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From the first day AP was released for Windows (even the beta) I was desperately trying to make AP work for me .... I wanted AP to be the THE (first real) alternative for PS (considering I couldn't find enough swear words for Adobe and their cloud policy). I was accepting and reporting all bugs you obviously had to expect from a sw that complex. I was trying to make the product better as quick as possible by generating test cases, videos to show bugs and even offering Serif my support in development and localisation. And seeing the sw that had great features, good customer support, a big crowd of (active) fans and users - what could go wrong to make AP the new PS in a long term? As you can see I'd do everything to make this baby mine. One can hardly approach a product more positively than I did with AP ...

 

After all that time I see myself closing PS6 tonight working on a customer project and I'm asking myself: why do I still not(!) use AP? AP actually hast most (>95%) of the functions I frequently use in my daily work as a photographer. Even the plugins work in AP. Some functions are even more powerful than in PS6. Still I don't even think of AP when it comes to productive work for customers. And it's not because I'm used to PS ... not because it's a habit - there are very real reasons for it. Some of them I often mentioned before but serif keeps ignoring them up to the stage of not even bother to make any kind of comment. So I though I'd open this topic and bring my issues (again) to the attention of serif staff and other users ... maybe I'm not the only one.

 

To find some good examples for my problems I decided to take a current project that requires stacking (where I feel AP is a lot easier with than PS). 7 RAW pictures that require alignment and focus stacking to adapt different areas of the picture. And what I'm describing now is not an exception ... things I describe are not necessarily reproduceable ... but it does not happen with ANY OTHER PROGRAM I use on my machine (just for those who already start blaming the state of my system as a scapegoat!). And whenever I start AP known and new things like that happen. I'm using lots of memory and disk space ... a still reasonably quick graphics card and processor on Win 7!
After taking some time for reading the 7 big RAW files, aligning them and doing the focus stacking I get the processed picture. As well as a source list including all of my stacked single pics and the resulting pic. I add a levels filter and a curve filter to the file. Already after adding the curve filter the histogram is not displayed any more. I know this bug. It has been reported quite a while ago by me (and maybe other people) - apparently wasn't looked after. This does not always happen ... and is not clearly reproduceable, but since levels and curve setting are pretty useless unless you can see the histogram (except for those who do not know what they are doing) it is a bit of a bummer. Certainly knowing that it can only be solved by saving the picture and restarting AP. So I skipped this step and clicked on the first single stacked picture in the displayed list. First of all not even the focus did change to the newly selected picture I clicked on. 5 Seconds later AP completely disappeared and Lightroom was the active application (first I thought AP did crash, but it did not ... it just completely lost it's focus) ... so by clicking the task list I could get it back ... the behaviour interestingly was reproduceable. Now going to the develop persona and coming back to the photo persona the "source list" was reduced to one file called "untitled". Where did all the 8 files disappear to? OK, better don't ask. Now I want to compare the newly stacked picture with another similar picture I took. So I decide to undock the current window. Really a bad idea ... the new window does not resize but moves somewhere mostly outside the current working area. (Just as ONE example: when I do this in PS the new window resize to the layer size and displays with a certain distance at the top left corner of the workspace. PS comes with ready made presets for windows alignment. PS allowns a window to adapt to the picture size all the time. With AP it takes me ages to adjust this new window to the working area I'd like to have. And believe me I really tried hard to get it working or to adapt to this ridiculous user-hostile attitude - no chance. For those who did not get it yet: There is a good reason why the PS Window Menu has more than 25 additional commands for window adjustments - it's not because they had nothing else to do!)

 

But many other things really set me up .... it's this lack of responsiveness of the UI (sometimes) ... you sometimes can drag sliders and they will not move ... or maybe with significant delay (seconds later). Sudden changes of focussed windows for reasons I don't understand (so you have to click in the window again you want to work in). Trying to confirm an action e.g. in a Windows UI manner (pressing Enter if you want to confirm a setting) and nothing will happen. Lacking "OK" and "Cancel" buttons so dialogs will remain open unless you find this tiny cross at the top. Settings I can't save (standard values in dialogs), paths AP will not remember (saving a picture where I loaded the original from). The export persona tries successfully to hide my user setting for standardised output format (bi-cubic,sRGB, JPG) as the last(!) entry in an extensive long list of useless "Standard" setting ... and it makes me search my standard setting for EACH picture I do export ... it seems to me like Serif is challenging my stamina and endurance in so many ways.

