AI generative Fill in Affinity

[LuBre]

47 minutes ago, bayustudio said:

if generative fill really happens in affinity (as core features), it would likely turn Affinity into a subscription-based service, right? Not sure the majority of users will be happy with it.

It's not an easy way to get out of this super-sticky situation.

Affinity could add a a "pay per plugin" model where you can buy a specific plugin but the price should be very low. You can have Photoshop + Lightroom for 12$/month, so... Yeah, not a good situation at all.

I hope they can find a way, any way.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, LuBre said:

Affinity could add a a "pay per plugin" model where you can buy a specific plugin but the price should be very low.

I'm not at all sure the current Affinity plug in architecture (which basically just supports a subset of PS style filters) could support AI features like generative fill, so I suspect it would take a major rewrite to implement that.

[LuBre]

Just now, R C-R said:

I'm not at all sure the current Affinity plug in architecture (which basically just supports a subset of PS style filters) could support AI features like generative fill, so I suspect it would take a major rewrite to implement that.

I guess so, yes. I'll be honest: knowing they're working on "something" would be enough, at least for me. I am not in a hurry, I do not "need" the AI tool tomorrow. It's just about the vision and the upcoming months/year, that's it.

[R C-R]

7 minutes ago, LuBre said:

I'll be honest: knowing they're working on "something" would be enough, at least for me.

They have made it quite clear in many different posts that they will not publicly discuss any details at all of their future plans unless/until it at least makes it into customer betas, & that this is because they do not want to raise any false expectations about what or when something will be added, or in what form it will be implemented if it is.

This is not unusual in the software industry; many companies have similar policies.

So when they say something like 'no plans at this time' that is pretty much all you will get from them.

[evtonic3]

And the opposite is a company like Pixelmator (Pixelmator Pro in particular) where they absolutely will drop big features like video layers as they develop and surprise everyone. 

[j3rry]

I am absolutely sure that in a few years all companies in the graphics industry will be using artificial intelligence in their products.
 

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, bayustudio said:

I've tried photoshop generative fill and it was enjoyable.
however, the process is done in the cloud with the trained model from millions of adobe stock photos.

if generative fill really happens in affinity (as core features), it would likely turn Affinity into a subscription-based service, right?

Well there are still apps which don't need/use an internet connection and so access to their implementers servers, in order to perform some AI based functions like cut out of objects, making more precise subject selections and so on. - The whole highly depends on how well pre-trained and accurate certain reused neural network algorithms are here, how they've been implemented and also for what kind of data models and those processing they have been initially concipied.

Thus if you always would need some internet connection and huger net based data transfers, it will make the whole very internet computing dependent and then you can't use such functions and services on Robinson Cruso Island, where you probably won't have any or good internet access (...being far from the shot). - Another point is no overall granted data security here, as your transfered data will mostly flow then into the service vendor's AI based still learning engine pool and so feed it, as does everyone else data. If the vendors servers are hacked (which is common usage nowadays) your possibly sensible data might fall into other third-party hands.

All in all it's a difficult to handle theme, as ceratin things and features can be helpful, but also bear some general risks then. - Thus the best would probably be, if a software's  AI learning curve would be handled entirely locally on your computer, without any need to have some internet connections to external servers. That in turn would only be possible for local self-contained AI functions and so for non-generic, no chat like systems.

 

[albertkinng]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:25 PM, LuBre said:

which you can use to fix an image in a second with zero effort

That's not helping with productivity. Having an image fixed effortlessly is enabling your procrastination.

[R C-R]

30 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Well there are still apps which don't need/use an internet connection and so access to their implementers servers, in order to perform some AI based functions like cut out of objects, making more precise subject selections and so on.

But are there any that can do generative fill without a connection?

[v_kyr]

15 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But are there any that can do generative fill without a connection?

I think you can easily answer that yourself, if you make yourself clear what (an arbitrary) generative fill would mean here!

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

I think you can easily answer that yourself, if you make yourself clear what (an arbitrary) generative fill would mean here!

I have no firsthand knowledge of how it works in PS so I am asking for someone who does have firsthand experience to explain how it works in that app & if it requires web access.

[LuBre]

1 hour ago, albertkinng said:

That's not helping with productivity. Having an image fixed effortlessly is enabling your procrastination.

