days!...each element can get a bit complicated. The process works well! and I can control them with layers and groups. I could have embedded the files but it sort of became less necessary. Coupled with the fact that my initial drawing can be a bit weird! I like the extended with mode. with greyscale it can show instantly how the image is balanced out.

 

[DianeF]

Is there a way to view gray scale in Affinity Photo 2.2? Or, do you have to switch to Designer? In your email, you indicated this feature was for all platforms/

Thanks

[Return]

13 minutes ago, DianeF said:

you indicated this feature was for all platforms

All platforms means in this case iPad/Mac/Windows ,it's only in designer and designerpersona in publisher.

[DianeF]

OK, thanks for the clarification.

I tried it in Designer and it's a great feature for artists who want to view their work in grayscale.

[walt.farrell]

23 minutes ago, Red Sands said:

But I'm used to using it as a photographer. I tried a round trip to Photo as a workaround but that was a painfully slow method.

Perhaps work in Publisher, which gives you very quick access to many Photo functions via StudioLink?

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, Red Sands said:

and no access to the pixel persona and export persona in Designer.

True, but:

• If you have Photo, you don't need the Pixel Persona from Designer.
• While working on your design, you probably don't need the Export Persona very often. That usually (at least for me) comes in more toward the end of the work.

[walt.farrell]

39 minutes ago, Red Sands said:

And on iPad… no go.

On the iPad, you can't easily transfer from one app to the other. But you can use Publisher and StudioLink, so it's an even nicer workflow there, until you need the Export Persona in the end.

[Dazmondo77]

2 hours ago, Red Sands said:

simple, efficient workflow, thank you

Exactly = studiolink - total game changer - I only use Photo for Raws and PS filters, and have only used designer professionally, over the past two years, on two exhibition display jobs, that where a bit of a nightmare in designer, and would be an absolute breeze in Pub if we had multipage spreads

[StuartRc]

22 hours ago, Red Sands said:

Interesting. My methods involves more and more intense reuse of elements, I could also live with copy-pasting the objects I reuse from my own library. But generally I prefer slicing up a design in chuncks I can work and focus on them separately. When I do this layer by layer, each layer can be used as (starting point for) a new poster.

One of the items I reuse quite a lot these years is windows and window frames. Old windows with cracks, patination and with small ornaments here and there. It takes forever to handtrace the originals and make them look semi-real and I have trashed a few techniques in favor of simpler and more realistic ones after several months. Currently I work on more than four posters of old buildings I could start working on reusing the windows they all have in common, and focus on they buildings and whats unique about them. The advantage is that I can use almost completed window images from my library, linked, from the very beginning and focus on the rest. When and if I then improve the windows SOURCE files, all posters benefit. I save so much time and get off to a fast start when I work in a structured way like this.

That is why it also hurts that I cannot use warp groups on linked files. Reusing the images with perspective added to them would be a killer feature for me.

So I'm going to have to find a way to show/hide effects and documents with embedded/linked files. One way or another.

I make a lot of use of object libraries and re-usable elements. I thought this chat was getting a bit off topic about Greyscale and FX so I sort of responded a with an outline of current processes in the Bindweed thread..

[fde101]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:28 AM, walt.farrell said:

until you need the Export Persona in the end.

Where this is unlikely to be sufficient is in certain categories of workflows in which continuous export is being used to update resources used externally during the design process.  For example, if using either Photo or Designer to work on images that are resources in a game engine, the continuous export feature could be used to export selected regions of the document constantly as they are edited.  These exported images could then be picked up by the game development software when they change on disk, allowing for near-real-time preview in context in the external software while the editing is being done in the Affinity app.

This is something that cannot currently be supported in Publisher due to lack of that persona... but at the same time, something that Publisher and StudioLink are unlikely to be very helpful with.  I would think that working directly within Photo or Designer would probably be the better choice for those workflows anyway.

[aji]

Scaling in and out in grayscale mode will result in color restoration and faster scaling  （Press Ctrl+middle mouse button to zoom）

 

 

[Hangman]

A very minor 'issue'...

Switching Draw Effects on and off results in screen flashing in Split View regardless of whether Hardware Acceleration is on or off and Metal or Open GL is selected... Switching Greyscale on and off isn't affected...

 

[Sean P]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:35 AM, Hangman said:

A very minor 'issue'...

Switching Draw Effects on and off results in screen flashing in Split View regardless of whether Hardware Acceleration is on or off and Metal or Open GL is selected... Switching Greyscale on and off isn't affected...

 

 

Thanks for that - I don't think its just Draw Effects. Switching between Pixel and Vector is doing the same! I'll get it logged still

[Hangman]

Hi @Sean P,

Perfect as always and many thanks for logging...

[Ash]

Hi all - as requested we have now added buttons for the new Greyscale and No FX view modes which are available to optionally add to your toolbar in the latest beta build.

In addition we have added all view modes previously only available in Designer (including these new ones) to now be available in Affinity Publisher. 

I realise there was a request to also add the new view modes to Affinity Photo. We want to give that a bit more thought for various reasons, and it won't be something we add in this 2.2 cycle.