 

I could go on and on on theses topics... my conclusion and answer to the question "why there's still no love" would be the following:

Serif build an high performance Aston Martin Sports car ... but when you want to open the door you break your finger nails, the steering wheel is covered with nettles and the safety belt will come loose while driving. The gas pump nozzle is mounted in the middle of the roof, the bonnet occasionally opens while driving and it takes 15 switches 3 hooks and an armoured metal plate to get to the opener for the boot as well as many other obstructions. In a race against the Adobe Maserati it can easily keep up, is quicker in some curves sometimes even drives offroad ... But what car do you like to drive and will you choose to drive to work? Sadly Serif does not realise, understand nor care for these essentials at all! They can't stop celebrating AP won races (now on an iPad) ... and seem to forget that there a people around need to use the car on a daily base ...

I'm not waiting for Affinity Publisher ... I'm waiting for AP to get a daily working horse!
Cheers, Timo

All descriptions refer to the latest final Version 1.5.2.69


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570, Windows 7 Enterprise 64Bit, SP 1 - AP and AD latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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Hi Timo

 

Probably, we are in the same boat. Desperately trying to use AP in a real production environment because of


A, Want to give up with Adobe & B, Loving the potential AP has to offer


 

But then there's the already mentioned shortcomings when it comes to stability problems, and performance.

Could I care less about Publisher? Yes. And about Photo for iPad? Hell, yes! And what about all the other feature requests? Of course.

I don't want to have a full-packed car (to follow your example) with all the most modern, neat optional extras, when I need a car that, first and foremost, will take me far and with the assurance to not break throughout the trip.

With the risk to sound repetitive and presumptuous, I'm not afraid to express my idea that most of the users' needs here are for fun, some random exploration, or minimal resources, and I say this because I, myself, when I need to tweak a few layers with a small res image, most likely don't have issues as the demands, in that case, are quite basic.

And also because I firmly believe that if I need to take a job from start to finish, is not this or that feature that will make it possible, I'm not afraid to take a few extra steps to achieve the task. What it will make it possible, meeting the deadline my client gave me, is a stable product I can rely on, and not only because a crash or a slow workflow will have a negative effect on my deadline, but also because it will affect my creativity.

 

That being said, why the focus seems still to be oriented toward those requests more than anything else? That, I don't know. It almost feels as if Serif is realizing their creation has a tremendous potential but they are afraid to embrace the journey. I know resources on their end are limited, but then again, why they would give priority to secondary aspects rather than taking their flagships to the status they deserve, is beyond my understanding.

 

Take for instance the GPU. There's been some talking here on the forum about all the technical limits and quirks in adopting such technology, and yet no one said a word on this:


Which is the proof that GPU can be used for an image editor as well (despite they say is not possible).

It also occurred to me this: why Serif should take the GPU route when on the Mac side GPU is behind, creating a disparity between PC and MAC? So, there you go, here's an answer.

 

Thus, perhaps Serif is totally fine with the current situation which fits many averages users and, with time (probably) they'll get there and AP will become the solid editor we want today.

Probably the user base they're aiming to is the one that asks for those extra features, because that's what keeps them coming.

I don't know. I feel your frustration, though, as every time I need to open PS I think "how much better it would be if right now I could work with Affinity!"

If only Serif would have created something ugly, it would be easier to give up :)

But I find myself surprised how after all these months, each time I try to work in AP I keep feeling the same enthusiasm about working with it.

 

So, yes, it would be nice to get a feedback from a moderator, at least to understand what's their plan: not the roadmap, and not "we'll get there", I'm talking about giving priority, at least for a few next release cycles, to what matters to another part of the users: a fast car that can take us far.

 


Andrew
-
Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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Yes, and I won't hold my breath, I don't think we'll get some feedback on this ;)


Andrew
-
Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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MikeW, honestly ... whatever I did with AD ... wasn't even close to the multitude of "bad workflow design" of Affinity Photo ... In AD we're talking about small "hickups" ... not a workflow "crash" and desasterous UI as in AP ... maybe I did not spend enough time with AD .. but whatever I did was more or less reasonably working ... and it wasn't just drawing lines ... ;-) ...have a look:

post-29950-0-23448600-1498524666_thumb.jpg


 


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570, Windows 7 Enterprise 64Bit, SP 1 - AP and AD latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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Yes, InDesign is way smoother for basic print production.

