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In an ideal world it would be great having a centralised file viewer that could save all xmp files holding changes made to RAW files from various products I.e. Affinity, DXOlab, NX Studio. Well this is what I would like but the best tools I can use for viewing are Adobe Bridge or XNVIEW MP. The latter is what I use now as it's fast and free for personal use. Plus it will display affinity files. Without paying a fortune for photo viewer XNVIEW MP is by far the best. All others including paid software will not view affinity files and are extremely slow unless you want to edit in them. Adobe bridge you can download and install as long as you register an account. What I don't like is that Adobe Creative Cloud is installed and bridge is managed and maintained through this service. Bridge requires you to be logged into your account to use the app which I don't like as it means I cannot use Bridge offline. In most cases I view my library in xnview mp and then edit via external editor through xnview depending on which raw editor I need. Dxolabs does not support some of my cheaper nikon lenses so I will use nikon nx studio. These two are best raw editors for NEF files, well for me that is. Affinity is also good but prefer dxolab and nx studio as my first but with Affinity 2.0 the non destructive raw editing is slowly moving up. A bit long but I hope my use of these apps will help you choose the right tools for your work flow.

If you use Apple Photos as your DAM since Affinity has now announced on Twitter replies they are no longer currently working on their own DAM as they had been according to their previous tweets and notes on their website, want to know if non destructive raw edits are preserved. So in Apple Photos when I choose to edit a raw Photo in Affinity and save the changes back to Apple Photos, does it work like Lightroom etc, where is the original raw is still there, and I can reedit later? Meaning the changes are made to the raw and non destructive? This applies to Desktop and iPad. Asked on Twitter, but was told to ask here so assuming the answer is not yes, but rather either will be in a future update, or works partially but not fully. Can someone clarify? Thank you!

Well, destructive has several possible meanings. It is technically correct that Photo will not change raw files. But you can use develop persona on e..g. Tiffs and save them - with destructive effect to the affected pixel layer. In my perspective this is destructive in comparison to adjustment layers as the settings applied in develop persons will destructively change the rgb pixel layer. If you go insane on the exposure and apply, you cannot re-enter develop persona and tweak exposure to re-gain out-blown highlights. If you use an exposure adjustment in photo persona instead, it would be non-destructive as you could re-adjust the sliders any time later and re-gain out-blown highlights. So please keep these different concepts of “destructive” in mind: 1. Photo cannot save files as RAW Format, so will never do any harm to them (non-destructive by being forced to save a copy in different format) 2. Develop Persona (and Tone Map, Liquify etc) are destructive to the pixel layer. You cannot re-adjust the settings you have chosen before hitting apply. (destructive). Re-opening Develop and applying inverse adjustment is possible, but could lead to loss of details 3. adjustment and filter layers and some other functions are truly non-destructive. 4 Applying adjustment or filters directly is destructive to pixel layers using undo / history does not count for this discussion

I see and I mentioned them - new live and compound masks and non-destructive RAW development (but I don't do that ) And some questionable UI improvements - some of which I like and I wrote about that in other topics too - but also some important issues. ...OK, I admit, perhaps these things are nice as well: 👍 Quick layer colour tagging via right-click on Visibility button Copy layer effects (FX) from one layer to another Merge selected layers via right-click Layer states to experiment with design options and versions Non-destructive mesh warp filter Still, as an 50€ upgrade... Don't get me wrong - many things are nice and AP is really great comparing it to the poor and 20 years old standard toll missing AD and for the new customers special offer is very favorable, but for the current ones... stil I'm not convinced.

