WHY is AD2 changing the orientation of my presets????

[loukash]

5 minutes ago, edee said:

BUT NOW I have to remember to click landscape every time I want to use that ONE preset. It's No Longer Preset!! If it were Preset it would Always be 1366x768 landscape.

That's exactly the problem.

Take the Business Card preset.
How often do you layout a business card in portrait mode? (Me? Never in the past 35 years.)
So whenever I'd want to start with a business card preset, I have to remember to set it to landscape mode first because usually i'd work in A4 or A5 portrait mode.

Heck, even in my few weeks of just toying with v2 – I still do my work in v1 on El Capitan – at least 25 % of my "new documents" were in the wrong orientation mode because I'd expected the preset to be in the orientation I set it originally. (Hence now I'm mostly using quadratic presets like 896×896 px for most of my toyings and tests…)

This is a workflow disruption, serving no immediate benefit.

[dehskins]

At the very top of the list of presets you can set it to any orientation you choose. If you choose portrait all the presets show as portrait and the same for landscape. I couldn't initially see where this button was and was also very frustrated by what looked like a re orienting of my presets. Once I chose my preference as portrait all was fine again.

[R C-R]

If it isn't totally clear, @dehskins is referring to this pair of buttons:

BTW, like others have mentioned, it is annoying that it affects the orientation of all presets, so there is no way to set certain ones to landscape & others to portrait.

EDIT: as a very awkward & lame workaround, it is possible to create templates that have the orientation baked in & use those instead of presets, but it would be far better if each preset included its own orientation.

[GarryP]

9 hours ago, R C-R said:

but it would be far better if each preset included its own orientation.

If the presets included the orientation we would need (or could have) two presets for each page set-up, one for portrait and one for landscape.
So, in certain cases, we could have, for example:

• A4 Print Portrait;
• A4 Print Landscape;
• A4 Press Ready Portrait;
• A4 Press Ready Landscape;
• A4 Digital Portrait;
• A4 Digital Landscape;
• etc.

That might make the process of choosing a page size more awkward than people just knowing about, and remembering, to set the orientation as they need it on a case-by-case basis.

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

That might make the process of choosing a page size more awkward than people just knowing about, and remembering, to set the orientation as they need it on a case-by-case basis

Apparently a number of users have been doing just that in V1, and like that approach better than the new one. They are the ones who are primarily being confused by the new arrangement, I think.

[GarryP]

‘Horses for courses’ I suppose.

Personally I like the fact that the orientation isn’t ‘baked in’ to the presets so I don’t have to keep multiple presets for the same page size but I can understand why others might like to have that.

I don’t know of a ‘one size fits all’ approach.

[Hangman]

I have to agree with @loukash, orientation should, in my humble option, most definitely form a part of the preset, for the reasons already mentioned and mimic V1 behaviour...

So, in V2 why not just use Templates which you can organise in any way you like, either by orientation, by category or whatever works for your requirements...

If creating new artwork based on the same layout you also have the option of holding the Alt key when selecting the File menu giving you New from Last Preset.

[user_0815]

Initially I was wondering what was going on as well. It took me a few seconds to recognise the difference, and then I immediately liked it. 

Personally I do like the new way better, I find it more organised and easier to use.

[Old Bruce]

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

Personally I like the fact that the orientation isn’t ‘baked in’ to the presets so I don’t have to keep multiple presets for the same page size but I can understand why others might like to have that.

It was never baked in. We could change each preset to either Landscape or Portrait. Now with version 2 we cannot have a permanent Landscape orientated preset.

Here is a thought experiment. Perhaps someone works with a one cm margin for Landscape oriented  work and a two cm margin for Portrait oriented work. In version one this would require two Presets, but they would always be in the proper, correct, desired orientation. Now with the new and less useful/friendly Universal orientation system, two Presets are still required because of the different margin requirements. But the Universal orientation buttons must be consulted and perhaps changed before making a new document.

The new system is less useful, it actually slows thing down for some people's working method. It was a bad decision and needs to be revoked as soon as possible.

