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6 minutes ago, JET_Affinity said:

There are plenty of programs I have no use for. So I don't use them. And I don't waste my own time repeatedly asking their makers "WHEN is such-and-such going to occur?!" 

JET

Good for you :6_smile:
Luckily, not everyone is the same as you.

Some other people would like Affinity suite to be superior and a real competititon to the Adobe package. And to be able to work for them, when it currently doesn't.

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9 minutes ago, JET_Affinity said:

There are plenty of programs I have no use for. So I don't use them. And I don't waste my own time repeatedly asking their makers "WHEN is such-and-such going to occur?!"

JET

So instead you waste your time butting in on conversations that are of no interest to you. I know which I think has more value :4_joy:

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2 minutes ago, CLC said:

Good for you :6_smile:
Luckily, not everyone is the same as you.

Some other people would like Affinity suite to be superior and a real competititon to the Adobe package.

Then "some other people" are lucky enough to be like me.

What do you people expect to get from demands like this?:

User: "WHEN IS [my pet feature] GOING TO BE PROVIDED?"

Serif: "December 25th, 9:15 AM."

?

JET

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Just now, JET_Affinity said:

Then "some other people" are lucky enough to be like me. 

What do you people expect to get from demands like this?: 

User: "WHEN IS [my pet feature] GOING TO BE PROVIDED?"

Serif: "December 25th, 9:15 AM."

?

JET

I don't demand anything. I conversate. I joined a request thread, adding my points and am waiting for anyone relevant to tell me, in pure binary:

1 - feature will be added
or
0 - feature won't be added

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Just now, JET_Affinity said:

Then "some other people" are lucky enough to be like me.

What do you people expect to get from demands like this?:

User: "WHEN IS [my pet feature] GOING TO BE PROVIDED?"

Serif: "December 25th, 9:15 AM."

?

JET

It's called applying pressure. The a major point of these forums is to communicate what is needed and why. That's what we're doing.

It's pretty dumb to equate 'when is feature X coming' to a specific time and date. I'd be very happy with a 'it is due to be included in version 1.8' for example. Or less happily '2.0'

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4 minutes ago, robinp said:

So instead you waste your time butting in on conversations that are of no interest to you.

Butting in? This is a public forum.

I'm here because I do not find Affinity "useless" just because it doesn't yet have every feature it eventually will. Your questions have been answered. Serif is not going to tell you "when." I wouldn't expect them to.

JET

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1 minute ago, JET_Affinity said:

Butting in? This is a public forum.

I'm here because I do not find Affinity "useless" just because it doesn't yet have every feature it eventually will. Your questions have been answered. Serif is not going to tell you "when." I wouldn't expect them to.

JET

Quite patently my questions have not been answered.

Butting in and being a public forum are not mutually exclusive. Of course it is a public forum, but turning up and telling people they are wasting their time is not really contributing to the discussion. It is also hypocritical.

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It's called applying pressure.

10 minutes ago, robinp said:

It's called applying pressure.

It's called the silly belief that if you merely scream the loudest and most repetitively ask "When? When? When?" and make ridiculous claims that the program is absolutely useless without your pet feature, then you will somehow win out over every other person who employs the very same tactic about their pet feature.

JET

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Just now, JET_Affinity said:

It's called applying pressure.

It's called the silly belief that if you merely scream the loudest and most repetitively ask "When? When? When?" and make ridiculous claims that the program is absolutely without your pet feature, then you will somehow win out over every other person who employs the very same tactic about their pet feature.

JET

That's a really asinine take on it.

The only time I have felt like screaming is when reading your replies.

What are the 'ridiculous claims' made? This is sounding suspiciously like you think you somehow know more about me and my work than I do.

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2 hours ago, robinp said:

Hi @MEB

Sure, so when is this feature coming? The constant prevarication is what's creating the frustration. 

Hi robinp,
Serif don't give etas for any specific feature (as explained several times elsewhere). There's no "prevarication" as there's no commitment with any dates (precisely to avoid even more frustration if they aren't met) among other reasons. I'm sorry if this is not enough for you but it's all I can provide.

