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1 hour ago, fde101 said:

I wonder sometimes if a feature that would allow a large number of footnotes to be balanced across pages before/after the one the notes are from would be appropriate in some cases.  If you have a tiny number (or no) footnotes on pages 15 and 17 but there are a large number on page 16, then some of the footnotes from 16 would be relocated to page 15 and some to page 17 to help balance them out a bit better...

 

38 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

But the reader expects to find them on the page where they're referenced. You can't simply move them to a different page.

I agree with Walt on this, however... on a very very rare occasion I have seen footnotes spill over to the next facing page where at the bottom of the first page of the two it was stated that the footnotes continued on that next facing page. I've never seen footnotes pushed back to the preceding page or having to turn a page to continue with the footnotes. In case it is not possible to continue on the next facing page then the body text will have to be redistributed to make the footnotes fit. Otherwise endnotes should be used in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

But the reader expects to find them on the page where they're referenced. You can't simply move them to a different page.

I can think of only one case where I would consider it reasonable for footnotes to be seen on anything other than the page they are referenced on: two facing pages, which are complete and do not run over any other pages. I've seen that sort of thing with drawings, typically an A3 horizontal page, with numbered notes arranged in short columns from the left of the page. I'm guessing those pages weren't laid out in a APub type app anyway, almost certainly something like AD. But they did have numbered references like footnotes.

But for text documents I would want footnotes on the same page.

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18 hours ago, fde101 said:

Pseudorandom likely bad idea of the day:

I wonder sometimes if a feature that would allow a large number of footnotes to be balanced across pages before/after the one the notes are from would be appropriate in some cases.  If you have a tiny number (or no) footnotes on pages 15 and 17 but there are a large number on page 16, then some of the footnotes from 16 would be relocated to page 15 and some to page 17 to help balance them out a bit better...

 

18 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

But the reader expects to find them on the page where they're referenced. You can't simply move them to a different page.

I have never seen a note go to an earlier page, always later.

I have seen Footnotes from Page 17 start on Page 18 or 19  due to the fact that all of page 18 and most of 19 have the notes from page 17 on them. The most extreme examples that I recall are from Hannah Arendt's excellent "The Origins of Totalitarianism"

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Affinity Designer 2.0.0 | Affinity Photo 2.0.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.0.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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53 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I have never seen a note go to an earlier page, always later.

I agree that if a footnote started on an earlier page, this would be confusing for all readers who consulted footnotes.  They would probably think that the corresponding footnote reference number had somehow been missed out from the main body of the text of that page when it was printed.

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it's completely frustrating in terms of the delay in reaching the version two milestone.  it is however understandable that Photo gets the most development as that would be the application used most by the masses, but Designer as well as Publisher both need a lot of TLC as the former lacks many features which the very free Inkscape offers at no immediate cost.

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18 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I have never seen a note go to an earlier page.

If this happens, it is a bug. In real life, a call is always chronologically situated before what it prompts! It is the same with a note call that calls a note.

A note always responds to a note call in the body of the text. When it is not an endnote (see above), the note call must always be on the same page.

However, both the footnote and the footnote are subject to layout constraints. The footnote has historically been the last to arrive, partly because it is technically the most complicated to produce.

The problem arises when the footnote call is towards the bottom of the page.

The note call in neat typography follows the rules of the widow¹ (the last line of a paragraph appearing isolated at the top of a page) and the orphan¹ (first line of a paragraph appearing isolated at the bottom of a page). The simple fact of writing the note call towards the end of the line sometimes causes it to move to the next line. When the callout is on the penultimate line of the page, it may therefore be on the last line. If it is in the last line of the page, it can be switched to the first line of the next page.

The footnote, on the other hand, takes up some of the space allocated to the main text on the page. It consists of a blank, then a line, then a blank, then at least one line of text. It can therefore also cause the note call to pass to the next page. in thise case, this is obviously a bug.

There are 2 solutions:

1. The software², when well designed, then shortens the initial text frame so that both the note call and the footnote move to the next page.