Only if you're a procrastinator by nature, in which case anything will be bad for your productivity. Even a simple Google search. Procrastination in general is a very bad habit. This AI tool doesn't have anything to do with that.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

I have no firsthand knowledge of how it works in PS so I am asking for someone who does have firsthand experience to explain how it works in that app & if it requires web access.

I've already included above the word arbitrary (...whatever, any subject) for you there, so that you can imagine that for generating whatever contents fill means here, that it then has to have knowledge about whatever subject is concrete here. - In other words it's knowledge database has to know what specific defined subjects are, how they look and how they have to be included in some fitting manner into your local doc-image context.

So as you theoretical may can ask for whatever sort of subject here, it would logically need to have a pretty huge own image database of whatever subjects in xxx variations. And in cases it doesn't have already own such subjects, it may have to look otherwhere on the net for the ...by you specified/defined subjects... in order to see what those are and how to incorporate those then into it's own learning procedure database context.

So for being able to really generating arbitrary defined subjects (...without having it to say sorry I don't know what that is, since that's actually not part of my [limited] knowledge DB...) it would need to have an internet connection!

See quite theme related ...

 

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

So for being able to really generating arbitrary defined subjects (...without having to say sorry I don't know what that is, since that's actually not part of my [limited] knowledge DB...) it would need to have an internet connection!

Well, if the subjects really were arbitrary (IOW, chosen at random or by chance), then this would be of little use.

Regardless, can I assume the long & short of it is you personally do not know of any app that could do this without an internet connection?

[LuBre]

If these 20 examples don't make you seriously think about the deep impact this AI tool has on the indusrty... I honestly don't know what to say.

There are a few less impressive but most of them are just incredbile (the guy on the mountains, the boy on the sand, etc).

 

 

[v_kyr]

36 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Well, if the subjects really were arbitrary (IOW, chosen at random or by chance), then this would be of little use.

Don't know what that should mean here, aka pro or cons an internet connection?

37 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Regardless, can I assume the long & short of it is you personally do not know of any app that could do this without an internet connection?

As I already tried to explain, those apps who can deal with chat based written or spoken Q/A based I/O (such a also learning & growing communication model) and then should also be able to generate arbitrary (whatever you tell them) contents, do need huge server based processing and DBs, since they are using huge AI models which would sooner or later blow up the resources of a common local computer system here.

No I don't know of any local ready/final (right out of the box) to use generative system, only some dev based projects where you start to reuse some AI frameworks in order to implement such systems. For the later you start and test locally until the overall capacities would exceed your local dev envirenment, where you then will have to go the distributed env way. - Think of it in a similar fashion like let's say, trying to have/hold all the whole Amazon shop contents then locally on your iMac in a still fluid workable, accessable and growable manner!

 

 

[R C-R]

38 minutes ago, LuBre said:

If this 20 examples don't make you seriously think about the deep impact this AI tool has on the indusrty... I honestly don't know what to say.

It does get me thinking, in part about how much of the user input when using this tool is being sent back to Adobe & what they will do with it, for better or worse. Considering the potential for misrepresentation of real world occurrences for less than benevolent purposes, I'm also wondering how much backlash & resistance there might be to using it at all, the increasing demand that should be regulated, & by whom.

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Don't know what that should mean here, aka pro or cons an internet connection?

That has nothing to do with the Internet, just with "arbitrary" in the usual sense of random, by chance, not intrinsic to, etc. -- IOW, the first definition at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary.

So maybe just semantics?

[v_kyr]

48 minutes ago, R C-R said:

That has nothing to do with the Internet, just with "arbitrary"

With "arbitrary" I meant whatever it should be, like an infinite integral in mathematics!

[Thomahawk]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:43 AM, TariqMK said:

Please note that if you drop the ball entirely on this and AI in general, this could have catastrophic consequences for the Affinity Suite as we know it.

You might not have any immediate plans, but if this doesn't change (and users arent made aware of it), then its too big of a feature gap for people to ignore.

AI has even changed the definition of what a "photo" is, so you simply cannot afford to ignore it.

This is truly a potential divergence point for Affinity. I hope the right path is chosen.

I see this exactly like you do. This is a game changer for me and all my colleagues. We can not afford to skip such a feature, our competition will crush us. We change back to Adobe as soon as that feature is included into the official Photoshop version.

Sad to say, but if Affinity does not very soon add AI to afPhoto, they are done.