There is some crosstalk in the discussion here about profiles. Firstly, the profile referred to during raw conversion is a profile that is meant to translate raw camera color into a specific color rendition - this profile is typically made by shooting a color reference target and then running that DNG file through software to output a DCP (Lightroom, ACR or similar software) or ICC (Capture One, etc.) file for use during raw conversion. AP does not permit the user to specify such a profile for raw conversion at this time - it uses the internal LibRaw profile to generate the raw file as far as I know (Mac users can also switch to the Apple raw engine). In AP's Develop persona there is a dropdown list at the bottom of the Basic palette called "Profiles." This dropdown list permits the user to select the ICC profile for the color space into which the raw file will be converted as an RGB image leaving the Develop persona. This is similar to the selection of the color space in the Lightroom/ACR output dialog or any other raw converter's output controls. This does not affect the look of the raw conversion, it specifies the color space into which the raw file is converted and it tags the output file with that color space so a color-aware application can display the RGB numbers in the file correctly, according to that color space. If you do not specify a profile here, AP will convert the raw file into AP's working color space, as specified in the Preferences. If you have custom log or cine camera profiles that are supposed to be used at raw conversion time, you will not be able to use them in AP because AP's raw conversion interface does not support custom/user-specified camera profiles. Once the file has been converted into an RGB file and opened in the Photo persona, it exists in the specified color space (from the selection of the Profile in the Develop persona) or in the default working color space (if no Profile was specified in the Develop persona). Here you can CONVERT to a different color space via an ICC profile, or ASSIGN a new ICC profile to the existing image data. When you CONVERT, the RGB numbers in the current color space get changed to preserve the original appearance of the image in the new color space; when you ASSIGN, the original RGB numbers are preserved and the colors change according to their new interpretation in the new, assigned color space. In terms of printing, usually one edits in a working color space that contains a large enough gamut to comfortably work with the gamut of the output device. At print time, the print driver will do the conversion into the printer's ICC profile color space according to your instructions - the printer interface also permits the user to select the rendering intent of the conversion so that the printer driver knows how to handle out of gamut colors. You do not need to assign a printer profile to the image in AP. You can, however, use the printer ICC profile to soft-proof the image in AP prior to printing. This is performed with the Soft Proof adjustment layer, a non-destructive operation that lets you visualize the printed output through AP's simulating its appearance for the selected profile (usually a printer+paper combination). Of course, soft-proofing is a simulation of a reflective medium (ink on paper) on a transmissive device (your display), but once you print enough, you can usually anticipate how the print will appear on paper compared to the soft proof. To recap: convert your raw image into a color space that is large enough for your editing workflow (let's say ProPhoto RGB). Do your edits. CONVERT the image, if necessary, into the output color space (let's say sRGB for web display) or print the image and let the print driver do the conversion using the printer+paper ICC profile that you specify. One workaround for color rendition following raw conversion is to use a LUT that you create that takes the default raw conversion output from AP (using AP's camera profile) and alters it like a custom profile would. You need software that will permit you to make such a LUT from a color target, for example (3D LUT Creator) - then you can convert your raw image into your working color space with AP's default rendering and apply the custom LUT to get the color rendition you really want after the default raw conversion. Another workaround, especially for using LUTs etc. that require a log input file, is to convert your raw file into a 32bit linear file from the Develop persona. Then you can use OCIO transforms to take the linear output (a raw file is just linear data) and transform it into the correct log format for your cine looks. Have fun! Kirk

I have been using Apple photos in iCloud for years, people have no idea how powerful it is, I have over 56'000 images, many of the RAW and I can access them on my Macbook, my Mac Mini, my iPad and on my iPhone. Incredible features :- 1. Search is fab, search for trees lighthouses cats dogs etc no problem 2. Facial recognition, once you have told it who a person is it collects all images of that person making managing family photos a breeze. 3. The editor is pretty good AND is non-destructive. So I can edit my RAW and a JPG is displayed but at any time I can revert the image back to the original RAW and start again. 3a. Edits can be copied and pasted in bulk to a whole stack of images directly 4. Built in duplicate image finder 5. Images can be placed in as many albums as you like but only a single image is stored. 6. If you have location information on your images you get a world map showing where all your images were taken, you can zoom in on map and all the photo you took in that location are at your fingertips 7. You can view your images in so many ways, by date, by type panoramas, raw etc 8. Single long press on image with people or objects in and it will lift the main subjects off and you can save to another image, similar to making a selection in affinity then duplicating the selection, but automatically. See cool demo below, single finger press. 9. In iCloud with optimise storage it saves so much space that even my ancient 256GB Macbook and 64GB iPhone X can see all 56'000 images without running into space problems. 10. Have a photo of a plant, animal etc you will get a small * attached to the information button which will tell you what it thinks the plant is. 11. You can adjust the metadata directly to add location, correct date on scanned images etc 12. Built in OCR, if your image has text in it you can copy and paste somewhere else 13. Can also handle video files and can even edit those as well including trimming starts and finishes etc 14. To pickup the STAR rating issues, because are albums are all virtual collections, I have virtual albums named *, **,***,****,***** and simply add images to those folders. 15. You can right click any image and select Edit in Affinity Photo, do all your edits, then select Document -> Flatten in Affinity then File -> Save directly back into Apple Photos. At any time you can right click an edited image by any editor and select Revert to Original to undo all edits. IMG_3236.MOV

