Where is everything?

[perfidious]

I love having a real alternative to Photoshop but here's one major beef: your "help" file never tells me what I need to know. I wanted to know how to reduce the saturation in an image. That's all. Do you think I could find out where the tool, filter, slider, button, gizmo or whatever actually is? No!

I remember this from Designer. Never could find anything. Had to hunt and peck and slowly gave up and went back to Illustrator.

It's appalling that the builders of what looks like a fine graphic design tool should be so ignorant of their newer customers needs. I've used Photoshop since it came out. I know about digital images. I don't want a course and I don't want a long-winded tutorial. I want a simple step-by-step procedure right up there at the front that says: Here's the Saturation Tool. Select the image or part of the image and move the slider left, to decrease saturation or right to increase it.

Is that so hard? What ever happened to common sense? I switched to Affinity from Adobe partly because of cost. I'm still glad I did but I don't want to watch a long-winded tutorial with some bore blathering on about everything they don't want to know before finally, incidentally, revealing what I really want to know: where the button is.

[v_kyr]

48 minutes ago, perfidious said:

... Is that so hard? What ever happened to common sense? I switched to Affinity from Adobe partly because of cost. I'm still glad I did but I don't want to watch a long-winded tutorial with some bore blathering on about everything they don't want to know before finally, incidentally, revealing what I really want to know: where the button is.

• https://affinity.help/photo2/English.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Filters/filter_auto.html?title=Auto Filters
• https://affinity.help/photo2/English.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Adjustments/adjustment_HSL.html?title=HSL adjustment
• ...

For accessing the online help stuff generally look under ...

 

[dvoth]

Did you try the search? Entering "saturation" in the Affinity Photo help includes a result for "HSL Adjustment" which is what you can use for making changes to the saturation.

[thomaso]

56 minutes ago, perfidious said:

I've used Photoshop since it came out. I know about digital images.

(…) Here's the Saturation Tool.

Ironically the tool is named like in Photoshop: "Sponge Brush Tool".

56 minutes ago, perfidious said:

I don't want a long-winded tutorial. I want a simple step-by-step procedure right up there at the front that says: Here's the Saturation Tool.

I am convinced there are many sources that explain how to reduce saturation. But you won't hardly find one that does not tell anything more but only this. So your way to search and to filter a search and the results may matter a lot.

How about a search with "Where is everything?" … and get pointed directly to saturation solutions?

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, perfidious said:

I wanted to know how to reduce the saturation in an image. That's all. Do you think I could find out where the tool, filter, slider, button, gizmo or whatever actually is? No!

Try Google search engine on the online Help, which often give relevant results with common question:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+reduce+the+saturation+in+an+image+site:https://affinity.help

HSL Adjustments and Sponge Brush Tool from previous posts is in the search results. 

[R C-R]

@perfidious, just curious but when you were new to Photoshop, did that app's help provide simple step-by-step procedures for everything you wanted to know how to do with it? Or did you find it necessary or useful to search online for Adobe and/or third party tutorials & videos, and/or post queries in Adobe's and/or third party support forums?

Personally, when I first was trying to find my way around the Affinity apps, the first thing I did was just to try out the tools to see what they could do, & do the same with the Studio panels & other options. I set the tooltip delay to near zero & paid attention to the status bar to help with that, & only when none of that told me what I wanted to know did I refer to the help, search online, & start posting to this forum.

It did not take as long as I thought it would to get comfortable with using the apps, in part because once I learned how one thing worked, it became more obvious how others did, & also because the support provided by the user community & staff was far better than I expected.

I don't know if a similar strategy would work for you but you might consider it or something like it.

[Pšenda]

3 hours ago, R C-R said:

app's help provide simple step-by-step

I'll just add - the Help of any application usually only serves to describe the application's environment and its tools and functions, not to explain what and how to do it. This is what tutorials and Workbooks are for. It's a shame that Workbooks from Serif are no longer available.

https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/learn/

[R C-R]

30 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

I'll just add - the Help of any application usually only serves to describe the application's environment and its tools and functions, not to explain what and how to do it.

I cannot imagine how huge the help would have to be to cover all the possible things users could do with apps like PS or AP, particularly if it included detailed step-by-step instructions for each of them.