For illustration, that may be different story.

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First off, I would like to thank Serif for their products they offering.

I bought all three Affinity products (AP, AD and Workbook) and I'm more than happy, even if some tools (main tools, if I'm honest) are missing.

So thumbs up!

 

Now, about all the concerns from the professional guys here:

 

Altough I'm not professional, I do understand and agree, that Serif should listen more to the needs of the professional. It is also ok (and important) to listen to the "average" users.

However, I think it was a huge mistake from Affinity's marketing department to announce their products for more than two operating systems. Now all the media talks about it and

more and more people are attracted to the products - which is not bad, but that also means, a new huge community with huge amount of new needs, Affinity can't possibly implement

in the near future. There is simply not enough staff available.

 

I hope Serif will not make the same mistakes in the near future again and focus more on improving and refining their product line.

 

If Serif wants to get more serious attention from the industry, it would be wise to listen more to the needs from the professional.

The best advertisement a Graphic/Design software can get, is from the professional industry itself - not a short mention and presentation at Apple's WWDC!

A happy professional Designer is more than willingly to help spread and advertise softwares he works with. Colleagues within the industry would give it a try and more

customers from younger generations that are looking up to their role models in the industry.

 

So my Advice to Serif is: Stop listen to the Marketing Department. They did great, but now it is time to focus only on your products and customers needs alone.

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Come on guys, it wouldn't be fair to compare AD with InDesign or QXP ... they are different tools for different purposes. And - as I said earlier - I'd be happy for serif to focus on getting AP done right instead of additionally looking for a DTP application as many "fanboys" here request urgently ...

@verysame: serif never commented on topics like this - nor did anything about it to change things to the better .... the next AP release will have many bugs fixed and some new features but workflow an smoothness will be the same again ... been there, experienced than many times ...
Quite a while ago I started a list of workflow and UI-topics but hardly anything of this list has changed until know. I got tiered now to extend the list since noone seems to respond or care anyhow:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/33589-ap-new-handling-and-functional-features/


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570, Windows 7 Enterprise 64Bit, SP 1 - AP and AD latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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With all due respect for everyone who has posted to this topic, this issue has much less to do with Affinity's developers & staff listening to user needs, professional or not, than with what is practical for them to implement in any particular time frame. Please consider the following:

 

They have mentioned many times that what seems a simple feature to users may be very difficult & time consuming to implement, particularly given the constraints imposed by the 'universal' native Affinity file format, the need to preserve as much as possible cross-platform feature parity, the relatively modest system requirements, & so on.

 

Different "professional users" need different toolsets & adopt different workflows so please, can we dispense with the fiction that anybody can speak for the needs of all or even most of them, regardless of their credentials, how long they have been in the business, or who they know? It isn't realistic, & I find it hard to believe that anybody -- most particularly professional users -- do not already know that.

 

It follows from that that it is just as unrealistic to assume most Affinity users are equally interested in the same things, be it stability improvements, feature improvements or additions, the development of other Affinity apps, or the expansion to the iOS (or possibly other) platforms.

 

Likewise, different users have different reasons for buying & using or wanting to buy & use the Affinity apps. It is pretty obvious a major one is dislike for Adobe's subscription model & the relatively low prices of the Affinity apps. Some users also want to support Affinity because they believe completion is good for all users, even those who won't buy the Affinity products for one reason or another, or because they believe buying the apps now will pay off in the future when their payments help finance further or more rapid development.

 

So I have to ask, what is it that you hope posting to this topic will accomplish?


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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@ R C-R: I partially agree with you. Noone was stating that my requirements are "general requirements" that everybody has. Everyone obviously has different needs. And many people don't care for usability, stability or a proper workflow. If I'm just looking for another pixel program for occasional cropping holiday pictures and enhancing brightness this all might not be of any interest! But my impression was serif is aiming for professionals and trying to be competetive to PS or better. Here my comments come into the game since my requirements are based on what PS does and can. They are base on what I need to be able to work efficient with the product. Features are only one side of the story and to gain those customers that really want to use AP as a working horse it is absolutely necessary to adress these concerns - elswise I (and I assume many other professionals) will have to continue using PS, wait for another competitor or for AP to seriously improve!