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

It was a bad decision and needs to be revoked as soon as possible.

If for no other reason than for many users a lot of presets have a 'natural' orientation, like for business cards or for form letters (stationery) & such, & rarely if ever would they use the other orientation. It just slows things down unnecessarily to have to make sure the infrequently used orientation is not selected because it was used for some other document.

Edited February 26, 2023 by R C-R
fixed misspelling (Thanks Alfred)!

[thomaso]

47 minutes ago, Red Sands said:

As James Cameron says,

"It's not that they would not have done user testing"

… they just seem to understand "by design" as "useful by design"

I'd still miss an aspect ratio lock in the New… dialog window!
… which, ironically, does exist only after the document has been created 

[edee]

If it would just Not decide for itself what is Landscape and what is Portrait it would work. 
I would be Happy to leave it on Portrait all the time and just set each preset to the size I want. But v2 decides if it's portrait or landscape and if you have it set to Portrait it doesn't show the landscape presets. It's like a freaking iCrap phone. Serif decided it is going to think for us. 

I don't understand why they won't just let me leave it on Portrait all the time and create a preset that is 800 wide and 100 tall.
I Know that's not portrait, but I wouldn't have to remember to click the stupid Portrait or Landscape button every time I started a project - because it would be Preset! 

Unfortunately, if you don't like it, complaining on the forum isn't going to get us anywhere. We have to write them and complain.
It's like dealing with politicians, if you want to be heard you have to fill their inbox. 

 

 

[Hangman]

37 minutes ago, edee said:

If it would just Not decide for itself what is Landscape and what is Portrait it would work. 
I would be Happy to leave it on Portrait all the time and just set each preset to the size I want.

V2 (on macOS at least) remembers the last preset used when creating a New Document and retains whether you last had landscape or portriat set so leaving it on portrait shouldn't be an issue... If you create a preset that is 800 wide x 100 tall and save it as a preset, next time you launch the software, that will be the default preset... if you're chopping and changing between landscape and portrait documents, again the last setting you set will be the default when you launch the software next time...

[R C-R]

21 minutes ago, Hangman said:

V2 (on macOS at least) remembers the last preset used when creating a New Document and retains whether you last had landscape or portriat set so leaving it on portrait shouldn't be an issue...

It is an issue if you only or regularly use landscape with certain presets but the last used preset was one that defaulted to portrait.

The point here is fairly simple: many of us want a preset to include the orientation so we do not have to worry about checking for that before we select a preset to create a new document. IOW, it should take just one click to use the preset, not one to choose the preset & another to toggle to the other orientation if it is not the desired one.

[GRAFKOM]

On 2/26/2023 at 5:42 PM, Old Bruce said:

The new system is less useful, it actually slows thing down for some people's working method. It was a bad decision and needs to be revoked as soon as possible.

I personally think so too.
Specifically in the presets, I call A4 portrait or A4 landscape, or Laser or business card landscape - to keep it that way.
For example, I have a horizontal laser plotter, the working area is 66 x 49cm. It will always be horizontal, it will never change. I just set up such a preset with a horizontal layout, and if earlier I chose a vertical A4 sheet, a moment later when opening a new document with the Laser preset, the layout of the new page is vertical. But how? After all, I specifically created a new preset with a horizontal layout!
Please, Serif, explain to me a little worm what the greater purpose is behind such ideas.
I have my own advertising company. I create quite a lot of different projects during the day. These are not works based solely on an A4 sheet.
These are A3, A2, A0 poster designs, A5, A6, DL leaflets, laser cutting 66x49cm, sign prints on a 160cm wide solvent plotter, foil cutting on a 120cm wide cutting plotter, etc. In these projects, page orientation is very important.
There are probably presets after that that you can speed up the work. This was in Affinity 1.
But the Affinity 2 version has completely ruined it.
I'd really appreciate it if someone from Serif could explain why it's better for us to have the arrangement we have now.

