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Locking layer contents


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46 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

P.S. Photopea can process Affinity files.

It can process the Affinity file format?

Or did you mean something else?

To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time.

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1 hour ago, chessboard said:

Why use workarounds

Because I probably want to proceed with a task now?
Look, I'm not that much interesting in moaning (although I do also, at times), I'm primarily interested in constructive solutions. Take them or leave them.

Of course, the other option is to be "offended" that it doesn't work exactly the way I want. Does it help the case in any way? I doubt that.

1 hour ago, chessboard said:

I find this Adobe-hate a bit strange

As far as Ill-frustrator is concerned, Adobe has deliberately taken my beloved Freehand from me, literally forcing me to "upgrade" to their own Ill-conceived tool. I won't forgive that easily. (And no, side-running a 20 years old PowerMac G4 just to use my Freehand in 2021 or attempting to make FH9 run in SheepShaver without crashing are definitely no viable "workarounds".)
But when it comes to InDesign and Photoshop, those are pretty excellent tools. Even Acrobat is essential, albeit pricey for what I actually need it. I just won't participate in the Schmadobe Subscription Scam. Much like many of us here in the Affinity Universe, I guess. :)

1 hour ago, chessboard said:

So where's the difference to AD?

The fact that you can intentionally select a locked layer/object in the Layers panel to make this selection visible on page/canvas, that is a feature in ADe.
Also that a locked status is not necessarily inherited by layer children is a feature.
It's a different approach/workflow.
Once I actually understood the idea, I began to see its benefits.