2. Or the DTP composer manually moves the footnote call to another place in the text that is less problematic.

¹ The traditional names of widows and orphans reflect a certain conception of existence from the origins of printing. For our old typographers, the paragraph represented life, and the lines of the paragraph represented stages of life. When a person is alone at the beginning of his life, he is necessarily a child who has lost his parents. When a person is alone at the end of his or her life, it is necessarily a woman because women live longer than men.

² In practice, all software with footnotes fortunately handles them correctly.

6 cœurs, 12 processus Windows 11 pro   4K DirectX 12 Affinity Desktop Publisher, Affinity Desktop Designer, Affinity Desktop Photo.

Mais je vous le demande, peut-on imaginer une police sans sérifs ?

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On 4/30/2022 at 10:19 PM, Arte said:

In case only footnotes or only endotes can be implemented upon release, then I would prefer endnotes to be implemented first. Others may prefer footnotes to be implemented first in that case, so maybe a poll might be useful in that case.

I disagree, for the simple reason that for us it is far easier to implement endnotes manually (like normal text) than footnotes (where you need to create specific text boxes and adjust the text).

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Sidetracking the thread for a moment. I'm currently working to a new edition of a set of notes of an author on another one. The original annotated text contains footnotes from the main author. The edited version also contains the notes of the editor, which sometimes include notes to the notes!

Since I'm also editing the edition, I sometimes need a few notes to the annotated notes…

Paolo

 

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Paolo
This is uncommon but not unprecedented when older publications are revised for republication.

If there aren't too many additional notes, you could perhaps trying indicating them with other symbols, such as a single dagger, double dagger, asterisk, etc.

Trevor

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry for not reading 45 pages of forum. I just wanted to know whether Affinity Publisher supports footnotes/endnotes or not. I do not want to tell about my habits, likes or dislikes. I want a piece of software that can be used for publishing books, also scientific articles and the standards in my country prefer the footnotes style (but that is the case also in the Chicago style). 

Can someone tell me if Affinity Publisher can do it in some sort of organized way or is it necessary to do it manually? Is it possible to paste the DOC file with footnotes and the footnotes will appear accordingly?  

Thank you

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40 minutes ago, JohnJohn12 said:

Can someone tell me if Affinity Publisher can do it in some sort of organized way or is it necessary to do it manually? Is it possible to paste the DOC file with footnotes and the footnotes will appear accordingly?

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums.

It must all be handled manually, and (I think) the notes will be lost entirely when you import a .docx file into Publisher.

If it were possible automatically at this point, this thread would have died a long time ago.

-- Walt

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44 minutes ago, JohnJohn12 said:

Sorry for not reading 45 pages of forum. I just wanted to know whether Affinity Publisher supports footnotes/endnotes or not. I do not want to tell about my habits, likes or dislikes. I want a piece of software that can be used for publishing books, also scientific articles and the standards in my country prefer the footnotes style (but that is the case also in the Chicago style). 

Can someone tell me if Affinity Publisher can do it in some sort of organized way or is it necessary to do it manually? Is it possible to paste the DOC file with footnotes and the footnotes will appear accordingly?  

Thank you

As yet there is no support for footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes or table notes.  It seems to be taking forever!  I certainly hope they are included in version 2 whenever that may be.

 

 

Steve

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Laptop: I5 (6th Gen), 8GB Ram, 128GB nvme, Intel 520 Graphics, Colour calibrated screen(Courtesy of X-Rite Hardware) - Running MacOS Monterey.

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@walt.farrellis correct that the notes cannot be ported over with the Word document - neither are the footnote identifier numbers. However, clicking on any footnote and pressing Ctrl-A (All) will copy all the footnotes in one go.

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Hello, @JohnJohn12,

You’ll find that Walt Farrell, Cyberlizard and Last Chance are three real living encyclopaedias.
I’ll just add one comment. The latest posts from the Affinity team suggested in one post in this thread that the footnotes feature was in high demand, and in another that they hoped there would be lots of functionality.

 

6 cœurs, 12 processus Windows 11 pro   4K DirectX 12 Affinity Desktop Publisher, Affinity Desktop Designer, Affinity Desktop Photo.