I'm just doing what most poeple do on this forum: giving constructive feedback! Stating my concerns. Not doing so would leave this forum and the feedback to those who cry for Affinity Publisher to come. I consider it as important to make those voices heard that are looking for a real PS alternative! Majority of useres or not does not matter. I'm not the one to drive AP development so I can only hope that my oppinion gets heard as well aside all other ones ... And I perceive it as important to mention that these topics are not some kind of "minor suggestion" but absolutely essential for starting to seriously work with AP! As I said in my entry posting: I'm still using PS instead of AP ... serif should be aware that AP in real life and professional working environments is no alternative - yet! And I'm trying to explain what's the reason for it. So I see it as an opportunity for serif to get people like me eventually into using the product in their daily work ...


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570, Windows 7 Enterprise 64Bit, SP 1 - AP and AD latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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serif never commented on topics like this -

 

 

That's not really true. They did, very gently in the first bunch posted. I was there when they did reply you, several times. But IMO they got tired of finding certain attitude (and they're quite patient people...), IMO.

 

I have carefully read the issues you mention here. Of course, those are issues, if are happening in your side. IMO, somewhat maximized, though: I yet to think of a single software not having certain version with certain workflow show-stopper. Indeed, a pro finds those way easier/faster than an average user. And I'm certainly of the former group, just very slightly different field(fields). I can remember MANY issues in PS in the past, even after many years in the market,  (well..still are, in other areas that you probably touch less. Big ones, indeed), Corel Draw, PhotoPaint,  Zbrush, Illustrator and several others of the pro graphic apps. Indeed, one clearly 'pro' characteristic is to be able to adapt to that, find a clever way. 

 

But... giving to you the benefit of doubt, and considering then that you really can't work comfortably with the current state of things in AP, I am extremely curious .. Why don't then you just go back to PS, which, obviously for you is so much better? And I mean, even to the full package?. Yeh, I dislike subscription models, but  definitely 50 or 60 bucks per month is not  the kind of money that can stop anyone, being a professional (or even a hobbyist, if serious and living in US, Europe...where the coin difference/economy doesn't make that an issue), to let it be a factor in such an important decision: your main tools to use. Even more, you say AD works better for you (maybe simply you do use it less, I believe you mention it) , so, could go for the Photography Plan is like 12 euros per month, dirty cheap.... I mean, is not like it is a single thread new this month: You have been complaining about many things for quite some time. Is obvious to me that you are not happy with the tool...Why then keep at it? This effort and energy put into some project might have been more convenient for you, I don't know. Trying to understand, but is not easy....

 

I'm definitely not a photographer, but I use very intensively in most projects a lot of the features (or...just buttons) that you complain about (and others about which you complained in the past, and some of those issues were really minor, sorry), and am also in Windows... Also to say that I am quite a multi-tool user, and I can do my work with practically anything if even distantly fits the job. Rarely tied to a single app, since quite some time. (not gonna mention them here, but today seems to be more options than ever in history for image and photo editing software....) With enough skills, a one-stop software is not an absolute need (indeed, very varied, and full of frequent obstacles/issues in workflows are almost a definition of what is professional activity. We are not average users, so really complex stuff, many bumps in the road -be it the app, the project, the client...- are totally expected , and often new challenges per day. I mean, this hardness is in its nature).