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Does Serif like money? Do they want market share? I would have thought a good way of going about this is to take the top X requested features and implement those if at all possible (or give a good reason why they cannot). So they got a one time payment from me (great), but it's difficult for me to use 1.x or upgrade/purchase 2.x without this feature. Reading through this thread, I'm sure a lot of other people are in the same boat, but perhaps not.

I think a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that as users, we instinctively know we can click on an object to select it. We can ctrl-click, or shift-click to select multiple objects. We see that objects must have a list of parameters (color, line weight, layer etc.) so surely making a dialogue box that interrogates those attributes and selects based on some parameter must be easy right?

From what I see, this is one of the most requested features - so either it is impossible (or very difficult) to implement, not a priority (top requested feature..?!?) or it's being saved for 2.x to tempt people to upgrade when the time comes. This forum is for giving feedback - my feedback is that without this feature, Designer just doesn't work for a lot of what *I* do and isn't a completely viable alternative to Illustrator at this time. If I'm the niche - so be it, sucks to be me. If Serif are ignoring a huge potential customer base by adding a feature that will grow market share, that's a shame. If it's really hard to implement because of <reasons> then why not just say it? We are not moaning for the sake of moaning - most people (including me!) *really* want an alternative to Adobe right now and actually want Serif to succeed by making this piece of software better. What is the point of this forum otherwise?

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6 hours ago, MEB said:

There's no "prevarication" as there's no commitment with any dates

This is wrong. Your answer is, I’m afraid, more prevarication. 

I appreciate the help you’ve provided previously, but surely you and Serif realise this status quo cannot continue. It is damaging the reputation of the software and the company that this is and has been fobbed off for so long.

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16 minutes ago, ErrkaPetti said:

Serif increased their customer base with more than 100% last year, and, I don’t think that unsatisfied customer is in majority...

There are bugs and that’s some missing features, but overall the average user here thinks that Affinity Suite rocks... 

I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, but explain to me how this saga reflects in anything other than a negative light?

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37 minutes ago, robinp said:

prevarication

This is a rather unusual word.  I've never seen it before this thread.

I tried looking it up and the definition basically means "lie" or "deception by skirting around the details" - there is no deception here, no lying going on.  Yes, details are being omitted, but in order to avoid deceiving people.

I think you might want to reconsider this word choice.

 

This thread has degraded into a great example of why Serif does not normally comment on feature requests.  I don't blame them.

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4 minutes ago, fde101 said:

This is a rather unusual word.  I've never seen it before this thread.

I tried looking it up and the definition basically means "lie" or "deception by skirting around the details" - there is no deception here, no lying going on.  Yes, details are being omitted, but in order to avoid deceiving people.

I think you might want to reconsider this word choice.

 

This thread has degraded into a great example of why Serif does not normally comment on feature requests.  I don't blame them.

Oh you do have a habit of being insufferable don’t you. 

D0C3BCA9-F8F4-4061-993D-FBDAE5D4BFD3.thumb.jpeg.482190e5025bd00f52a4585ddc345751.jpeg

Maybe when you’ve never seen a word before and therefore do not understand its meaning or use, better to lay off telling those that do how to use it. 

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11 minutes ago, robinp said:

better to lay off telling those that do how to use it

I looked it up in the dictionary.  If you mean something else by it, then what dictionary can I find that in - or can you provide your definition?

 

EDIT: now that the definition was added - that does differ from the definitions I am finding for that word.  All of the other sources I am finding indicate that the word implies deception.  I doubt I will be the only reader who has not seen that word before, so others would be likely to draw that same conclusion if faced with that same word and trying to look it up.

I still don't think that this word fits what Serif is doing, but at least the connotations don't seem to be there that I was reading into it, so for that I'll meet you half way - no project of any complexity wants to commit to a date for having something done.  That would be foolish.  They are not being evasive, simply realistic.  Also, this is not an "open" project no matter how much the openness of the forum might suggest - this is a commercial endeavor, so there will be some things that they necessarily need to keep a lid on until they are ready to roll them out.