Having been using Affinity Photo for nearly a year now I wonder why the same complaint is prevalent. There are so many comments of 'AP is great but' the but referring to the fact that RAW development is destructive. At first it didn't bother me but now I find there are more and more times I would like to go back and tweak my initial raw development but I have to return to the RAW file and start from scratch. I used to hate PS's sidecar file but now realise it's benefit. How hard would it be to implement non-destructive RAW adjustment? This would make it easy to copy the RAW adjustments from one edit and paste in to many files speeding up workflow. From comments I have seen there are many people who will not use AP purely because of this 'issue'. I am looking at another program that has a far better 'RAW' development tool but sadly lacks on the photo editing side as, among other things, it does not support layers. IMHO AP comes second to PS but only because RAW development is destructive, fix that and AP would be number 1.

Unlike many raw converters, AP has no facility for recording the settings you dial in during raw conversion (like a sidecar file, database, or embedded DNG metadata). If you do a raw conversion into the Photo persona and simply close the resulting file, when you open the raw file again, you start over. Similarly, AP has no analog to a Smart Object in PS. So, once you perform your raw conversion into an RGB file, you cannot reopen it into the Develop persona as the original raw file; you can, however, open the converted RGB file in the Develop persona and edit it there, if the tools there are better for whatever it is you are trying to accomplish. This is analogous to editing an RGB file in PS using the Camera Raw filter. Because almost everything you might want to do to an RGB file in AP is non-destructive (adjustment layers, live filter layers) you can send a TIFF from DxO to AP and do non-destructive edits to it. If you realize that you need to make changes to the original raw file in DxO, your changes in DxO are preserved by DxO, so it is just a matter of reopening the raw file in DxO, editing there and then exporting the new TIFF to AP. Then swap that new TIFF into the file with all of your edits in layers above the original TIFF image. If they are all non-destructive edits, they will all just modify the new edit and you can adjust them for the new edit image. kirk

Improvements toward being more non-destructive are fine, to a point. The entire application will never be a fully non-destructive tool. People looking for that don't really understand what Photo is, but there are certainly a number of ways to make it more non-destructive than it currently is, and I have no objection to that whatsoever, as long as they don't bastardize the application into something which it was not really meant to be. I think that the Develop persona should be modified to work on image layers rather than pixel layers, and to store its settings as part of the image layer. As long as users leave it as an image layer, they could always switch back to the Develop persona to adjust those settings. Live filters, adjustment layers, etc. could be added over top of that non-destructively, and the crop tool is already non-destructive. When someone needs to perform destructive edits, or tries to merge those layers down to the "background" layer, it would need to be converted to a pixel layer (as it is now), and the edits would become destructive. Masks can also work on image layers without converting them to pixel layers, and compositing between layers is also non-destructive within the layers panel, so there is already quite a bit that can be done non-destructively from an engine perspective, it is mostly the fact that RAW development happens on pixel rather than image layers that seems to be the bottleneck here. Photoshop has "Photo" in its name as well and that is hardly non-destructive. It is trying to turn Affinity Photo into an organizational tool by bringing in multiple images in a browser sort of fashion or trying to make these non-destructive edits happen without first bringing the image into a native Affinity Photo document format that are out of place and don't really fit with the overall design and purpose of the application. Correct. These are technically distinct, but what I think most (not all) of the people requesting this are looking for is something to replace Aperture/Lightroom-type functionality. I would prefer to classify them as photography workflow applications but in essence they combine DAM-like functionality with RAW development. Getting RAW development to happen on image layers would actually be a step toward this also, as the underlying engine can already handle image layers being external to the Affinity document file (this can be done with Publisher). If the future workflow application sets up the images this way in the Affinity document file, it would allow that document file to essentially act somewhat like the sidecar files used by many of competing products.

Unfortunately this is not possible. Programs like DXO, LR, Capture1 have this available. AP-2 did add Non-destructive RAW editing. So long as in the Develop Persona, the Output is set to Embedded or Linked, you can return to the Develop Persona, and all the adjustments made will be there for further tweaking if necessary. Now what I did learn, once you Develop your RAW file, in the Photo Persona you're given the Option to Replace Image. You can replace it with another RAW image and all the settings/adjustments will be applied to the replacement. IMHO, that could be a (slow) way of achieving what you're looking to do. For now though, AP is not to where the other DAM, RAW developing programs are.