 

And there are really great specialized tools. I mean, even if going back to PS is clearly sth you do not want do, otherwise you'd be gone since a while,  (while imo, for you it seems would be the sensible thing to do, as you obviously think PS does not  have these or other problems) you still would have the option of mounting your workflow with some exceptional specialized tools that are available today, that in their areas are often better in that specific feature than both PS and AP in those regards. And then, keep so your workflow steady and going on, and wait for a more matured AP in the future. I mean, that or going back to PS sound actually both quite professional and sensible routes, if that is your situation. It escapes to my understanding why don't you just do this or go back to PS, if you are this level of  unhappiness with the state of things in Affinity. I'm quite in the opposite feel about Affinity tools, but definitely, if I had such strong complaints and feel about it, I wouldn't even bother ever about the tools, but not even for a second, let alone months or years... So, I definitely don't see the point... Is like a lot of threads (and posts in many other threads, but in this line, too) like this that I have read from you. And definitely some of those in the past contained IMHO quite unimportant issues, maximized to the level of terrible in more than one way.. But that's my 2c (but it's quite clear to me the situation, just I understand each one can have a very dramatic view of things, I don't see the point, but hey, people act strange, at times... )

 

Edit: No harsh feeling, in case it sounds a bit dry. In other complaining-threads I was more of a bit shocked -because I didn't, and don't agree with your opinions about the state of things (or how you maximize issues, better said)-  but now is just that, after all this time, I simply can't understand why, if you have so many complaints (and in a certain strong way) , then why don't just go back to PS Photography Plan (if you left it, or do it as new if you never subscribed). As indeed, tools for a pro are mission critical to not even doubt it a second to go for whatever works best for you...Trying to see the logic.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I am not somebody who likes subscription model (unless done with a purchase option to get a permanent non subscription license, as some other houses do)  I know in the total sum is much more expensive. But if he finds it so bad for his day by day work, the comparison with the past would be less of an argument, I'd consider if i can work or not with the tools (AP or PS). We are talking 120$ per year, it should not stop any professional activity, is quite affordable, imo. I dislike the model and the policy and some other aspects of it, but that's another matter.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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@SrPx: First of all I'd like to appologize for what you call "a certain (negative) attitude" ... By no means I meant to offend anybody ... nor was any "aggressive" intention or offensive state of mind involved - in contrary! If my way to phrase things got across in any negative way this might be related to cultural differences in the way I choose my wording in german language. Sometimes we (or maybe just myself) lack the sensitivity that native english speaking people communicate in ... I'll try to improve!

I'm aware I did bring up some issues a few times before ... honestly, I seriously can't remember any serif replies with content except the "welcome" response everyone gets ... of course there were certain (many) answers on obvious bugs and open questios - but that's not related to the current topics that have been ignored for more than half a year and never got commented on.

Why I just don't get back to PS? That's excactly what I'm doing (read my leading post)! I am working with PS because AP currently is no alternative! Even though it's completly out of topic - but I'll answer anyhow: I still perceive PS6 as the far better product. I own CS6 and paid 1400€ for the version years ago. It's by no means about the money. Would still be paying updtate money if I could own the standalone SW in future. I want to be the owner of a SW! I will not allow any company to deny my any further (fututre) usage of the SW - since the majority of my source files are based on PSD. Since Adobe does not offer the standalone soloution any more and I'm not willing to get blackmailed soon (Adobe is already increasing monthly charges), a new SW soloution is without alternative. As long as there's no equivalent SW available I'll go on working with the last PS version I paid for - CS6. Desperately waiting for AP to keep up! And I believe in the product!!! ... serif is up to 90% ... but struggeling with the last 10%. I want this SW to be my next working horse!

BTW: complaining about things for quite a while "can" be an indication for a "nerdy customer" - or an essential issue that hasn't been taking care of (ignored) for quite a long tine ;-) ... And yes ... some things I mention may be considered as "minor" ... as long as you don't need them in daily work. Once you're running across them 100 times a day you'll think differently! And again - this is my personal workflow and does not refer to other users. Some people do not even realise that they have to re-enter the deeply nested networkfolder for saving a picture each time again and again and again - 150 times a day ... they will find my concern irritating and annoying. To be very clear - I can overcome most of the issues in AP with restarting the application, using other applications or bringing up lot of patience!! So IT CAN BE DONE! Great, if it doesn't matter for you - AP is the tool for you. But it's just not what I consider a professional workflow! And it's not what I'm willing to keep up with.

Sometimes I'm really surprised that it seems so hard to accept that people are in favour of something (AP) and still criticise it in detail. The world is not black and white ... I struggle with the concept of: either you are with us - or against us. I can deal with people disagreeing with me - can't deal with people telling me to stop criticising and asking me to just be happy (Just use PS and shut up) ... it only tells me you did not get my point ;-) I want AP to be my next daily photo sw soloution. I'll do quite a bit to get it there ... regardless if some people think I'm spoiling the party ... fanboys never changed the world! - No harsh feelings ;-)
 


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570, Windows 7 Enterprise 64Bit, SP 1 - AP and AD latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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[...]

