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1 minute ago, albertkinng said:

I can't explain to you what AI really is, but you did better than me.

With respect to inpainting, there is more to it than just pixel-based analysis. If that was all it required then AP would do as good a job as apps like PS that do use AI techniques. But anyone who has used AP for this much knows it isn't that good.

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13 minutes ago, CM0 said:

I don't think anyone can make that statement with certainty anymore unless you conduct almost your entire business and social life offline.

I am retired so there is no business for me to conduct. My online "social life" is quite limited -- I do not use any of the major social media platforms.

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@CM0 everything is possible, true. But it would never reflect the real usage of particular image, nobody knows how many times image was used worldwide, nobody tracks that - they probably just said so to calm down public. In society that mostly reads headlines there is little chance somebody will actually think about details (not talking about you just in general).

As for the AI - obviously when we are talking about "using AI" we mostly mean here generate picture or part of picture by AI, not some behind the scenes, obscure and involuntary kind of AI. Just like when people talk about using Linux they mean having it installed as system on their machine not some "ACTUALLY you are using Linux, because your toaster and fridge is powered by it not to mention servers you are connecting to when browsing internet" kind of thing :D

I personally could use some quick AI to erase something from the picture or expand it. Its not vital to my work, sometimes client asks me for some banner or other little thing to promote main thing we are working on. I much prefer my time and effort go to main product then promotional materials. So for quick background or something I could use it.

Once again - I really feel like AI tools mostly are done for general public to impress average joe who cant do much on his own. In 3D field I am waiting for years for some good auto-retopo. The closest we got is what ZBrush is offering. And its far from perfect, almost unusable for animation. Impress me there, make AI tool for that. Not some generative nonsense that will make a 3D blob with texture on it and call it a day. Make some AI for beautiful, automatic, straight and not stretched UVs - that will impress me. I will use it every day. Turning head on photo of a doggie... I mean come on. How to use that in production of something significant? Its good to replace  Fiverr $5 jobs, you can generate social media motivational or some virtue signaling thing but it has no use in serious work. Or hell, I dont know, I am 46 now, working all the time in the graphic related industry and I cant think of anything I could use that "oh so powerful generative AI" now. Nothing significant anyways just some annoying stuff that I have to do sometimes and just want it out of my sight as quickly as possible (promotional, social media things). And for that - cool, I'll take it. But its hardly a revolution now.

What is to come? We will see. I will not pretend I know the future - apparently nearly everybody now does :D I'll see where it goes. For now its in the realm of semi-helpful gimmick for me.

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1 hour ago, nezumi said:

But it would never reflect the real usage of particular image, nobody knows how many times image was used worldwide, nobody tracks that - they probably just said so to calm down public.

Adobe can track it because it is their own data, their own model and you are using their platform to create the images. They will likely count a generation as a use.

1 hour ago, nezumi said:

For now its in the realm of semi-helpful gimmick for me.

Yes, this was my position throughout last year and early this year. I found it all completely unusable for any professional work. However, PS has made a big step forward beyond Midjourney. I spent several hours watching what people are doing with it over the weekend. When used for compositing work combining real stock photo and some manipulation you can do some very impressive work that can be far more specific than anything you would get from Midjourney. Furthermore, it seems to be able to mimic any style of your current document even if not trained on it. So you could paint your own creation and it could add to it in a convincing manner.

However, when I say good enough for professional work, I'm still constraining that mostly when used as a complementary tool for blending, photo manipulation etc. It seems to do some excellent work there. Like a super advanced clone, blend and object removal. Nevertheless, for those who do a lot of that type of work, it will likely convert hours into minutes or seconds of work.

Now for other media, like video, as you mention it currently is terrible. However, so were images just over a year ago. I suspect it will be very different a year from now.

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18 minutes ago, CM0 said:

Adobe can track it because it is their own data, their own model and you are using their platform to create the images. They will likely count a generation as a use.

So are you suggesting that users will be charged for each use?

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23 minutes ago, R C-R said:

So are you suggesting that users will be charged for each use?

We don't know yet from where they will source the funds. It could be they just pool the funds from everyone's subscription fee and some portion is moved from there. We don't know if they will charge an extra fee for this service either. They might need to as it is not free or they might have to implement usage limits. It costs them for running the GPU's for the generations.

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43 minutes ago, CM0 said:

We don't know yet from where they will source the funds.

i think that the chances Adobe will just absorb the costs for this is approximately zero.

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8 hours ago, CM0 said:

Adobe can track it because it is their own data, their own model and you are using their platform to create the images. They will likely count a generation as a use.

Since I completely switched to Affinity (and I am not planning to go back in the near future) I dont know how it works. I thought generation is done locally on your machine but for what you say it would suggest its done on Adobe servers? Its always online thing?

 

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7 minutes ago, nezumi said:

Since I completely switched to Affinity (and I am not planning to go back in the near future) I dont know how it works. I thought generation is done locally on your machine but for what you say it would suggest its done on Adobe servers? Its always online thing?

 

Its not done local, there is need a very big database with several models. For Generation you need strong and fast servers.
Midjourney works with Discord where the Bot is working. 
But we will see what the future will bring.
 

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FWIW I have no interest in AI at all from a large scale generative viewpoint. But small scale inpaint / fill / retouch / editing? Absolutely. And sharpening / denoise? Absolutely, 10,000%. I don't want to add significant visual elements with AI, but having some intelligence when 'restoring' previously obscured textures, structures and such would be not only a huge time-saver but a definite improvement over trying to manually regenerate and match them in terms of the end result. Beyond that? I've seen nothing so far that interests me.