[perfidious]

People seem to get so pissed off when you criticize their favourite app. But all I’m asking for is a simple bit of information placed at the beginning of each help file. E.G., “Saturation: the saturation level is controlled by a slider than you will find here (arrow highlights the app). This is how it’s done in most other applications I see. I was able to find the saturation slider but only after 5-6 Youtube videos, which never seemed get around to this rather important fact. 

But don’t take it all personally. It’s a fine application. I’ll keep using it and eventually I’ll have watched every Youtube video they have and have learned the location of most sliders and buttons.

[walt.farrell]

3 minutes ago, perfidious said:

But all I’m asking for is a simple bit of information placed at the beginning of each help file. E.G., “Saturation: the saturation level is controlled by a slider than you will find here (arrow highlights the app).

Often when you're searching the Affinity Help, you'll click on a result which is at a deeper level (more detailed) than you need for finding out where the tool lives it what it is like. Scroll down on that page to the "See Also" list. That list is likely to lead to the less detailed pages you're looking for.

[jimh12345]

While I'm respectful of the awesome complexity of something like Affinity Photo, I will say that the problem the OP describes is one that I've encountered as well - and it's not confined to Affinity, it comes up in other big applications.

I go to Help to find out how to do something - it describes how to use the So-And-So tool - but I'm unable to find that tool in the UI.   Sometimes it's not even currently in the visible UI - for example, maybe it's not in a default toolbar.  The Help doesn't tell you where it's hiding- and I think this is because in a big application you typically have way too many options for how toolbars are configured and what's in them...
 

 

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, perfidious said:

But all I’m asking for is a simple bit of information placed at the beginning of each help file. E.G., “Saturation: the saturation level is controlled by a slider than you will find here (arrow highlights the app).

But as you probably know by now there are several different ways AP offers to alter the saturation of an image, only one of which is implemented as a tool (the Sponge Brush), which does not have sliders. That tool may or may not be visible in the Tools panel, so an arrow pointing to it in a help topic would have to mention that as well, or provide a link to the help topic(s) that explain that.

You also can use the HSL and/or Vibrance adjustments, both of which do have sliders but they affect saturation in different ways.

If you search the help on "saturate" all of these should come up in the results.

[thomaso]

4 hours ago, perfidious said:

all I’m asking for is a simple bit of information

… whereas your selected title sounds very different: "Where is everything?"

As for "saturation", there are multiple options/tools/workflows, not just one. Therefore, you seem to feel overserved if they are all mentioned – and underserved if one is missing. So it is your expectation or request that "simply" causes a Dilemma.

[Pšenda]

7 hours ago, perfidious said:

... and eventually I’ll have watched every Youtube video they have and have learned the location of most sliders and buttons. 

So according to you, all the information contained in "every Youtube video" should be available in the application Help? Really? Can you imagine its size and complexity?

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

the information contained in "every Youtube video" should be available in the application Help? Can you imagine its complexity?

To avoid complexity, every wanted workflow will be …

9 hours ago, perfidious said:

a simple bit of information placed at the beginning of each help file

… and note:

9 hours ago, perfidious said:

This is how it’s done in most other applications

[perfidious]

I wish I hadn't opened this topic, especially with such a provocative headline as "Where is Everything."

Seems I've aroused members of this group into defensive postures where all you want to do is argue. Please understand that I will not read any more posts on this matter.

I think Affinity has provided a wonderful alternative to Adobe and I'll certainly keep using it. Not likely to revisit this forum, however.

[John Rostron]

13 minutes ago, perfidious said:

 Not likely to revisit this forum, however.

Your loss.

John

[Aammppaa]

Comparing the Affinity and Photoshop online help for the HSL filter /adjustment I see one key difference... 

Adobe show an image of the filter dialogue where I can clearly see the saturation slider, while Serif do not. They only show the effect of applying an HSL adjustment to am image. 

I have to say that I find the Adobe approach superior. 

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, perfidious said:

Seems I've aroused members of this group into defensive postures where all you want to do is argue.

All most of us are trying to do is explain several ways you can find the information you are looking for.

1 hour ago, Aammppaa said:

Comparing the Affinity and Photoshop online help for the HSL filter /adjustment I see one key difference... 

