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Advanced Page Management: Multiple Pages Feature


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While working on this feature, I hope you are also considering allowing variable length pages. This would be useful if allowing, in the future, Publisher to output web pages.

I'm thinking to something like Elixir's Foundry using a Publisher's page as a web page. If each page can have a different length, it could work.

Paolo

 

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Hi @PaoloT,

This is already possible via Spread Properties... the maximum height for a page is 256,000 px...

A Ten Page Spread with Differing Page Heights

image.thumb.png.c04481763acff264ecbc3bd95f5e0c33.png

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Bug: `Duplicate Selected Pages` and `Delete Selected Pages` remain inactive when page(s) are selected using the marquee. 

Beta: Publisher 2.6.0 build 2805 (Windows)

Steps

  1. Make sure that none of the pages are selected. If necessary, deselect the pages by clicking in a neutral region.
  2. Use the marquee to select the page(s).
  3. Page(s) are correctly selected (blue border around), but the "Duplicate Selected Pages" and "Remove Selected Pages" options remain inactive.

Expectation

Once you select page(s) using the marquee, the `Duplicate Selected Pages` and `Delete Selected Pages` icons should get active allowing to perform action. This is how it works in 2.5.5 retail.

Screenshots:

  • Selecting page using the marquee (left)
  • `Duplicate` & `Remove` icons remain inactive after page(s) selected (right) :(

2024-10-24_18-40-52.png.4655385616c25f7cc9a4b4152a041296.png2024-10-24_18-41-21.png.c038afe0f251221ffa49f9be7fcc9f85.png

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Hi @bbrother,

I can confirm this issue on Windows, it's working correctly on the Mac version...

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Spine Location Before/After: "Before 2" and "After 1" do the same thing so if the label of the Page field was changed to "Spine Before Page", the Before/After toggle could be removed.

Or replace the controls with a preview showing the appropriate number of page icons and the user could then click to place the spine. It's not totally gratuitous because it would also help users understand Ambidextrous/Facing. Normally the dialog in a facing-pages doc would have a 2-page spread icon with a spine in the centre. If you set Ambi you'd see a single page icon and think oops and set it back to Facing. If you increased page count you'd see more page icons appear after the spine. Those who needed it could then click to set the spine location.

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Some of my observations about the pages panel in the first beta (windows):

The response time from clicking OK to the appearance of thumbnails in the panel when creating new pages has improved significantly in the beta version compared to current retail 2.5.5

Response time when drawing a selection worsens the larger the size of thumbnails and the more pages are in the panel. By responsiveness, I mean the ability for the marquee to follow the mouse cursor.

The more pages and the larger the thumbnails in the page panel, the response time for marking a page thumbnail as selected (blue border around) after clicking or using a marquee is slightly delayed. This may be my subjective feeling || impression 🤔.

I will share more as new ones appear😉

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Bug: master page thumbnails in the `Master Page` and `Apply Master` drop-down's do not display `master objects` (preview is empty).

Beta: Publisher 2.6.0 build 2805 (Windows)

Steps (`Master Page` drop-down)

  1. Create master page A and place colored shapes (master objects) on it.
  2. Click [Add Pages] in the pages panel. This will bring up the `Add Pages` dialog.
  3. In this dialog, on the `Master Page` drop-down button itself (tiny thumbnails) and in its drop-down list, the page thumbnails do not display `master objects` (preview is empty). ⚠In fact, this is the case for all master pages, not just the aforementioned master page A.

Expectation: If this is not an intentional behavior change in 2.6, the mentioned page thumbnails should display `master objects`  as 2.5.5 retail does. It is also worth noting that the drop-down buttons, as well as the small thumbnails contained within them, are larger and provide more detail in 2.5.5 than in the beta version.

**master objects — elements on the master page.

Screenshot↓

  • Master page A with coloured shapes (master objects) in pages panel (left).
  • `Add pages` panel — empty preview in `Master page` drop-down (right). 

2024-10-25_13-52-23.png.7f91c1ac5c1616a6e922864362e096b5.png

Steps (`Apply Master` drop-down)

  1. You can use the same master A with coloured shapes (master objects)
  2. Right click on an page in pages panel and in the `right click` context menu go for `Apply Master...`. This will bring up `Apply Master` dialog.
  3. Same problem as above, page thumbnails preview is empty, no `master objects` shown.

Screenshot↓

  • Master page A with coloured shapes (master objects) in pages panel (left).
  • `Apply master` panel — empty preview in `Apply Master` drop-down (right). 