Mais je vous le demande, peut-on imaginer une police sans sérifs ?

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Hello to you all, 

Thank you for the replies.

I am very happy with APhoto, but e.g. as for now my thesis has nearly 700 footnotes (hah, try Ctrl+A on that), and I look forward to publish similar texts. It would be just too bad if APublisher did not support ANY footnote/endnote implementation. I mean having a tool to edit and create printed materials AND books, without the annual subscription... or maybe it is asking for too much. 

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@JohnJohn12For my "Magnificent Octopus" I have several thousand footnotes (535,000 words and counting). If you treat them as endnotes, then they can be ported over in one go. The only problem, as said previously, is that APub does not port over the footnote numbers embedded in the text.

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@JohnJohn12,

This can be done more or less well by hand. 

Endnotes (e.g. the book or chapter) can be a convenient way to publish notes very quickly.

Footnotes to a zone (e.g. a page) require the creation of a text frame (yellow) which is either superimposed on the bottom text frame of the normal body of the text (green) and the text is pushed out. You can also build a footnote area for footnotes (yellow) just below the normal text frame (green).

footnote.png.14e7984c9f3d3155a6be7ce7f16c5f1b.png

6 cœurs, 12 processus Windows 11 pro   4K DirectX 12 Affinity Desktop Publisher, Affinity Desktop Designer, Affinity Desktop Photo.

Mais je vous le demande, peut-on imaginer une police sans sérifs ?

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@JohnJohn12 If you're on a Mac, I can heartily recommend Mellel for thesis writing. Affordable, rock solid, works wonderfully with Bookends (and, I believe, Endnotes). I did my PhD thesis in it. Bit of a learning curve, but well worth the effort until Affinity offers a viable alternative.

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On 5/23/2022 at 9:10 AM, pfbt said:

@JohnJohn12 If you're on a Mac, I can heartily recommend Mellel for thesis writing. Affordable, rock solid, works wonderfully with Bookends (and, I believe, Endnotes). I did my PhD thesis in it. Bit of a learning curve, but well worth the effort until Affinity offers a viable alternative.

Mellel is a great word processor for this type of thing, but is not a page layout app.  Right now to avoid the subscription model and get footnote/endnote support in a layout app you are basically looking at QuarkXPress or possibly one of a few lesser-known or overall less capable products.  Most of the less expensive products I have looked at do not support them.

Scribus is apparently adding them but they are not in a stable release yet.

There is also LaTeX, of course - a bit different to work with but it can produce excellent results once you wrap your head around it.

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12 minutes ago, Pedrober said:

QXP support for footnotes is acceptable but not very good. See the QXP facebook threads.

Regardless, if you don't want to pay the Adobe tax, there are few other options right now.

Personally if i had to create a formal or even semi-formal document such as a thesis which was long enough to have even 200 footnotes I wouldn't consider using anything other than LaTeX, but I know that way of working is not for everyone.

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1 hour ago, fde101 said:

Mellel is a great word processor for this type of thing, but is not a page layout app.  Right now to avoid the subscription model and get footnote/endnote support in a layout app you are basically looking at QuarkXPress or possibly one of a few lesser-known or overall less capable products.  Most of the less expensive products I have looked at do not support them.

Scribus is apparently adding them but they are not in a stable release yet.

There is also LaTeX, of course - a bit different to work with but it can produce excellent results once you wrap your head around it.

That's true in principle. However, I had a number of diagrams in my thesis and was happy that I could place them where I wanted. Can also do text wrap around, etc. Yes, it's not as flexible as Aff. Pub. where I can put the diagram virtually anywhere and pin it (or put it inline), but I was more than happy with the layout and placing of text. It's brilliant with headings and table of content (although there is one quirky bit with that). If I had to do another thesis, Mellel would be my first choice ... until Aff. Pub. gets footnotes, endnotes and proper cross-referencing (which Mellel is stunning at).  The integration with Bookends is marvellous.

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5 hours ago, fde101 said:

I wouldn't consider using anything other than LaTeX

I'm recurrently tempted by LaTeX. But then, every book I see made with it smells of school textbook. So, I end up declining.

Paolo

 

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