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[DAM] Affinity Lightroom Killer Request

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As Adobe has decided to make the import screen in Lightroom suitable for Instagram users, I have concerns wether Lightroom should be replaced in the future. Adobe makes this concerns even bigger by publishing buggy apps too early which ruin lives of professionals. 


Last year, Serif came out with this Affinity-suite and I have high hopes that they will release a Lightroom alternative. I am serious about that, since Capture One, well, does not work for me. 

But if you do, make sure that people can transfer 100k photos with any adjustments non-destructively. 


I don't know if you have plans for this, or if you have resources for this. But if you have, well, I would be the first to buy.


Adobe is going for Instagram users with all their iOS-photoshop-mix-fix crap, which is not what professionals want. I know that one day, I will enjoy Affinity Designer on my iPad without compromises.

And I hope you guys could rescue the professional photography business. 


I know this post has not the right spot in the forum, since everything is about Designer or Photo. But I just want to post this to see wether this could be the future of photography. 


Any name suggestions for a Lightroom alternative?

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Hikusai- no joke!


I just visited a Lighrioom course and told the other people there about awesome AP.

And then Inread this post and just had to freak out and tell everyone that you'll release a DAM in 2016 *_*


So great :)


I'll add some things I "learned" from the course and which I would consider to be very important.


First off not every RAW format is garanteed to be supported till the end of the earth so would it be possible to use DNG as an format to convert the raw files to? They said it would be an open standard from Adobe. I hope it really is that open!

That's important because DAM is not only about short terms but very important for long iterations.


For example the consistent UI of Lightroom over all past versions was pointed out because it is almost completely the same as in V1. That's not important to me so much but to many others ....

So in a DAM consistence is very important!


And something that'll be easy to improve:

The diashow and book options in Lightroom are very poor, I'd would be possible to just drop these things! (Publisher could probably do the book and web stuff anyway!)



Last I want to add that there are some color sliders controlling luminance etc very detailed and they would still be awesome in AP, I'll post a picture of then when I'm home.



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We are going to make a professional Affinity DAM application - stay tuned in 2016 for more information ;)





:) YES!  :huh: You're not pulling my leg are you?  :o I can't believe it!  ^_^ I sure hope you're not pulling my leg.  :D This is fantastic!  :wub: I love these Affinity guys!  :rolleyes: Is it 2016 soon?

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I don´t want to sound too negative, just would like to have said something about a DAM too: as Affinity Photo aims to be a serious Photoshop - not a Lightroom, Aperture or whatever else - contender, I sure hope that development concentrates in line with that! In other words, please stay away from anything library / catalog related, logic should favour something like a Bridge look-alike!


While at it, if I may insist on that as well, set high priority to something like ACR, that is, save the initial processing from RAW, preferably in some very small footprint sidecar file (XMP or give it whatever name). This seems already on the todo list, but I´m not sure in what form this is meant to be.

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The DAM would be a separate program so AP will be untouched from any library stuff.


And how should a DAM work without a catalog?

The thing is that the catalog is easily accessible and even Lightroom has an intact folder structure for the pictures in the background (not like Apple Photos mess).


And for edits on RAW files - I think they would not use an afphoto file for each conversion so they´ll use an sort of sidecar thing for sure.....



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So far, I thought about it in the context of Affinity Photo only; that aside, I don´t think that a different application would be rolled out next year already, that´s meant for Publisher. Wonders still exist though, I don´t really know.


However, I don´t understand Digital Asset Management (DAM) as implying the need for a catalog / library to store everything: ´cataloguing´ is not the same as a catalog, IMO, but if it must, any form of file management can well be it. For simplicity sake, I´m taking it as discussed in Wikipedia. A Catalog (as in Lightroom) or a Library (as in Aperture) is not a requirement for a DAM as such, thankfully.


I know what I´m wishing for I think, I have Aperture since release 2 and Lightroom up to 4.4; the latter merely because it took Apple over a year to bring support for my Fujifilm X-Pro1. I started hating anything alike when my (RAW) snapshots exceeded 25K with all their edits hidden in the Catalog / Library. So I stopped using both because I finally felt confident enough with doing everything with Photoshop CS6; a long and steep learning curve for me. I am a fond regular user of all NIK components (except HDR) and occasionally also of ON1´s Photo Suite 9.5. Not missing the Catalog / Library files a single bit ever since!

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And how should a DAM work without a catalog?



However, I don´t understand Digital Asset Management (DAM) as implying the need for a catalog / library to store everything: ´cataloguing´ is not the same as a catalog, IMO, but if it must, any form of file management can well be it. For simplicity sake, I´m taking it as discussed in Wikipedia. A Catalog (as in Lightroom) or a Library (as in Aperture) is not a requirement for a DAM as such, thankfully.


Not missing the Catalog / Library files a single bit ever since!



+1. I'd say there are two schools of thought on the library/catalog subject. Some people like having their assets imported and stored in the app. Some people would prefer the app simply read your folder structure, with no import, like Bridge (or Lyn) does, so storage is not proprietary.


I have become a person who prefers to take advantage of the OS's Finder and folder structure than use a proprietary storage. Here's why: over the years I have had many, many apps that held my content in its own proprietary format. That's fine, but only if the content is still mirrored on your hard drive. Unfortunately some didn't maintain the assets outside of the app itself. Some of these apps have since gone out of business / apps no longer work with OS. Some were difficult to sync both ways with what was already imported in them versus what was in your actual folders, so you may have new stuff in the app but not in your folders, or forget to sync, etc. Some import-type apps are just convoluted and you have to be very careful NOT to accidentally delete your original photo/asset because it will also delete it from your hard drive. Plus, some were only valid back then because at the time, they provided a feature that the OS didn't have, which is likely redundant now. So to me, they were just short-term solutions, and were risky and problematic in the long run.