 

Different "professional users" need different toolsets & adopt different workflows so please, can we dispense with the fiction that anybody can speak for the needs of all or even most of them, regardless of their credentials, how long they have been in the business, or who they know? It isn't realistic, & I find it hard to believe that anybody -- most particularly professional users -- do not already know that.

 

It follows from that that it is just as unrealistic to assume most Affinity users are equally interested in the same things, be it stability improvements, feature improvements or additions, the development of other Affinity apps, or the expansion to the iOS (or possibly other) platforms.

 

[...]

 

R C-R,

 

I find very hard to understand the logic of that statement. One thing is asking for features and I agree, considered all the different jobs and all the personal preferences, it is impossible to please everyone. But saying that not everyone wants to have a stable program is really beyond my logic. I never met a professional who would be OK on sacrificing stability, it really does-not-make-any-sense. I know, from our previous conversations, you will hardly agree and most likely will keep defending your position :)

 

Now, the reason why stability is not the first in the list of Serif's priorities is not exactly because of the fiction you propose, not at all. It's a commercial reason, and it makes totally sense and I, for one, now that I have got a better clue of this situation, I will deal with it and wait patiently. I'm not sure when (or if) I'll see the Affinity Photo I'm hoping for, but I will keep supporting Serif, buying any next release of their products. I will because it's the best option designers had in years of monopoly, because I personally think is a better and more fun workflow than other counterparts, because doesn't cost me an arm and a leg and doesn't tie me to any subscription nonsense.

 

Best


Andrew
-
Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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An extremely interesting read and very similar to occasional threads in my world of pro-video.

Respectfully I would make the following points:

If you are a professional you need the tools that do the job. If AP, which is still not at vers 2, doesn't cut it for you then you need to stay with PS until it does. 

Whilst I have basic requirements from a graphic/photo software, AP is still missing the features I use and need, i.e. re-editing text in psd, layer comps and related scripts, aspect ratio...my AP is on my laptop for "domestic" use and not on my edit systems.

I will review updates as they arrive but as I am on a pre CC version it's no big deal. IF I needed features to do my work only available from CC then that would be the tool I would use. 

Back in my world, I edit with GV Edius and dabble with Resolve. On the GV forum often missing features will be flagged. Well if Premiere or FCP or Avid has features you need to do your work, then you need to make a decision. I can edit and deliver TV Commercials, or 10 camera live shows and all things in between - if I couldn't I would use something else. Yes there maybe features that would be "nice" but if they were game changers, I would be using something else. Ironically, GV made a very bold decision in 2015 giving a 2 year roadmap for Edius, which in fairness they have kept on track.

 

So for me AP is great but not yet for my work.

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R C-R,

 

I find very hard to understand the logic of that statement. One thing is asking for features and I agree, considered all the different jobs and all the personal preferences, it is impossible to please everyone. But saying that not everyone wants to have a stable program is really beyond my logic. I never met a professional who would be OK on sacrificing stability, it really does-not-make-any-sense.

What I said was that not everybody is equally interested in stability vs. feature improvements. That is not the same thing as saying not everyone wants a stable app. But it is pretty obvious from various posts that the Windows version is stable for some but not all users.

 

There are several possible reasons for that (including I suppose whatever you mean by "commercial reason") but the point here is for Windows users not experiencing stability issues, feature improvements are what they usually say they want the developers focus on.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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What I said was that not everybody is equally interested in stability vs. feature improvements. That is not the same thing as saying not everyone wants a stable app. But it is pretty obvious from various posts that the Windows version is stable for some but not all users.

 

There are several possible reasons for that (including I suppose whatever you mean by "commercial reason") but the point here is for Windows users not experiencing stability issues, feature improvements are what they usually say they want the developers focus on.

 

True, you didn't say everybody, my bad.

