PDF export rasterizes vector logo

[woefi]

I exported a sample page as PDFx3 containing:

• a logo created in Illustrator and exported as PDF (it has some effects, white glow, I know)
• and a text above
• and text below the logo so it is affected by the glow effect.

Publisher rasterizes the logo's edges, and the text below is also rasterized.

to compare i made the same file in Indesign and the pdf is correct:

• the logos edges remain vector shapes
• of course inside the logo there are pixels because of the shadow-effects but that's ok.
• the text underneath has sharp vector edges and a pixel fill - that's also ok.

 

This needs to be addressed before the final release of Publisher to be used in production.

 

Publisher: (pixelated in the output resolution 300dpi which is enough for a photo but not for a vector logo)

 

indesign (vector edges, even in the effects-areas):

[vonBusing]

If you use layer effects in Affinity apps, the actual area is rasterized on pdf export. This is a known issue since layer effects were introduced. Big improvements have been made with previous versions of Affinity apps to reduce object rasterization during pdf export, but this has not been addressed, what I know of. My best advice is to avoid them when vector-sharp output are expected. Many times there are other means to achieve the same effect that will not rasterize. Alternatively, you can also export at higher resolution for rasterized objects.

[woefi]

8 hours ago, vonBusing said:

This is a known issue since layer effects were introduced.

Well that's sad, in dtp I have to deal with various placed logos, diagrams, info graphics, which I do not always have the ability or even the right to change or simplify them. 

If they work when placed in Indesign, then there should be a way to do so in other dtp-apps.

As I understand, the problem is the PDF-version and its various feature-sets you export them to. Analysing the indesign-pdf you see that they leave the vector shape and only rasterize the fill, be it a gradient, shadow, image or whatever, there is always a sharp edge, which you can use to cut.

 

I will judge when the final version of Designer comes out, but until this is managable I cannot use it in day-to-day work as I cannot always check every-single file I place.

Tip: To make the hunt for rasterized objects easier, Indesign has an output-preview which highlights the critical parts so I can concentrate on these objects:

[Gabe]

Hi @woefi,

Apologise for the delayed reply. 

Can you please attach the .afpub file so we can have a look? 

As @vonBusing suggested, any FX would be rasterised when on export. 

Thanks,

Gabe. 

[woefi]

On 10/4/2018 at 12:15 PM, GabrielM said:

Can you please attach the .afpub file so we can have a look? 

@GabrielM I embedded the logo pdf and attached the .afpub (5mb) below: 

linked.afpub

[Gabe]

Thank you. As I thought, and as @vonBusing already mentioned, the FX were rasterised. That's the way we treat FX, and it's not going to change until the final release. This behaviour of rasterisation is consistent across our 3 apps, correct and expected. The Hybrid Adobe approach ( rasterising the interior of the shape while keeping the edge vector ) require a lot of work and development.  

 

I will move this to Feature Requests, as it is not a bug. 

[Fixx]

2 hours ago, GabrielM said:

The Hybrid Adobe approach ( rasterising the interior of the shape while keeping the edge vector )

Hybrid would really be preferred method.

[mac_heibu]

True @Fixx, but just remember: The first versions of InDesign didn’t have this feature (avoiding rasterisation and maintaining vectors by filling vector elements with image content = „hybrid approach“) too. It was quite a long way and required extensive research efforts to achieve the actual behaviour of InDesign. For me, it isn’t astonishing, that Affinity Publisher hasn’t this technique in a version one.

[woefi]

15 hours ago, GabrielM said:

I will move this to Feature Requests, as it is not a bug

Well then... make it a feature. 

Of course this is not easy, I'm not a programmer, but it is state-of-the-art (and I was only using Indesign CS5 from 8 years ago...)

And even I can understand CS5's basic mechanics, or rules, of keeping objects as "vector-as-possible". 

After all, this is a major quality issue! (you really don't want vector shapes rasterized at 300 dpi!, reminds me of those hobbyists using photoshop to create a logo )

[thadeusz]

If this is important to you, maybe you can double some elements and have a vector object on top - and the same element with FXs underneath? Just guessing.
Also you could rasterize with more dpi. But I understand that this would be a good to have feature.