[Hangman]

5 minutes ago, R C-R said:

The point here is fairly simple: many of us want a preset to include the orientation so we do not have to worry about checking for that before we select a preset to create a new document. IOW, it should take just one click to use the preset, not one to choose the preset & another to toggle to the other orientation if it is not the desired one.

Hence my earlier suggestion of using templates which for those who find having to choose between landscape and portrait a bind allows you to create as many effective presets as you want with a fixed orientation.

Templates would benefit from an overhaul, it would, for example, be great if you could set any of the options in the New Document dialogue window to be the default, e.g., New, Recents, Templates etc., and it would also be great if you could drag and drop to reorder templates and template categories but as an alternative solution for those unhappy with how this currently works I think it's a very practical solution, albeit it currently involves a second mouse click to select templates in the first place which some may find onerous...

[Old Bruce]

10 minutes ago, GRAFKOM said:

I'd really appreciate it if someone from Serif could explain why it's better for us to have the arrangement we have now.

As would I.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Hence my earlier suggestion of using templates which for those who find having to choose between landscape and portrait a bind allows you to create as many effective presets as you want with a fixed orientation.

That's just a workaround for the ill advised & never requested design decision of not including orientation info in each preset. Besides it potentially means creating & storing what could be a lot of aftemplate files, using a lot of file space unnecessarily, & complicating what should be a very simple one click & go operation.

[Hangman]

I guess everyone has their own way of working and their own preferences on what works best for them and while I do think the 1.7.3 behaviour, where orientation was baked into the preset was a sensible one and the portrait landscape orientation options in v2 can be a little frustrating at times at the end of the day, it's a single mouse click vs a list of presets twice as long to scroll through... you're never going to please all the people all the time, what works for one person won't work for another so I don't think you will ever have the perfect solution that satisfies everybody...

[R C-R]

15 minutes ago, N.P.M. said:

I don't  use the startup menu or presets
{....}
... they're just a hassle.

The document presets were less of a hassle in V1, in large part because they included orientation info.

[GRAFKOM]

32 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Hence my earlier suggestion of using templates which for those who find having to choose between landscape and portrait a bind allows you to create as many effective presets as you want with a fixed orientation.

Of course, I use templates, but I have them properly prepared for the presentation of e.g. business cards and other layouts, but most often when creating a new document, I need a clean surface with a predetermined margin and possibly a bleed.
That's what presets and quick access to them are for  (as in the picture).
At least that was the case with Affinity 1.

[Pšenda]

On 2/26/2023 at 5:42 PM, Old Bruce said:

The new system is less useful, it actually slows thing down for some people's working method. It was a bad decision and needs to be revoked as soon as possible.

The new system is far more suitable for many users/situations and formally more correct, because it is simply not correct to define two completely identical documents with completely identical parameters just for the sake of orientation. So it is not a bad decision (on the contrary) that does not need to be revoked, just it is only sufficient to supplement it with the possibility of keeping orientation as it was proposed a long time ago. 

On 12/12/2022 at 11:55 AM, Pšenda said:

Therefore, it would be appropriate for the user to be able to select/choose if the preset is created without an orientation definition, or if it is specific to only one type of orientation.

[R C-R]

9 minutes ago, Hangman said:

... the portrait landscape orientation options in v2 can be a little frustrating at times at the end of the day, it's a single mouse click vs a list of presets twice as long to scroll through...

Why must the list of presets be twice as long? There is no reason to create a second preset with the opposite orientation if it is never going to be used.

EDIT: If it is not obvious, I am asking specifically about the "My Presets" category in the New Document window.I would prefer that this category be 'sticky' so I never had to scroll through the other categories to get to it. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by R C-R

[GRAFKOM]

We can keep debating and Serif will do whatever he wants.

[R C-R]

11 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

The new system is far more suitable for many users/situations and formally more correct, because it is simply not correct to define two completely identical documents with completely identical parameters just for the sake of orientation.

But the documents created by these presets are not the same if they do not have the same orientation. That's why the new system is not suitable for the workflows of users who just want a preset to create the same kind of document as the preset they created & added to their "My Presets" category.