Footnotes/Endnotes

[Trevor A]

Seneca
Thank you.  I will attach the file.  The problem is on physical page 9, which is numbered (correctly) as v. I have added an extra carriage return after the first footnote, to reveal the line that needs to be deleted.  The carriage return has pushed the footnote text out of the footnote box, but after the intrusive line is removed, I will be able to delete the extra carriage return, and the footnotes will fit in the box again.  The line above footnote 1 is meant to be there.

Thank you for the assistance!

Old Bruce, thank you for tips, which I will use next time!

Trevor

Alexandrinus_NT.afpub

[ernie-f]

Hi, I have no problems to manipulate your lines, paragraphs or the hole document. I work with Windows.

[walt.farrell]

13 minutes ago, Trevor A said:

The problem is on physical page 9, which is numbered (correctly) as v. I have added an extra carriage return after the first footnote, to reveal the line that needs to be deleted.

Your problem is that your short line is within the Master Page layer on page 9, and cannot be edited (note the "x" at each end of the line in my screenshot).

Your immediate solution is to right-click on the Master Page layer in the Layers panel and choose Edit Detached. Then delete the line, and then click Finished in the orange bar at the top of the page.

Your long-term solution is to use paragraph decorations as suggested above, rather than making lines by hand

[Trevor A]

Ernie
Thank you.  I am using Windows, too.

Walt, thank you for this.  I had noted the two "x's", but didn't know how they had got there.  I will try to do what you have suggested.

Trevor

[Trevor A]

Walt

Thank you.  I have tried that, and it has (of course) worked.  I don't know, but I was sure that I had tried that before, but obviously not!

Everyone's comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Trevor

[Inspired Earth]

On 4/26/2021 at 3:49 PM, krillips said:

Lack of support for footnotes/endnotes and lack of ebook/html export kill this otherwise stellar app.

I agree.
I was about to buy Publisher (and Photo) a little over 60 minutes ago, and to get into using it instead of InDesign for book publishing. Thankfully (and sadly) I stumbled upon a comment about its lack of support for endnotes and footnotes, and for ePub export. That was whilst searching for InDesign / Publisher comparisons online. As many of those comparisons were from 2018 to 2020, I figured, "Oh, that was then ... surely by now they have implemented such a fundamental and critical feature ...".

In my attempt to prove that assumption right, I found this 30 page thread we're having this discussion on. Like many other publishers, I won't be buying Publisher for now. That likely means I won't be buying Affinity Photo either, as I need tight integration between the apps I am using for photo manipulation and desktop publishing (current PS and InD). Without footnotes and endnotes Affinity has basically cut out the entire book publishing industry. This nearly 3 year old 30 page forum thread seems to be testament to a possible lack of wisdom in that regard. But I guess they have their reasons.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Inspired Earth
corrections

[NaulisJakke]

5 hours ago, Inspired Earth said:

I agree.
I was about to buy Publisher (and Photo) a little over 60 minutes ago, and to get into using it instead of InDesign for book publishing. Thankfully (and sadly) I stumbled upon a comment about its lack of support for endnotes and footnotes, and for ePub export. That was whilst searching for InDesign / Publisher comparisons online. As many of those comparisons were from 2018 to 2020, I figured, "Oh, that was then ... surely by now they have implemented such a fundamental and critical feature ...".

In my attempt to prove that assumption right, I found this 30 page thread we're having this discussion on. Like many other publishers, I won't be buying Publisher for now. That likely means I won't be buying Affinity Photo either, as I need tight integration between the apps I am using for photo manipulation and desktop publishing (current PS and InD). Without footnotes and endnotes Affinity has basically cut out the entire book publishing industry. This nearly 3 year old 30 page forum thread seems to be testament to a possible lack of wisdom in that regard. But I guess they have their reasons.

Thank you, Inspired Earth, for an excellent summary. For a person like me, who has been a dweller inside this thread for those three years, it was strangely meditative to see someone with a fresh set of eyes having a peek at this thread and to be able to condense it all to such a tight package. I agree 100 % to what you said. 

[Trevor A]

You are indeed right.  I write academic articles and books, and there are normally footnotes on every page.  As I revise articles, the need for further footnotes arises, and WORD automatically re-numbers all subsequent footnotes both in the text and in the footnote area.

When I export from WORD to Publisher, all footnotes are ignored by Publisher and I have to put them in manually.  This involves more than adding superscript numerals in the text.  I then have to move the bottom of the text frame up and put a new frame beneath it for the footnotes, guessing the height needed and adjusting each text frame as I add the footnotes.  At least, that is the way that I have done it so far.

Then, in a later check of the text, I find that I need to add a footnote on an earlier page, and the whole chore starts again, as I have to renumber all subsequent footnotes manually both in the text and in the footnotes.  The automatic text flow (in the main body of the text) moves text to subsequent pages when I reduce the the size of the box for the main text, but this may push a line near the bottom of the page with a footnote onto the next page, with the results rippling through the document.  Of course, my footnote remains on the original page in the footnote text box where I placed it, so I have to move it manually to the next page, adjusting the height of the text box on that page to allow for the extra footnote - which can cause the problem to be repeated on a subsequent page or pages!