2024-10-25_14-26-43.png.ca2a411cef5e6de8d8c615e4131dd6c4.png

 

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@bbrother Interesting. Same for Apply Master but sometimes they do actually appear. They always appear when selected but usually don't appear in the popup list. For example, in this example, master A is blank in the list but rendered correctly after selected, and master E is the only one to appear in the list. I tried putting various things on various masters and couldn't figure out why they showed up sometimes. And if made a change to the document, such as adding a page, then tried again I might see something different in the list.

Screenshot2024-10-25at9_23_30AM.png.0a7d7d532d9ddd13651440cd08e33983.png

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17 minutes ago, bbrother said:

thumbnails in the `Master Page` and `Apply Master` drop-down's do not display master objects (preview is empty)

This appears to be a screen redraw issue...

On Mac, sometimes the Master Page elements appear on the thumbnails other times they don't... they never seem to appear on the default Master...

On Windows, they don't appear at all as you say... so it doesn't appear to be intentional behaviour...

Apply Master

AddMasterBlank.png.48a7e590549ccbe071fd262aae1a8e3f.png   AddMaster.png.b4c723d7650551c17af2e9137b8f78b0.png

 

Add Pages

  AddPagesBlank.png.1c0474e100c07037e640caa77f0a1dec.png   AddPages.png.0e888b21758eb2e206d607da255660b2.png

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Spread Properties regression: In v2.5, selecting a page thumbnail, and right-clicking it and choosing Spread Properties, would open Spread Properties with that page selected. It now opens with Spread selected forcing me to select the page again. Not a huge deal.

Also, the nice preview in Spread Properties that is just crying out to be clickable for selecting a page in a spread.

A minor note and this isn't new in the beta but should be sorted someday, it's odd that choosing Spread Properties opens a dialog named Spread Properties if a page or spread is selected, but the dialog is named Document Setup if a more than one spread is selected. It might be less of an issue if Spread Properties was renamed Spread Setup to match, since Document Setup is a standard term that shouldn't be changed.

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Spread Properties - editing multiple pages: If I'm creating a spread and need to adjust the size of multiple pages, it's a bit of a tedious task. Open the dialog, select the first page and edit its values, click OK, open the dialog, select the second page and edit its values, click OK, etc. I can't select page 1 and edit it and then select page 2 and edit it because the values for page 1 will be lost. This is how it worked in 2.5, too, but you didn't need to edit multiple pages in a spread in 2.5.

Ideally, selecting a page in the list shouldn't lose the changes from the first page, but if that's beyond the scope for 2.6, perhaps an Apply button could be added to the dialog.

Spread Properties - Scaling: I know it would mess up the dialog design to address this, but since Scaling applies to the spread and not to the pages, its options are disabled when you select one page in the spread which seems odd since Scaling is the middle tab.

It almost feels like this dialog is being asked to do too much, that it would be better to right-click a page and get Page Setup, right-click a spread and get Spread Setup, and right-click multiple spreads and get Document Setup. It would certainly be easier to explain in a manual. 🙂 

Edited by MikeTO
typo
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Spread properties - X and Y: I'm just getting to these controls today, this is very cool and a lot of fun. But should we really be allowed to set X so that a page overlaps with a previous page? For example, in this test doc I've set the second and third pages of spread 6-9 (based on master B) to have X=0 so they overlap completely with the first page. The panel shows the first page with an A on it and the fourth page with a D on it but no B or C. The document window shows B and C even though their pages are overlapping with the first page.

test 6.afpub

Screenshot2024-10-25at3_45_12PM.png.e227efd015d3766cf2366b6350a731c7.png Screenshot2024-10-25at3_51_09PM.thumb.png.801ec02dd41bbc7d9f3d12f74a976856.png

Using the same document, if I change the fourth page to X=0, the spread width collapses as it should and all four of the page letters appear on the document page - but the contents are all scaled and are no longer actual size.

Screenshot2024-10-25at3_45_32PM.png.95f3a072febcc965853fcd3d47d4cd51.png Screenshot2024-10-25at3_52_39PM.thumb.png.055e021a7c91cbc0a3f7ae910109b372.png

If I select page 6 in the panel, the first page of the spread, and click Delete, the spread is just 3 invisible pages in the panel and the document window has a rendering issue, with the white of the page background drawn only as far as the content I had on the master page.

Screenshot2024-10-25at3_58_53PM.png.856ff4ef9a332e882e5052a8735f2a23.png Screenshot2024-10-25at3_59_49PM.png.820d49df1509ab8d7ce1afff58ab51bc.png

I know it's not supposed to support complex folds but here's a 2x2 spread for fun - the master content is scaled so it's not terribly useful.