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Oh, geez, I love that word. I mean, it is itself prevarication.

My grandmother would use it to us kids when she either didn't know if we were actually lying to her or obfuscating the truth by not telling her the whole truth and thereby attempting to deceive her.

The word and its usage goes beyond the simple, single definition given above. Even so, one cannot (should not) apply that definition to this situation. Else Serif is guilty of a whole lotta prevarication as this is their standard response to any and all estimates of future features. 

No one is going to goad Serif into a revelation of what/when features will be added...unless they are about ready to commit to them (as has been done in the past).

Mike

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2 hours ago, fde101 said:

no project of any complexity wants to commit to a date for having something done

That is wrong. Any construction project will have a completion date committed into contract. Of course, meeting it might not always happen. In the design stages we would normally have a design programme and that would be more for guidance and organisation purposes. These could both be considered “projects” of significant complexity. 

 

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

The word and its usage goes beyond the simple, single definition given above

I disagree and indeed, I’ve since looked up many definitions and they all seem to basically say the same thing which also happens to correlate with my understanding of it. 

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3 hours ago, robinp said:

Serif increased their customer base with more than 100% last year,

And what percentage of those new customers find themselves in the same boat as many others here - that they now have purchased a product which is unusable in many projects for which they purchased it? Increased purchases does not equal active users.

This is my circumstance: I cannot use AD for many of my projects just for this missing feature. And having no commitment - or even recognition of its inclusion on the timeline -  from the developers for the implementation of this (most requested) feature makes me unwilling to put in the effort to learn a new software package, when I may never be able to utilize it fully. 

My hope, and that of many others here, is to avoid the Adobe extortion/rental situation. Sadly, AD is not the solution to that.

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I agree we're all in the same boat with certain missing features desired and all wishing our fav-feature was next in line to be implemented. I'm not happy the features list got removed a couple weeks ago. Even if we can't get solid dates of completion, it's nice to know what main features are on the radar. I get frustrated with the slow pace like all of you.

That said, while I can't use Affinity to complete my entire daily workflow just yet, I can do quite a bit and I can use Affinity for as many tasks as possible before bailing back to Adobe or wherever. Each time I do this, my knowledge and experience with Affinity grows and I feel more comfortable all the time with the apps. Involving myself in Affinity more all the time allows me to feel more and more free of the Adobe subscription robbery scheme.

The alternative is to "boycott" using the Affinity apps until they have all the features we need to fully complete our projects - waiting would put us behind in our familiarity and practice with the apps. 

Most of us have no idea how much work and effort and investment and time are involved in building these features we use desire. Illustrator was designed in a different era. We are seeing an amazing trio of apps built to challenge the behemoth... Rome was not built in a day. We know Affinity realizes already what features we most desire and have a plan in place to get them built, tested and added to the Affinity arsenal - in the wise words of Axl Rose, "just a little patience'!

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8 hours ago, haakoo said:

You are not working at Serif and therefor not knowing what goals they have set for themselves and nor should you know because of the aforementioned reasons.
And calling a company deceitful is just plain sad in whatever obscure definitions you want to write or say it.

You’ve written that in reply to me pointing out that in building design and construction that you have completion dates and programmes. That is a fact. 

The definition for prevaricate is not obscure. Neither does it mean deceitful. 

So what are you on about?

edit: I’m genuinely surprised that so few appear to know the word ‘prevaricate’. I didn’t expect this thread to partially became a debate about a word I’ve known and used for years. It isn’t unusual to me or many people around me. It has been interesting though, the way that some have reacted. Some using partial, incomplete or wrong definitions of it and leaping to conclusions. Some making the classic defensive anti-intelligence move of ridiculing it as ‘obscure’ such as the above.

Both are sad. Both say more about the person saying it than they do about me for using it, and using it correctly. 

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