The chance of ending up with an error (a text note later in the chapter on the wrong page) is very high, and the time input required to do all these corrections manually can also be enormous.

I hope that someone at Affinity is reading these posts!

[Ralph]

... and to be boringly repetitive, the Serif package (PagePlus) that Affinity Publisher has replaced (for the benefit of Newbies!!), does it all extremely well.

Beautifully expressed Inspired Earth

[ernie-f]

What else can I say as a user?  Nothing it is all correctly recognized and said.  Serif must/should finally act and implement the footnote function.  I will wait until the summer holidays and if there is still no footnote function, repentantly return to Indesign or QuarkXpress.

[PatrickOfLondon]

43 minutes ago, Ralph said:

... and to be boringly repetitive, the Serif package (PagePlus) that Affinity Publisher has replaced (for the benefit of Newbies!!), does it all extremely well.

Yes, what a shame it can't still be bought from Serif (as it could until October 2019) as a low-cost, unsupported legacy product, by those for whom -- despite its "legacy" nature -- it would provide the functionality they need.

[NaulisJakke]

1 hour ago, Trevor A said:

You are indeed right.  I write academic articles and books, and there are normally footnotes on every page.  As I revise articles, the need for further footnotes arises, and WORD automatically re-numbers all subsequent footnotes both in the text and in the footnote area.

When I export from WORD to Publisher, all footnotes are ignored by Publisher and I have to put them in manually.  This involves more than adding superscript numerals in the text.  I then have to move the bottom of the text frame up and put a new frame beneath it for the footnotes, guessing the height needed and adjusting each text frame as I add the footnotes.  At least, that is the way that I have done it so far.

Then, in a later check of the text, I find that I need to add a footnote on an earlier page, and the whole chore starts again, as I have to renumber all subsequent footnotes manually both in the text and in the footnotes.  The automatic text flow (in the main body of the text) moves text to subsequent pages when I reduce the the size of the box for the main text, but this may push a line near the bottom of the page with a footnote onto the next page, with the results rippling through the document.  Of course, my footnote remains on the original page in the footnote text box where I placed it, so I have to move it manually to the next page, adjusting the height of the text box on that page to allow for the extra footnote - which can cause the problem to be repeated on a subsequent page or pages!

The chance of ending up with an error (a text note later in the chapter on the wrong page) is very high, and the time input required to do all these corrections manually can also be enormous.

I hope that someone at Affinity is reading these posts!

This would actually make a great Youtube video. A presenter with a straight face going thru a painstakingly detailed tutorial of how this is done step by step.  

[Trevor A]

Perhaps a suitable subject for Elaine Giles? 🙂

Seriously, I have found her videos extremely helpful.

[NaulisJakke]

5 minutes ago, Trevor A said:

Perhaps a suitable subject for Elaine Giles? 🙂

Seriously, I have found her videos extremely helpful.

Me too.

But, ironically enough, this is something that one could ask Serif to do themselves: if you are not going to implement foot/endnotes, show us a workaround yourselves instead of hiding behind other people’s backs.

[Petar Petrenko]

3 hours ago, Trevor A said:

You are indeed right.  I write academic articles and books, and there are normally footnotes on every page.  As I revise articles, the need for further footnotes arises, and WORD automatically re-numbers all subsequent footnotes both in the text and in the footnote area.

When I export from WORD to Publisher, all footnotes are ignored by Publisher and I have to put them in manually.  This involves more than adding superscript numerals in the text.  I then have to move the bottom of the text frame up and put a new frame beneath it for the footnotes, guessing the height needed and adjusting each text frame as I add the footnotes.  At least, that is the way that I have done it so far.

Then, in a later check of the text, I find that I need to add a footnote on an earlier page, and the whole chore starts again, as I have to renumber all subsequent footnotes manually both in the text and in the footnotes.  The automatic text flow (in the main body of the text) moves text to subsequent pages when I reduce the the size of the box for the main text, but this may push a line near the bottom of the page with a footnote onto the next page, with the results rippling through the document.  Of course, my footnote remains on the original page in the footnote text box where I placed it, so I have to move it manually to the next page, adjusting the height of the text box on that page to allow for the extra footnote - which can cause the problem to be repeated on a subsequent page or pages!

The chance of ending up with an error (a text note later in the chapter on the wrong page) is very high, and the time input required to do all these corrections manually can also be enormous.

I hope that someone at Affinity is reading these posts!

I would rather dig an olympic size swimming pool manually than dealing with footnotes in app that does not support them.

[Trevor A]

NaulisJakke

You are right!  Since Serif hosts this forum, I hope that they read what the people struggling with their programs say.