Screenshot2024-10-25at3_48_12PM.png.0b9318952f5bcc650891a34fc0c8b718.png 

And here's a folded cross, but the master content is scaled and on the wrong pages so again not really useful. I attached the file for those who want to play with it.

test 7.afpub

Screenshot2024-10-25at4_06_23PM.png.3a0eeb70990eddb331296b35ddc91beb.png Screenshot2024-10-25at4_06_36PM.png.a0debcdd13436abed9db949a88d2d88f.png

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On 10/22/2024 at 2:02 PM, Return said:

Too bad you cannot start out with a multipage layout.

Indeed. I can't come up with arguments against creating a user-friendly entry point (new document) with default templates presented visually as elegantly as shown below. And, in general, against using small illustrations in dialogues to show the consequences of a choice, such as when selecting options like 'add pages' with 'extend', etc.

image.png.35daed9e01a7f2e5d11f52de7dfcba92.png

Festina lente

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4 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Spread properties - X and Y

oh wow, this is AMAZING! So, my earlier query is indeed possible to do.

Overlapping may be very valuable, actually. Imagine that the printed result is not a brochure, but an array of panels arranged in space with three dimensional depth (stacked), or a manual imposition.

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18 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Also, the nice preview in Spread Properties that is just crying out to be clickable for selecting a page in a spread.

I was thinking the same thing👍

Daz1.png

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18 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Spread properties - X and Y: I'm just getting to these controls today,

WOW thanks MikeTO I didn't think this was currently possible. 

Just had a go at creating a 12 panel concertina fold map template and this method works a treat - just a shame it doesn't auto generate fold marks on a pdf, although, I'm guessing this is planned ----ACE---- 

SCR-20241026-obzs.png

Daz1.png

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Even though I believe this is a bug, it is possible to create a Master containing 1,000 pages...

image.png.e1bc48ae3997cb45945ebfb37d39a60b.png

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Repeatable crash with small thumbnails: Start Publisher, create a new document, change the Pages panel to small thumbnails, and close the document = crash. It's the thumbnail size that is key to this crash.

Affinity Publisher 2 Beta-2024-10-26-122023.ips

Thumbnail choice not sticky: Every time I start Publisher, the thumbnail size reverts to Medium.

Spread properties - X and Y: The max X and Y offset is 61440 pt, the same as the max page size, but should there be a max gap between pages to avoid somebody accidentally doing something like this?

Screenshot2024-10-26at10_27_57AM.thumb.png.4a858c4f6ec45d412a7185861e9b687c.png

4 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Even though I believe this is a bug, it is possible to create a Master containing 1,000 pages...

I reported this a few pages back, at least for pages, and Jon replied "we intend to limit to 10 but it is possible to bypass in a few ways, which we are happy to allow if the user decides to do so"

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8 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I reported this a few pages back, at least for pages, and Jon replied "we intend to limit to 10 but it is possible to bypass in a few ways, which we are happy to allow if the user decides to do so"

Completely missed that one... I may be wrong but I think the ability to create a Master with 1,000 pages may be a slightly different issue despite the same potential outcome only because it was purely by chance that I managed to create it...
 

Quote

Max # of pages in a spread: You are correct, we intend to limit to 10 but it is possible to bypass in a few ways, which we are happy to allow if the user decides to do so

A limit of 10 pages per spread would be a shame and would negate things like @Dazmondo77's 12-panel, 24-page cross fold or a 12-panel, 24-page snake fold template so hopefully, the bypass will stay in place or the page limit will remain higher...

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When repositioning pages on a Master in a multi-page spread the Spread Properties panel shows incorrect X and Y coordinates for the respective pages resulting in the wrong page being adjusted when changing individual page dimensions...

Example 1 - 12 Panel Cross Fold

Note the page selection and its respective X and Y coordinates... This means if you select page 2 to adjust its width or height you are actually adjusting page 7, select page 9 you are adjusting page 5...

PageCoordinates.thumb.png.1011c30c8fdd2b34952cdd0c21316d90.png

This is the actual page order in terms of how it relates to the page selected in the Spread Properties panel...

CrossFoldPageOrder.thumb.png.3dab1ccd28033509bc7a93be05b67ec6.png

 

Example 2 - 5 Panel Maltese Cross

Again, note the coordinates when pages 3, 4 or 5 are selected. This means:

  • Selecting page 3 adjusts page 4
  • Selecting page 4 adjusts page 5
  • Selecting page 5 adjusts page 3

Pages 1 and 2 are correct...

MalteseAfterAdjustments.thumb.png.feee8e4437d6713de58d8d1e541505f5.png

This is the actual page order in terms of how it relates to the page selected in the Spread Properties panel...