I used to use a photo asset app which was great for display, but unfortunately it stored the data plus has now become extinct. I lost all that data and had to painfully re-assemble what I could salvage, and some of it is just gone. But what I did salvage is now in folders. 


I'm finding these days that I can replace those apps via Apple's OS, which includes doing my organization in Finder using folder structure (which I did before anyway), and not via an app...because Finder's way will always work and be compatible in future OS upgrades. So an asets app based on that principle is a good thing by working in conjunction with Finder, not trying to replace it.


For a little example, I used to use a proprietary app to organize my document types, which were then dependent upon that app. Now, I am taking advantage of Tags, so I tag the documents accordingly, and put the tag labels in my sidebar. I also had an app that was good for organizing my apps, for those little apps I'd forget I had that did such and such. I've now tagged them too. Now if I want to look at x, y or z, or a category, or whatever, I just press the tag in the sidebar and up comes all the stuff that used to depend on an app to do. It's really a breeze and it's future-proof. And by tagging my apps by category, it makes a quick launcher too. Not to veer from the DAM subject but this is just an example of using the power of the OS in conjunction with an app, which is what I'd prefer the new DAM to be.

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"We are going to make a professional Affinity DAM application - stay tuned in 2016 for more information  ;)" sounds pretty much like a separate application 


I don´t care about the catalog at all. I´d like to make some sort of smart previews for my macbook to save some storage and use DNG and I´d like to scale down RAWs (sort of Nikons medium RAW) when converting them to DNG. And it should be fast and have batch processing (synching of adjustments/ metadata) and some basic adjustments as Lightroom. And Tethering. And a smart folder and standard folder system along with virtual copies. But the devs know how great software is like anyway so....



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Just like Bridge is a separate application (but only available as part of the whole PS suite) and the import from camera module in it is a separate application as well (yes, you can launch it on its own, standalone)?  :)  


You probably already guessed, ´basic adjustments as in Lightroom´ is not where I start to object - Catalog / Library is for starters - but I will extend my objections to it of course, in fact to anything related to processing files indeed. AP is simply not positioned as Lightroom contender and I never read Affinity had stated so anywhere either, so far.

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Sure. Just like I don´t see it as a truly separate application, more as some kind of Bridge but in the context of AP, hopefully; maybe I should better say, not as a separate purchase. If it goes that way though, as long as it comes as a Bridge clone or close look-alike, I won´t mind paying for it either. Just not if it´s some Lightroom replacement, my bad luck in that case, I shall pass.


... Now, I am taking advantage of Tags, so I tag the documents accordingly, and put the tag labels in my sidebar. ...


Funny that, I recently did the same, but not in a very deep and well thought variety either, just four: Processed, B&W, Smart Object and RAW. The first three because I cannot see it from their file name if I don´t put it in there as part of it, the latter because it nicely tags all RAW formats whatever a camera brand´s preferred extension. All photo related as you see, I have enough that way I think.


Also an anecdote coming with it. Installing them was rather surprisingly quick. My Time Machine backup is usually only switched on when I know there is something ´real´ to do, after importing a bunch of new pictures (and culling!) for instance. So when finished with that and after checking for any new updates, I switched it on and it (almost) immediately started backing up, eating up almost 550GB, at that point in time also about the size of all image files on my external Photo HD!  :lol:

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Just adding my vote for a serious alternative to Lightroom. I have gotten tired of Adobe over the years - would love to see a Lightroom killer. Needs to integrate into Affinity Photo, and would need a serious import tool so all my keywords etc don't get lost... go for it Affinity! we are right behind you.

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  • 5 weeks later...

     I have been using LR since ver. 1,  and I own LR 5.0 now. I purchased every release...until Adobe went to a subscription only basis.  Since that news,  I've purchased everything Serif has produced for the Mac.  (Many, many years ago,  when I used a Windows PC,  I became familiar with Serif).  


     Adobe has lost all of my business (I also own Adobe Design Premium 5.5),  as has AutoDesk,  which followed Adobe's lead.  Due to this,  I was very happy to hear about Serif's Affinity software,  which I became aware of after I started looking for replacements.  


     The DAM news is especially good to hear.  I'm very comfortable with the way LR evolved,  and I hope Affinity's DAM will be just as user friendly,  because I'm looking for a long term replacement.  That said,  I would like it to be an easy transition,  i.e.,  I don't want to loose all the work I've put into my files in LR.  I just don't know how they will be able to bridge our libraries from LR into Affinities...if they go with the same kind of arrangement.


     In the mean time,  I'll keep using what I have purchased from Adobe and Autodesk,  until I get more familiar with Affinity.

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There is definitely a market for this. Especially now that Aperture is not going to be receving any future updates. My wife is  a pro photographer and I just keep pulling my hair out with Aperture. It's a memory hog and is frankly a huge disappointment. I'm sure there's people who love it.


Lightroom - well it's Adobe and I'm tryign to relenquish all support for them as I don't like their agressive pricing model. They wouldn't even let me transfer the license from my PC to Mac a few years back.


Storage is a HUGE issue - Any pro photographer will confirm this, so there needs to be a good way of clearing cache, thumbnails, backups etc as they just blow out the hard drive and backup drives!


Do you know when in 2016 ?? My wife just bought Phase One, shame I just stumbled across this post. If your DAM is good I'm sure we'll try it at the least.


Good luck.

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