But if Serif are truly not interested at all in exploring AI, then IMO that's to their (and our, as users) detriment. Kinda reminds me of back in the '90s when Bill Gates initially thought the Internet was overrated. But one forum remark from one person is hardly an official corporate stance, IMO.

Len
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5 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

But one forum remark from one person is hardly an official corporate stance, IMO.

Serif won't tell you (or the competition) what they are working on.

Look at "Studio Link", no one saw that coming.

To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time.

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2 hours ago, lphilpot said:

But if Serif are truly not interested at all in exploring AI, then IMO that's to their (and our, as users) detriment.

All they have said is the developers are not planning on adding any AI features at present.

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In my experience, I find that I don't require additional features or AI implementations. Instead, I use third-party apps that assist me in accomplishing my design goals. There's no need to criticize Serif for not having the specific features you desire. Personally, I employ four different apps for color management. Ideally, one color management tool would suffice for all designer needs. However, since that isn't the case, I purchased the necessary apps to effectively complete my projects.

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

All they have said is the developers are not planning on adding any AI features at present.

Hence my statement, "But one forum remark from one person is hardly an official corporate stance, IMO."

Len
Affinity Photo 2.x | QCAD 3.x | FastStone | SpyderX Pro | FOSS:  ART darktable  XnView  RawTherapee  GIMP  Inkscape  G'MIC  LibreOffice
Windows 11 on a 16 GB, Ryzen 5700 8-core laptop with a cheesy little embedded AMD GPU

Canon T8i / 850D | Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro | Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM
...vainly looking for landscapes in Nolandscapeland        https://www.flickr.com/photos/14015058@N07/

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11 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

Hence my statement, "But one forum remark from one person is hardly an official corporate stance, IMO."

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. It doesn't say anything one way or another about their interest in exploring AI.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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That point wasn't about AI itself, but Serif's stance on it. I pointed out it's not worth trying to draw long-reaching conclusions based on one person's forum post. IMO YMMV whatever

Len
Affinity Photo 2.x | QCAD 3.x | FastStone | SpyderX Pro | FOSS:  ART darktable  XnView  RawTherapee  GIMP  Inkscape  G'MIC  LibreOffice
Windows 11 on a 16 GB, Ryzen 5700 8-core laptop with a cheesy little embedded AMD GPU

Canon T8i / 850D | Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro | Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM
...vainly looking for landscapes in Nolandscapeland        https://www.flickr.com/photos/14015058@N07/

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I feel like we are standing over the dead body of the horse that used to be that conversation screaming GO BOY!, GO! :D We said everything there was - couple times around.

Not trying to shut this conversation, but is there any other angle we can explore here? Personally I am way more interested in whats the plan for 2.2, what WILL be there. Rather then keep on discussing usefulness of features we know that will not be there anytime soon.

Side note - it always baffles me how quickly people find absolutely necessary to use new stuff. Stuff they didnt knew is coming just few months ago. Some new feature is teased and immediately somebody screams "I NEED THAT!". Really? You NEED something you didnt even knew is coming? Your project - that you are making now - depends on feature that few days ago wasnt existing? :D Thats some amazing planning man. Good thing that feature showed up - you wouldnt be able to finish your project otherwise.

And then you see the project, and you know it would take 10 minutes in Photoshop 4... 🤣

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26 minutes ago, nezumi said:

Side note - it always baffles me how quickly people find absolutely necessary to use new stuff. Stuff they didnt knew is coming just few months ago. Some new feature is teased and immediately somebody screams "I NEED THAT!". Really? You NEED something you didnt even knew is coming?

Not sure why that is surprising. You see demonstration of feature that makes easier work you do everyday. Wouldn't it be more illogical to state I don't need that?

Sometimes a new feature also can make possible something that you had never considered; however, you can immediately imagine how you would put that to use. If a new feature didn't elicit that kind of response in either scenario, then it is probably feature that shouldn't be prioritized.

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The problem with these I have is that these are not the places and not the people from real world. What is the point of picture if then you change everything about it? Everything now will be fake? "Look, me on the top of the Eiffel tower, on the bicycle, wearing Armani suit, drinking coffee!"? Or "check out photo of my grandma - she looked nothing like this but AI improved the quality and blue eyes are looking better on her anyways! And here me with her on one photo - isnt that amazing? She died before I was born!".

I dont know - technically its amazing stuff. You can make a redneck use suit. Very cool for some advertisement stuff. On the other hand now you dont need any skill to confuse the hell out of everybody. Which means all the stupid people have now tool to express their stupid ideas with ease. Before some effort was required which was surely great filter for lazy and unskilled people to polute internet with yet another meme. Now floodgate is open. I doubt that is good in any shape or form. But hey - "progress"...

I guess what I am trying to say - its another razor given to bunch of monkeys. Man will shave with it, but what monkeys will do - I guess we will see on social media soon...

@CM0 Theres significant difference between "I WANT" and "I NEED". Between "I can now do it faster" and "I wouldn not be able to do it before".

Although when I think about it, in many cases AI will made things for people who otherwise wouldn't be able to do at all... So yeah, this might be true. They are still unable to do it themselves but can get it done for them with a single click.

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What was another topic that went on and on for years? Oh, right. Linux something something. How much easier Linux running on a PC is to operate, or some such nonsense. I see they're still trying to claim how easy it is for Linux to run Affinity products. Yes. Of course it is. Grandma and Grandpa have all bought Linux-capable machines and are running all three programs like it was a fresh, invigorating spring breeze. Bwaaaahahahaha.

But I digress. It looks like we have another/more thread(s) with the same idea, this time with AI something something.

2.1 shut down many of the complainers and the complaints. New complaints/complainers have come along, and here we all go again. Good luck, people. Whine away something something.

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