MalteseCrossActualPageOrder.thumb.png.3e8e1a594b66d6d487be80b269877657.png

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7 minutes ago, Hangman said:

When repositioning pages in a multi-page spread the Spread Properties panel shows incorrect X and Y coordinates for the respective pages resulting in the wrong page being adjusted when changing individual page dimensions...

I'm not seeing this on macOS - can you share test files? But I already reported above (https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/220867-advanced-page-management-multiple-pages-feature/&do=findComment&comment=1299031) that content is scaled and offset on pages so it's super confusing which page is which. That post includes a test file for a folded cross just like yours and I checked it and the the correct X and Y coordinates are shown for its pages.

I assume your screenshots are from Windows. Looking at the last set of screenshots (not the master page ones), you have pages named "Inner Spread Page 1" while on macOS we have "Spread Page 1 (Document page 7)". macOS also don't have the big page numbers in the preview, just little image icons, so it looks like there's a discrepancy there. Finally, it looks like Windows has the Resize Linked Pages control in this dialog and that control is only supposed to be present for masters, not document pages, so that looks like a bug. Can you confirm all of this?

Screenshot2024-10-26at3_00_59PM.png.bf627229e9e9d0a1543bae425a4cf206.png

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3 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I assume your screenshots are from Windows.

No, they're from Mac...

3 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Looking at the last set of screenshots (not the master page ones), you have pages named "Inner Spread Page 1" while on macOS we have "Spread Page 1 (Document page 7)".

I'm editing the spread properties of the Master, rather than the Pages because I want to apply the Master to multiple pages for both inner and outer spreads multiple times in the same document so it doesn't make sense to format it at a page level (I should have mentioned that in the original post but I've now updated the post to reflect this)...

They're named 'Inner Spread Page 1' etc., because that is the name of my Master Page...

3 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Content is scaled and offset on pages so it's super confusing which page is which.

That was the reason for adding numbers to the pages so I could keep track of which page was which... I was in the process of editing Master Pages and initially, I couldn't figure out why the page I had selected in the Spread Properties panel wasn't the page receiving the changes...

It may have to do with the respective page orders... Mine goes horizontally rather than vertically though I wouldn't have anticipated that would result in the issue when selecting pages in the Spread Properties windows, i.e., the page selected should be the page edited...

Yours  Left | Mine Right

ActualPageOrder.thumb.png.68e39ea1f6b2f889e20b5b5f10d7bb8b.png

 

3 hours ago, MikeTO said:

macOS also don't have the big page numbers in the preview, just little image icons, so it looks like there's a discrepancy there.

I've added the page numbers to keep the graphic simpler to follow...

3 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Finally, it looks like Windows has the Resize Linked Pages control in this dialog and that control is only supposed to be present for masters, not document pages, so that looks like a bug. Can you confirm all of this?

My fault for not mentioning I was editing the Master...

3 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Can you share test files?

Of course... Note that the page numbers were added before the pages were moved...

Maltese Cross 150 Square.afpub

12 Panel Cross Fold.afpub

 

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Haha, that sounded so functional and combined with the big page numbers which I didn't know you'd added, I just assumed it was Windows. The page numbers are a nice touch.

The reason I created my cross with a document page instead of the master like you did was so I could see which page of the master spread was where in the document page. But since the content ended up being scaled and offset it didn't help much.

The problem with your cross document is that Publisher won't let you order the pages this way, it doesn't actually support what you and I are playing with. Serif can correct me, but I believe the intention of the feature is to create horizontal spreads in horizontal docs and vertical spreads in vertical docs - you can't even create vertical spreads in horizontal docs, let alone crosses. It's fun to play with but if it did support this, I'd expect it to allow us to drag a page to the top or bottom of a thumbnail in the panel when working in a horizontal document.

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1 hour ago, MikeTO said:

The problem with your cross document is that Publisher won't let you order the pages this way, it doesn't actually support what you and I are playing with… I believe the intention of the feature is to create horizontal spreads in horizontal docs and vertical spreads in vertical docs…

I’m not entirely sure what the full extent of the feature is but if this isn’t intended to be supported it makes little sense that we can adjust the X and Y coordinates for every page…

I agree some clarification is needed but I still think this is a potential bug if the selected page isn’t the page the adjustments are applied to but a broader understanding of the feature expectations and limitations would be helpful…

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Viewing a multi-page spread: If I can double-click the spine of a facing-page spread to view the entire spread in the document window, why can't I double-click the spine of a spread with more than 2 pages? I know I can double-click the label but I'm very used to double-clicking the spine.

 

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