[nezumi]

I remember that process of making something as simple as inner shadow in Adobe Illustrator was unnecessary long, manual task. You could make it by inner glow with black color but if you wanted offset you had to play with it making it awkwardly long process for something that simple.
I haven't use Adobe Illustrator since Affinity showed up on windows, so I don't know if they added this simple effect easily achievable in Designer. Maybe somebody can confirm if they did. Because it would be hysterically funny if Adobe was adding AI gimmicky... I am sorry, I mean SUPER NECESSARY, FUTURISTIC+ tools to the software that cant even make inner shadow quick

All that AI thing - although potentially very useful for now turned into mass hysteria. FOMO took over, people think that will loose a job if immediately will not start using something with AI in the name. It really is rather sad spectacle to watch. I guess society has been changed by social media into that mass of people mindlessly chasing what is "viral" at the moment.

To put things in perspective - I still dont use mobile phone. I had it for some time like two decades ago then I just stopped using it. I have a job, people still can reach me - its all good. Many people would consider impossible to function without mobile phone, going mental if battery goes down, reaching for it first thing after opening eyes in the morning... It really isnt necessary. You can make it necessary, you can convince yourself you will be bloody forgotten if you dont have phone for a day or two. But its not reality. Same is with AI. If you give up to the mass hysteria, if you convince yourself you really cant do anything without it then you will make it necessary for you.

I am not saying dont use your phone or dont use AI tools. All I am saying is that it is really not as necessary as you might think. Just because it is hot topic and companies will try to make a quick buck on this trend. You know that lead guy in Midjourney is the guy who was trying to convince everybody before that device called "Leap Motion controller"  was the future and soon all the world will be using it? I dont know where it is now but I am still using mouse and stylus. And so do you I bet.

Dont give up to hysteria, take a deep breath. Dont worry - youre not loosing your job because theres no "AI" in the name of the software you are using. If it becomes the way everything operates - we will all transition to it naturally. But for now deep breath in, deep breath out. World is not a train that will just leave you floating in space because you were too late to start writing damn prompts

[LuBre]

4 hours ago, nezumi said:

All that AI thing - although potentially very useful for now turned into mass hysteria. FOMO took over, people think that will loose a job if immediately will not start using something with AI in the name. It really is rather sad spectacle to watch. I guess society has been changed by social media into that mass of people mindlessly chasing what is "viral" at the moment.

Same words used by BlackBerry and Kodak when the digital era started being a reality.

 

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To put things in perspective - I still dont use mobile phone

I don't get how this weird choice enforces your point of view, to be honest. It just feels extremely condescending.

 

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Dont give up to hysteria, take a deep breath. Dont worry - youre not loosing your job because theres no "AI" in the name of the software you are using. If it becomes the way everything operates - we will all transition to it naturally. But for now deep breath in, deep breath out. World is not a train that will just leave you floating in space because you were too late to start writing damn prompts

I am not sure if you're serious or not. Either you're extremely disconnected from the modern reality or you just like trolling around.

Affinity will be forced to adapt and follow the market. Not today, not tomorrow. Not in a month. But if they don't put "Artificial Intelligence" in their agenda, in any shape of form, they are screwed.  This "Ai thing", as you sarcastically call it (because you feel far superior to those poor people who fall for the "FOMO"), is not a fad. It's not something that comes and goes. The sooner people realizes and embraces it (the correct way)... The better.

People will not be replaced by AI. People will be replaced by other people who know how to use the AI.

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, LuBre said:

People will not be replaced by AI. People will be replaced by other people who know how to use the AI to their advantage.

I suspect that for years to come there will still be a sizable market for those who avoid using AI in their work for a variety of reasons.

[LuBre]

11 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I suspect that for years to come there will still be a sizable market for those who avoid using AI in their work for a variety of reasons.

I totally agree with you. There will be almost no impact at all for some jobs/professionals. AI is not going to be "everywhere". But in some areas/jobs it will be very prevalent and being updated with the latest trends/news/tools will be mandatory.

[R C-R]

19 minutes ago, LuBre said:

AI is not going to be "everywhere". But in some areas/jobs it will be very prevalent and being updated with the latest trends/news/tools will be mandatory.

Sure, but that does not necessarily mean Serif has to add any of those AI powered tools to survive. The market for graphics apps is very large & diverse, so for example to some the appeal of a single native file format for a suite of relatively low cost, multi-platform apps & highly responsive product support will be enough to keep them buying & using Affinity for their work.