Non-destructive RAW edits are available from version 2.0.0 onwards https://affinity.help/photo2/English.lproj/pages/Raw/raw.html

Via the DNG.... I explained that from the very beginning, but perhaps as it was in response to "Old Bruce" and a continuation of another thread (that you were a part of ) this has been misunderstood. To reiterate: the FACT that a DNG created from tiff or jpeg files can be non-destructively edited in the develop persona provides evidence that this is technically possible. It is not an ideal workflow nor am I recommending it or asking for it as a feature request. The generalization of the feature request is simply to support - in some way - the non-destructive editing of jpeg, tiff, etc. in the same manner as RAW files currently can be edited in the develop module. Serif can call it something else if they want, but given that they already support jpeg, etc. (destructively) in the RAW develop module they may prefer to keep naming consistent. So as paulie.reklama 's idea - its just same thing with different name.

Thank you for the surprisingly quick release of Photo Beta for Windows! I have a few questions / comments on RAW editing as a heavy user of Photoshop and its upstream ACR workspace. While I like that Serif actually chose a common interface for traditional photo-retouching / compositing as well as RAW developing there's also features I miss right away. Photoshop's RAW development allows for global editing of image properties – pretty much in the way the Develop Persona works. That way one can raise the exposure or increase contrast – changes do apply to the whole image. Apart from that one may use any combination of tools for non-destructive brush based operations, as well as graduated filters. The impact of any contributing tool may get changed at any point in time. Even after bringing the edited RAW image into the main PS application as a smart object and having worked for hours in a composition, one can still go back and each and any global, operation as well as brush based RAW operations are still Life. One at that point can even delete the original RAW file, as it has completely gotten embedded into the .psd. If so desired, one could strip out any changes and export to .dng again. The Affinity RAW editor seems not to have any of the tools I just described. Also, RAW development in Affinity seems to be understood as the first step in a linear stream of editing operations. One may of course re-enter the Develop workspace, but all tools have forgotten the settings one had dialed in initially. I wonder what your plans are in terms of RAW editing: Do you plan to keep Develop-setting Live? Is non-destructive brush / gradient-based editing with any combination of tools on the roadmap? I also wonder what happens if one uses a couple of RAW based images on a large Poster. In Photoshop one may use these images at their full size or as a thumbnail. But one can scale that thumbnail up again or paste it into a new file and raise the output size here. As the RAW information is encapsulated in the Smart Object one never loses resolution. Obviously one shouldn't go larger that the original RAW but for all smaller output sizes one can practically forget about resolution issues. Is there a similar solution inside Affinity Photo?

There really is no such thing as a jpeg object in an Affinity document. All raster objects are rendered either as pixel or image layers & only converted ('flattened') to raster formats during export to JPG, PNG or similar bitmap formats. So if you use the Develop persona on a raster layer, it is destructive (other than through using the History panel to undo the edits, using snapshots, etc.). This is why it is a good idea to duplicate a raster layer before editing it in the Develop persona. What AP V2 does have that V1 did not is non-destructive development of RAW files.

Very few functions are working better in Develop Persona. All the rest can be done in photo Persona, with the big advantage of non-destructive workflow. Since V2 you can re-edit RAW, with some constraints (must use Serif RAW). basic exposure, highlights, shadow adjustment to get everything into 0 to 1 range (in histogram) White balance works different in both Personas chromatic aberration Lens correction Clarity works different in both Personas Noise reductions works different So the advise is do as little in Develop, then switch to Photo. But on the other hand is a question of personal preferences and style. If you want to, do more in Develop Persona.

Seriously, this is not possible? I was trying to do that just now, and hunting around for the Copy/Paste of adjustments which I assumed was possible. So I went to Google and found this thread. If I can't copy raw adjustments from one image to a bunch of others, AP Develop Persona is of little use to me. I was all excited about the new non-destructive raw editing but it looks like this is over before it even started. What a bummer!

If you see no benefit in it, I fully understand, although I cannot understand your reasons for doing so. Other users - like me - would very much appreciate such functionality. I gave a few reasons in my post above: By the way: the term non-destructive in this context refers to the fact that you can get back into the Develop Persona at any time without losing your settings. Anyone who shoots in RAW format and uses RAW converters should know the difference between the raw data and JPEG or TIFF.