 

If the Windows version is stable for some it is not for others, so that becomes a problem and doesn't take a scientist to conclude that stability becomes a priority over feature requests, for the simple reason that, while the former users can keep working as they post their requests, the latter cannot, and any feature request is not even in their dreams as they have a bigger problem to figure out. Also, if it's stable when the workload is little and is not when it becomes intense (as reported by many already), it is also clear that the advanced use has an important impact regarding the stability.

 

But I've found my peace because I better understand what's the overall aim and the marketing. So, all of this becomes kind of secondary and at this point, like I said, I can only, patiently wait.


Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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Just out of sheer curiosity (and not in order to invalidate your findings and arguments), have you ever had the chance to try Affinity Photo on a Mac, Timo? And did you experience any differences with respect to stability and performance? Could some of the issues you mentioned have to do with the fact that Windows has become such a large and diverse platform? 

 

As I said, I am just curious …  :unsure:

Alex

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[A comment from one of the developers]

 

Quoted in this thread is that AP is 90% there.  Applying standard development "science" - the last 10% takes 90% of the time.  Refinement is the hardest part to achieve, and balancing all the tools against the requirements of the majority of users and use cases.  What also might be a refinement to one user, might be a backward step for another.  So, that almost equates (in crude terms) to refining one feature or adding nine new ones - though the way we are developing Affinity can't really be viewed like that.

 

As far as ongoing development - we (developers) are a limited resource, so we have to make a call between refining existing tools and writing tools/features that are missing.  It's a tricky decision.  It's not entirely about marketing, but fulfilling the promise we made to users to reach a target set of features.  Our road map is based on our strategy mixed with filtered requests from users.

 

It is also influenced by other factors (the release of the iPad Pro being one example, or the current trend away from desktop units).  There are both short term and long term strategies under consideration.  We want to make a product that will last, and that requires an income stream.  So, we need to keep pushing forwards at the same time as refining.  Sometimes our strategy is pulled by external influences - we then have a choice to react, or miss the boat - and we don't want someone taking our place as that could affect our long term plans.

 

As far as responding to every thread - that also takes time.  Time away from developing.  In the past two years the volume of posts has increased massively.  At the start we responded to nearly every thread.  That is now becoming too time consuming.  So, as a developer I now mainly respond to threads where my input/advice is really needed, or when handling bugs where I need to take charge.  We of course have other staff on the forum, who contribute and give answers, but depending on the subject sometimes a developer needs to answer - it is those threads where we now dedicate most of our time.

It also doesn't help when threads start running away (like this one) - as it then becomes harder to keep on top of them.


SerifLabs team - Affinity Developer
  • Software engineer  -  Photographer  -  Guitarist  -  Philosopher
  • iMac 27" Retina 5K (Late 2015), 4.0GHz i7, AMD Radeon R9 M395
  • MacBook (Early 2015), 1.3GHz Core M, Intel HD 5300
  • iPad Pro 10.5", 256GB

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The problem is in figuring out why the app is not stable for some users. There are many possible reasons for this, & it is not necessarily true that it will be the same reason for all of them.

 

So far, there isn't much data to draw any conclusions from. Often, it isn't clear which Windows version is installed, how it is configured, or much besides the bare minimum hardware specs like the CPU, GPU, & amount of memory installed (if that). It isn't like for Macs -- a succinct summary like the second line of my sig identifies the hardware & OS version unambiguously. There is no need to guess about which motherboard I have, how the BIOS is configured, if I am overclocking anything, what drivers I am using, or anything like that. It is immediately obvious that it is not a DIY computer I built using parts from various vendors & that it has exactly the same cooling system, ports, busses, & system architecture as every other 27 inch iMac "Late 2012" model on the planet.

 

Obviously, PC's are not like that. Thousands of PC's can have the same basic hardware specs yet be sufficiently different that there is no way to know if or to what extent those differences might contribute to stability issues with Affinity Photo, even if no other app has the same issues

 

It would greatly simplify things for everybody if that was not true, but unfortunately almost any app can perform sequences of operations that no other app performs, or performs so rarely that most users would never trigger them, & it is quite possible that this could expose an obscure bug that only affects a relatively small number of systems configured in a specific way.

 

So, as I have suggested in several other topics, it would benefit all concerned if those having stability issues (& those who are not) would take the time to go into more detail about their systems, particularly if they are not 'out-of-the-box stock' branded models from one of the major PC vendors.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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