Petar

Very well put!  I would not even attempt to use Publisher for a regular academic book, with footnotes throughout.  The one that I have just finished reproduces 266 high-resolution images of an important ancient manuscript, one per page of the book, and each of those pages merely has a page number (supplied by the program) and various references without footnotes, supplied by me.  For this, Publisher was good.  My introduction is only about 12 pages long, and this has the footnotes that are necessary (bibliographical information on works cited, etc).  So dealing with this manually was possible - just.

Apart from such a specialist case as this, the use of Publisher for regular academic book publishing cannot be recommended.

[NaulisJakke]

This is so fascinating.

Amidst this 3-year long frustration I’ve grown into tremendously enjoying reading about people’s projects. It is awe-inspiring how deep the expertise - and love - of book making runs. This thread contains also ingenious and highly-enjoyable writing in itself.

Hence as a thought experiment it occurred to me: if there was a book about the absence of foot/endnotes, what would it look like? What would it read like? Would it be produced with Apub or some other software? Eitherway, it would be a fun creative challenge to mould the content of this thread to, say, a coffee table book.

[Trevor A]

What a good idea!  I feel that I lack the imagination/inspiration.  Perhaps it is something that you or another contributor would like to have a go at, as a gift to Serif/Affinity/other contributors. 🙃

[garrettm30]

We all agree: the lack of footnotes is not great. Serif also agrees, and they are working on changing that. We don’t need to say any more to convince them: they are already working on it.

 

I guess we need to have some reminder that footnotes are coming on every page now.

[NaulisJakke]

24 minutes ago, garrettm30 said:

We all agree: the lack of footnotes is not great. Serif also agrees, and they are working on changing that. We don’t need to say any more to convince them: they are already working on it.

 

I guess we need to have some reminder that footnotes are coming on every page now.

If I am not mistaken, this recent activity within this thread began - once again - with a newcomer who was astonished by the lack of foot/endnotes in Apub. Are you, garretm30, suggesting some kind of censorship for these people?

[Last Chance]

garrettm30 was also the instigator of this very thread. I have already migrated back to InDesign (earlier paid for, not subscription) as there are three upcoming projects that need footnotes. It is surprising how easily I could adapt back to InDesign & Photoshop, to a certain extent that it shows the shortcomings of APub/Photo.

[PatrickOfLondon]

I didn't infer any insinuation of "censorship" in garretm30's observations. I read them as merely a gently humorous reminder that the absence of the features in question, footnotes and endnotes, is already well known and well debated in this forum, so that continually making the same point in different ways becomes an arguably futile activity.

We all want Affinity Publisher to have the widest possible collection of features (and many of us continue to wish, currently in vain, that it could at least match the full set of features that PagePlus provided). We know, because Serif / Affinity have already told us on more than one occasion, that footnotes and endnotes will come along eventually. My present estimation is that "eventually" means in version 2.x.

Until then, when I need footnotes and endnotes, I will use a different product.

[NaulisJakke]

1 hour ago, PatrickOfLondon said:

I didn't infer any insinuation of "censorship" in garretm30's observations. I read them as merely a gently humorous reminder that the absence of the features in question, footnotes and endnotes, is already well known and well debated in this forum, so that continually making the same point in different ways becomes an arguably futile activity.

 

I don’t agree at all. Every single time as a newcomer has entered this forum, I have found a new angle to this discussion, because the projects and views of these newcomers are so diverse. Moreover and perhaps more importantly, PatrickOfLondon, you also dogde the actual question: are we really saying to those newcomers that they should just read and not write about their own experiences and insights? 

[PatrickOfLondon]

I regard this thread as a platform that was established for people to record their surprise and discontent with the omission from Affinity Publisher of footnote and endnote features, and to ask whether they would be included eventually.

That degree of surprise and discontent, and that question, has already been registered many times by various contributors to the thread, and Serif / Affinity have responded by indicating that they are well aware of these sentiments, and that they will in due course be including the features in the product.

With that in mind, to me it is nugatory to keep on making the same fundamental point — "the product doesn't have these features, and we wish it did" — over and over again, from however many different angles.

I don't view the thread as a platform for parading my personality, or making personalised accusations about people "hiding behind other people's backs", or "suggesting some kind of censorship", or "dodging the question", or for creating the basis of "a coffee table book". For those who may wish so to use the thread, I will leave it to them to use their time in that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NaulisJakke]

11 minutes ago, PatrickOfLondon said:

I regard this thread as a platform that was established for people to record their surprise and discontent with the omission from Affinity Publisher of footnote and endnote features, and to ask whether they would be included eventually.

That degree of surprise and discontent, and that question, has already been registered many times by various contributors to the thread, and Serif / Affinity have responded by indicating that they are well aware of these sentiments, and that they will in due course be including the features in the product.

With that in mind, to me it is nugatory to keep on making the same fundamental point — "the product doesn't have these features, and we wish it did" — over and over again, from however many different angles.

I don't view the thread as a platform for parading my personality, or making personalised accusations about people "hiding behind other people's backs", or "suggesting some kind of censorship", or "dodging the question", or for creating the basis of "a coffee table book". For those who may wish so to use the thread, I will leave it to them to use their time in that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, are you saying that I should stop writing to this forum?