[mac_heibu]

By the way, @woefi, this isn‘t necessarily a quality issue. Even vectors have to be rasterized, before being printed. A RIP andprinting press only know dots and no vectors. If you choose a higher resolution value in Publisher‘s „New“ dialog, the vectors will be rasterized to this value.

[Fixx]

6 hours ago, mac_heibu said:

By the way, @woefi, this isn‘t necessarily a quality issue. Even vectors have to be rasterized, before being printed. A RIP andprinting press only know dots and no vectors. If you choose a higher resolution value in Publisher‘s „New“ dialog, the vectors will be rasterized to this value.

This is simplification. Quality may be "good enough" but it is still not as good as full vector. When RIP rasters vectors to device pixels, halftoning is handled differently from bitmaps – halftoning is not an intermediate step then and halftone dots can be cut vectorsharp. Not to mention that device resolution can be 4800 dpi and over.

[mac_heibu]

This is the reason, why I wrote „… isn’t necessarily a quality issue“.

And: I am very sure, we can’t expect the same behaviour, that Adobe CC application have for quite a long time.

[woefi]

On 10/11/2018 at 9:51 PM, thadeusz said:

Also you could rasterize with more dpi

I'm sorry but it wouldn't matter if I sent a PDF with 1200dpi (rasterized) parts to my (various) print shops – through their RIPs it's recognized as <IMAGE> and gonna be rasterized at 300 or 400 dpi at best - which you can see (tho there are ways of including 1-bit TIFFs at around 2400dpi).

Imagine you would print a page mostly full of text, which you had rasterized before output, and then think about the amount of data such a multipage-pdf would have... 

And as alternative to this, only rasterizing parts of the page (as Affinity does now): On paper you will see the border at which pixels take over.

 

I'm talking about the output on a 4c-professional printing-press of course, which I'm doing for 26yrs. That's what publisher, or DTP in general, is mostly about, I guess. 

[thadeusz]

That's interesting. Never heard of this downsizing in RIP. I've never had any problems using higher resolutions with online printers (which were mostly around 600dpi for output). But anyway - as I also said before - it would be much better to address this problem and have vectors in PDF. But I must admit, at the moment I don't trust Affinity (Photo or Designer) with PDFs and try to output using Indesign. But I'm sure, this will change in the future ..

[Rob Luxford]

Similar problem but with more variables. 

Placed or embedded vectors (NO EFFECTS, REPEAT NO EFFECTS USED).

VIA PRINT
Create pdf via print. Placed or embedded vector becomes a rastered graphic. 
The same vector cut from designer and pasted onto the Publisher page does not raster. 

VIA EXPORT
The file "Exported" via "command shift option S" works fine, vectors preserved. 

Examples below. 

Test File Via Print Dialogue.pdf Test File Via Print Dialogue Postscript.ps Test File Exported to print pdf.pdf Test File Export Postscript.eps

[Old Bruce]

11 hours ago, Rob Luxford said:

VIA PRINT
Create pdf via print. Placed or embedded vector becomes a rastered graphic. 

 

Do you mean you are using the Operating System (not Publisher) to create the PDF? 

[Fixx]

14 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Do you mean you are using the Operating System (not Publisher) to create the PDF? 

Yes, probably as simple as that:

Affinity print engine is not very good I have heard so I guess there will be all kinds of anomalies.

[Rob Luxford]

Hi. 

Yes. The ability to impose small label artwork onto sheets using this method is totally irresistible. It's become embedded in the work flow. 

[efinity]

Another issue with rasterization, where a file link probably looses some connection to the vector information.

A vector graphic imported to publisher was exporting fine to PDF through Affiniy Publisher's internal engine. After some document versions and one or two AP updates, exporting suddenly started to rasterize. The strange thing is, that the vector graphic started to render pixelated on the screen in AP, too. So I guess it's not the export setting, but the way the vector is linked to AP.

To get rid of the problem, it's enough to embed the file again. It's not possible to refresh the file through resources window as AP sees the file as unchanged and the button is greyed out. The file is the same with the exact same location of the source. It seems that the link within AP lost some information and renders a preview of the file. No effects are applied to the layer. The only difference I could see between the old and the new link to the file is, that the layer of the pixelated image is missing the file extension in its name. In resources window, the file does always include the file extension.

Did anyone have the same issue? Could anyone find a cause or another solution than linking the file again?