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Cooner

Publisher crashes when typing out ellipses?

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Hi,

I think I may have found a bug -- my first here, if so! :) It seems that, pretty reproducibly for meat least, that if I type three consecutive periods and a space, Publisher completely crashes and shuts down. I can still type an actual ellipses (using option-colon) without a problem, so I'm guessing maybe something is happening when it tries to substitute ellipses for the three periods? (I'm not sure if it's Publisher or macOS handling that at that exact moment.)

Also: It seems that doing this while editing in the middle of a block of text is fine; it's only when typing at the end the text within a textframe it usually happens.

I'm using Publisher 1.7.0.312 on macOS 10.14.4 … I was using a font called CCFaceFront when I first encountered the crash, but it seems to affect any other fonts I've tried as well.

Any more information you need about my system, let me know, thanks :)

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This doesn’t happen here (macOS 10.14.5.) with Publisher 1.7.0.330. Update Publisher to the latest build and try to reproduce the "bug“.

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3 minutes ago, mac_heibu said:

This doesn’t happen here (macOS 10.14.5.) with Publisher 1.7.0.330. Update Publisher to the latest build and try to reproduce the "bug“.

Oh, cool. I don't think I can update to 330 … there's a big post at the top of the section that says 330 has been withdrawn because of another error … but hopefully that means this has been fixed and will be taken care of when they re-release a new update. :) 

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Yes I have read this alert too. But, as I strictly avoid to use Publisher beta for „real life“ design, it doesn’t matter for me. :)

But, as I told you, the issue, which you have reported, doesn’t show up here.

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This should be fixed when you have access to the build we will create to replace build 330


Serif Europe Ltd. - www.serif.com

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7 hours ago, Jon P said:

This should be fixed when you have access to the build we will create to replace build 330

Aaah, great to hear, thanks! I tried searching for ellipses issues on the forum but didn’t find anything so wasn’t sure if you were aware of this. It’s an easy enough work-around for now, glad to hear it’s been taken care of! :)

For the record I’m really liking Publisher so far … been working on a little non-critical document to run it through its paces and see how it works. Very impressed, great work! Looking forward to the final release and, hopefully, an iPad version down the line. :)

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2 minutes ago, Jeremy Bohn said:

As a typography geek, I personally advocate for actual ellipses. :D

Oh, I absolutely do too! I often hit opt-colon, but in the fleeting inspiration of the moment I sometimes get lazy and rely on automatic substitution to replace my three dots with an ellipses. :D 

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No, I cannot agree. Seriously good typographical practice requires ellipses to be three freely spaced dots, which must be done manually, not three fixed dots which is what you get with fixed ellipses glyph.

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On 5/22/2019 at 11:55 PM, Cooner said:

I sometimes get lazy and rely on automatic substitution to replace my three dots with an ellipses

<pedantry>

The word “ellipses” is the plural form for both an ellipse (squashed circle) and an ellipsis (three-dots glyph).

</pedantry>


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer 1.7.0.367 • Affinity Photo 1.7.0.367 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.0.135 • Affinity Designer for iPad 1.7.0.9 • iOS 12.3.1 (iPad Air 2)

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5 hours ago, ABP said:

No, I cannot agree. Seriously good typographical practice requires ellipses to be three freely spaced dots, which must be done manually, not three fixed dots which is what you get with fixed ellipses glyph.

Think what you want, but that's wrong.

"The benefits is that … is much easier on the eyes than ..., it takes up less characters, carries a semantic meaning instead of just being a multiple of dots and it pleases those of us that are typographically inclined." (not my words but sums it up perfectly)

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Actually, Jeremy, you have not given the second example correctly; it should be . . . as I believe you will find recommended in most professional style manuals (though I could be wrong about that because it's ages since I've looked them up). And, as you will see from what I have typed . . . is the easiest of all on the eye. I shall certainly think what I want, sincerely . . . yours, Anthony

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6 hours ago, Alfred said:

<pedantry>

The word “ellipses” is the plural form for both an ellipse (squashed circle) and an ellipsis (three-dots glyph).

</pedantry>

Auugh … I know this, I KNOW this, I don't know why I kept mistyping it through this entire thread … <bangs head against a convenient wall>

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Hey, thanks for the input, everyone! I hadn't launched Publisher in a few days so I didn't see the new update … looks like that fixed the ellipsis problem (again). Thanks, Publisher team!

As for whether a typeset ellipsis or three periods are better, I'll leave that to y'all to hash out. :)

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3 minutes ago, Cooner said:

As for whether a typeset ellipsis or three periods are better, I'll leave that to y'all to hash out. :)

Not so quick, I have no dog in that fight but you allowed it to start by asking a question and therefore should have to stay to the bitter end. 

Just check back in about a month to see how it is going.


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.7.1 | Affinity Photo 1.7.1 | Affinity Publisher 1.7.1

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Personally, whether to space full stops or use the ellipsis as contained in a particular font depends. Some ellipsis are just too tight with little to no sidebearings and some are too loose with too much sidebearing and everything between. It also depends, to me, whether the font is light in color or heavy. Whether in plain text blocks or headlines or otherwise on point sizing.

When I do space out an "ellipsis" made of full stops, I use a nonbreaking space at least between the faux "ellipsis" and sometimes before/after. I shoot for the thinnest non-breaking space that visually looks good without adding undo spacing and, well, what the particular font provides.

The above, the faux "ellipsis" with nonbreaking spaces, is especially important in justified text, else in some cases the full stops can be crammed tighter than desired or spaced out. There is little to no automatic control over word spaces entered between full stops in justified text.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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56 minutes ago, ABP said:

Actually, Jeremy, you have not given the second example correctly; it should be . . . as I believe you will find recommended in most professional style manuals (though I could be wrong about that because it's ages since I've looked them up). And, as you will see from what I have typed . . . is the easiest of all on the eye. I shall certainly think what I want, sincerely . . . yours, Anthony

I had never heard of this until you posted it. I'm not doubting it, just saying I've been doing this professionally since 1999. I was trained that there are many "hold overs" from the days of the typewriter, one of the most common being double spaces after a period. I'm sure typewriters didn't have an ellipsis character so the old way would have been to type 3 periods.

And actually your posting with . . . is having the opposite affect on me. Because they are spaced out, they look terrible. They make the text flow look awful and create unnatural gaps in the paragraph. If I sit back and blur my eyes a little they ruin the flow and shape of the text block. I believe, especially if you're using a professional font, in relying on what the professional font creator made, and the proper ellipsis was created for the best visual use. Of course there are exceptions as well, like if I need to increase character spacing, then 3 periods is better.

Of course none of this really matters when it comes down to it, but personally I believe it's the professional way of doing it, an extra touch that I include in all my work.

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Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm talking about typesetting style manuals, not (just) typewriting. I have just had a look at my Oxford New Hart's Rules, which is one of the standards. Although it gives spaced . . . as traditional for typesetting, I have to admit that it says that ... is more and more frequent. Of course, this is as a result of its digital availability. So, a matter of choice . . . !

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The typeface designer should have designed the unicode ellipses glyph to have the appropriate sizing and spacing for the typeface. Furthermore, using the glyph avoids the possibility of the software altering the spacing between any two of the dots which constitute the ellipses. So it would seem appropriate to use the glyph tailored for that typeface!

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