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums. If you're developing to a non-destructive RAW layer, then I believe you will need to rasterize the layer before you can change its pixels. You have a choice of the output layer when you first enter the Develop Persona. The Context Toolbar will let you specify whether you want a pixel layer or one of the RAW layer formats (embedded, linked). If you've chosen a RAW format, and then decide you need to work on the layer's pixels, you can right-click the layer in the Layers panel and choose Rasterize. Or you can duplicate the layer and rasterize the copy.

Hi guys, I realise we've had this discussion before with V1 of Affinity Photo. However, this is one of the biggest stumbling blocks I have to making any real use of AP ion an iPad, and upgrading to V2. The desktop version integrates so well with Apple Photos, yet the iPad version seems a complete bodge. At the least, have you improved the library navigation, so we don't get a random flat list of all the albums? (which have been carefully organised into logical folder/albums sets in Photos). I'm sticking to V1 at the moment, as I'm reluctant to pay for an upgrade if this at least hasn't been improved. I've read a few forum threads on this, and it does appear to be causing problems for some users. Particularly the Shortcut workaround, which is somewhat erratic in how reliable it is. Of course compared to other apps, there is certainly a fair bit of variation as to how well any of them get this to work. It's certainly possible for the iPad users though - both Pixelmator and Raw Power make this a really seamless operation, and maintain non-destructive editing. Are there any plans at all to improve this functionality? Cheers. Andy

Hi Swingnsaxman, Do you have a question, wanting help with over-exposure, exporting, or just making a statement? Could it be, you actually over-exposed your image? You certainly know that doing so, the data is gone, no way to recover it. Also I think you really mean by your statement about "can't spend hours beating my head against the wall", you can't be bothered learning another software. You spent time learning Photoshop, a lot of time. PS is not an easy piece of software to learn, very complex. I agree that there shouldn't be an issue with exporting. Are you using version 1 or 2 of Affinity Photo? You do know the Develop Persona is now non-destructive, so long as when you develop, you have the Output set to either Raw Embedded or Raw Linked. You can take the image right back into the Develop Persona and make changes. They're not baked in until you choose to rasterize the image. Can be really helpful when the exposure needs tweaking. Yes there are problems still with Affinity apps. Serif is working on correcting the bugs. If they had 1/3rd the staff of Adobe, they would have them corrected by now. Since they don't, it takes a lot more time. Granted, some of the bugs have been around for way too long. Photoshop, Affinity, On1, Lightroom, ect, are just tools. Use the one(s) that will get the job done for you. You ever work on cars? If the wrench you pick up does not loosen or tighten the bolt, might be the wrong size, do you just keep trying to make it work or grab another that will?

Are these export of the images from Photo V1/V2? Or are these screenshots of what is happening in the Affinity viewport? Same zoom levels? Is this the exact same RAW file loaded into Develop Persona? Absolutely no changes after? Otherwise, we can't really say for sure why things are different. I haven't noticed that my RAWs load differently (Nikon D5600 here). I never really used Affinity's RAW editor in V1, but now that it has non-destructive, I'm much more keen now to use it and am using it more regularly.

Your screenshot shows you have developed your CR3 file as Pixel output (destructive) You have to output it as Embedded or Linked (non-destructive) when first developing your CR3 file. You will find those options in the context toolbar when in the develop persona but only when you first develop a RAW file

Indeed, editing on an image pixel layer is destructive. However, if you create an empty pixel layer, you can clone and heal on that layer, which is non-destructive. This leaves your raw layer untouched, which can be re-developed if necessary. Win-win 😉.

i would also like to have the non-destructive raw-editing for normal pixel layer. i'm working in most cases with scanned negative, renderings, pictures in all kinds of file types and so on. it's a lot easier to make adjustments in raw-editing, then layer-by-layer/ masks, like in the old days... e.g. the only option to make a lens correction is in a.photo the develop persona. the live perspective filter is not the same and really hard to control. in this version of a.photo is the only use for real raw-images and not for graphic editing in the whole spectrum. also the possibility to save presets in all kinds of way makes it a lot easier. i really hope, that's not what's affinitys intention is.

Graphic Converter has some powerful digital asset management features such as the Browser which works with your existing file structure and has extensive metadata tools (for instance, ExifTool is built in), convert and modify, powerful batch processing, renaming tools, face recognition, ratings, labels and tags, non-destructive editing in Cocooner, basic RAW editing, cataloging to print or html, etc etc. It took me a few days just to go through the multiple preference options (which fortunately can be exported to a reloadable file). The trial is not time-limited and is fully functioning. MacOS only. It's still under active development by Thorsten Lemke who originally released it in 1992!