Adobe show an image of the filter dialogue where I can clearly see the saturation slider, while Serif do not. They only show the effect of applying an HSL adjustment to am image. 

Since the AP HSL adjustment window has a clearly labeled "Saturation Shift" slider, why should the help topic have to show a picture of that window?

[KarinC]

1 hour ago, Aammppaa said:

 

I have to say that I find the Adobe approach superior. 

It might be. I used Illustrator for 20 years illustrated dozens of textbooks. Now, if I use the version I bought many years ago I can be liable for piracy. I also do not want to pay Adobe a monthly fee for as long as I live. I like Affinity. Designer and Publisher has made it possible and affordable to create a project I've wanted to do for along time. I usually search for a YT video on whatever it is I want to do and end up learning a few other things in the process. 

I've been using Publisher for about 2 months now and it is beginning to feel intuitive.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, KarinC said:

I usually search for a YT video on whatever it is I want to do and end up learning a few other things in the process. 

FWIW, the official Affinity video tutorials are available directly from the Help menu, so for example if you use that & click on the "Filters & Adjustments (V2)" playlist, the first one that comes up is for the HSL adjustment. In the first few seconds of that video, James Ritson shows where to find that adjustment in the UI. If that is all you need to learn, stop there.

The Help menu also has a direct link to the Quickstart Guide, which offers a quick overview of such things as where to find tools in the Tools panel, Adjustments, & so on. 

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Aammppaa said:

I have to say that I find the Adobe approach superior. 

I wouldn't compare*. – Decades ago Adobe used to have printed "Reference Manuals" that explained in a certain order each available function individually, with every single step listed. – Serif never created that kind of manual while their workbooks had a different approach and structure.

*at least not without comparing the quite different prices. – Consider how this 'manual arguing' began years ago (… kind of "wash me but don't make me wet"):

On 12/14/2021 at 4:35 PM, perfidious said:

Illustrator has a manual. If a developer doesn't offer a manual it's because they think user forum will do the job for free. So Affinity, you want to pay me to hang out here fine. Otherwise, its back to Illustrator with all it's bloated complexity, hidious interface and greedy subscription rates.

[jmwellborn]

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

I cannot imagine how huge the help would have to be to cover all the possible things users could do with apps like PS or AP, particularly if it included detailed step-by-step instructions for each of them.

I can give you a very rough estimate. Each time I have tried something new, or something I didn’t understand while learning to use Affinity Photo, Designer, and Publisher after years with InDesign and Photoshop (and disliking both) I have made a “HOW TO…” example and printed the page. These are very sophisticated apps, each offering so many ways to accomplish a single result. I now have about 1500 pages of stuff and I am not finished. And new stuff crops up every day, learning more from posted questions in these forums. Can you imagine the problem — if I tried — indexing all that? Or creating a useable table of contents? Even so, since I learn more easily by reading and doing, rather than by watching videos, my reams of paper have served their purpose, although I keep them around for the occasional search.  But I don’t suggest it to Serif as the solution — defies logic and common sense.

[thomaso]

34 minutes ago, jmwellborn said:

I now have about 1500 pages of stuff and I am not finished. And new stuff crops up every day, learning more from posted questions in these forums. Can you imagine the problem — if I tried — indexing all that? Or creating a useable table of contents?

Don't you have them on disk, too? Then an according mac search can even find content inside your files on disk – while the finder window lets you create a TOC of the "main chapters" (via copy/paste to .txt), for instance …

…

Quote

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book - flow styles & sections _OldBruce.afpub
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cmyk seperation
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color value issues
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[Aammppaa]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Since the AP HSL adjustment window has a clearly labeled "Saturation Shift" slider, why should the help topic have to show a picture of that window?

Perhaps so that I can read the help without the application open, or even on a machine that does not have Affinity installed? 

Or simply to indicate that I am looking at the right thing - a visual confirmation. 

Or because some people learn from an image more easily than from text. 

And in online help there is no cost of additional pages to print, so why not include an image of what you are discussing? 

By your arguement, why show the interface in the tutorial video? Why not just discuss it verbally? After all the interface is clearly visible on your computer.