Whereas in AI CS5 (don't know about CC), you have to unlock an object first to select it. If you have locked a full group or a full layer, you have to unlock the parent(s) first to edit one of its children. This is a "workflow" that made me bang my head against a wall way too many times. Because to select just one child without affecting its siblings, I had to lock the other 99 siblings in that layer first. And then remember to unlock them and re-lock the parent…

~~~

But as already noted, I definitely wouldn't mind an option to switch the ADe locking behavior if needed. There are instances where the "all or nothing" mode would be very useful, like when applying "Select Same > […]" in ADe or "Find & Replace" in APu.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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2 hours ago, carl123 said:

It can process the Affinity file format?

Yes, even though it's mainly *.afphoto, which is what photopea does - photo editing.

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1 hour ago, loukash said:

Look, I'm not that much interesting in moaning (although I do also, at times), I'm primarily interested in constructive solutions. Take them or leave them.

Of course, the other option is to be "offended" that it doesn't work exactly the way I want. Does it help the case in any way? I doubt that.

But maybe you confused the meaning of this thread. It's not a "question" - how to replace the awkward non-locking of layers that Affinity is doing now, but a "requirement" to implement locking that would really lock.
And as requested by MEB (moderator), this is also a list of situations where complete locking is needed. So advice on how to replace and bypass improperly implemented locking is probably not entirely appropriate.

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.3.1.2217
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4 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

And as requested by MEB (moderator), this is also a list of situations where complete locking is needed.

Yep.
Aaand… lo & behold, I have even contributed to this list:
 

1 hour ago, loukash said:

There are instances where the "all or nothing" mode would be very useful, like when applying "Select Same > […]" in ADe or "Find & Replace" in APu.

 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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2 minutes ago, loukash said:

Yep.
Aaand… lo & behold, I have even contributed to this list:

Great - it's also appreciated 🙂

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2 hours ago, loukash said:

Because I probably want to proceed with a task now?
Look, I'm not that much interesting in moaning (although I do also, at times), I'm primarily interested in constructive solutions. Take them or leave them.

Right. And that's why I am not using AD in my daily work, but other softwares that can do the job without workarounds. I don't stick to any software just because of sympathy or even deeper emotions.
But I don't think, that "take it or leave it" should be the motto of any software publisher. Making customers leave (or never come "aboard") can't be a company's goal.

2 hours ago, loukash said:

As far as Ill-frustrator is concerned, Adobe has deliberately taken my beloved Freehand from me, literally forcing me to "upgrade" to their own Ill-conceived tool. I won't forgive that easily.

Too much emotion in this in my opinion. I have never "loved" any software nor felt like a fan. I've been working with Freehand since the mid 90's, but I never saw where it was so much superior to Illustrator. It was more a question of loyalty and aversion (just as with MacOS vs. Windows), not really featurebased. I had no big problems to switch over to Illustrator without really missing things.
Unlike today, where I miss too much to switch entirely to AD.

2 hours ago, loukash said:

Whereas in AI CS5 (don't know about CC), you have to unlock an object first to select it. If you have locked a full group or a full layer, you have to unlock the parent(s) first to edit one of its children. This is a "workflow" that made me bang my head against a wall way too many times. Because to select just one child without affecting its siblings, I had to lock the other 99 siblings in that layer first. And then remember to unlock them and re-lock the parent…

Yes, inheritance (of the lock) makes things sometimes a little bit more complicate. But I don't see a need to lock all 99 siblings to work with a special layer in a group. You can still select a locked group on the canvas in Illustrator via the context menu and delock it. Than just isolate the group and you can work with any of its objects without a need to lock the others. Leave the isolation mode afterwards and lock the group again. That can all be done on the canvas and by menus. You even don't need to go into the layer panel. No point for Affinity's concept here.

But to close the discussion here, I see that you also see the need for more options to lock a layer in AD. That's all what the "moaners" want to.

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10 minutes ago, chessboard said:

But I don't think, that "take it or leave it" should be the motto of any software publisher.

I wasn't implying it's Serif's motto.
This is my motto here on the forums when it comes to offering immediate solutions to get a job done.

Been there done that myself, many times:
I was stuck, visited the forums, found that someone already had an idea that would get me moving on, and my immediate problem could be solved.
It's give and take.
That's all.

15 minutes ago, chessboard said:

I see that you also see the need for more options to lock a layer in AD.

Yep, as long as it doesn't take any existing functionality away, I will rarely oppose anything that adds more options. :)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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On 4/22/2021 at 11:17 AM, Pšenda said:

Just to show how the web Photopea approaches to locking layers and their content, where the user has a choice of "3" options/types of locks.
image.png.c936c2b4b66be3bb766035b593e0a14c.png image.png.08abf6b97b3851bfb1ee3a917cfe281f.png image.png.f23070476cf5b1149d718d94db614c1b.png image.png.668e5dcb11edbd36db0c33f0df07b8cd.png

image.png.dc5df829b31b685d8dcfc769a2b8c2ab.png

 

P.S. Photopea can process Affinity files.

Man, how I miss locking transparency on a per layer basis. Sure, I can do this by locking any edits in the Alpha channel in the Channels panel, but locking the transparency on individual layers I have always found very convenient. I hope the devs add all of those locking options in Affinity someday.

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3 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

how I miss locking transparency on a per layer basis. Sure, I can do this by locking any edits in the Alpha channel in the Channels panel, but locking the transparency on individual layers I have always found very convenient.

Hm…
Anything wrong with …

aph_protect_alpha.png.02ee731200a771e98574a7339a56f3b4.png

… available per brush tool basis?
Take that, Schmotofopp CS5.1!

~~~

Speaking of which…

Just for fun I have opened a JPEG image in Schmotofopp.
It opens as a "locked" background layer. With a lock symbol in the Layers panel, of course.

Is it locked as in:
"Don't you dare to change any of my pixels you fool!"
???

Haha!
Kids, you gotta be kiddin'.

Nope.

You've got to to convert the "Background" layer to a "Layer" first to make it fully lockable!

And when you've done that, and then you accidentally click on the canvas, you're about to have some fun with clicking away a frickin' modal window before you can do anything else:

ps_modal_alert_window.png.2bfccf67b2c33d9be7f20553a34c974f.png

Soo…

As far as I'm concerned, I'll take the Affinity approach over this nonsense any time, thankyouverymuch. :P

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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3 hours ago, loukash said:

 

Hm…
Anything wrong with …

aph_protect_alpha.png.02ee731200a771e98574a7339a56f3b4.png

… available per brush tool basis?
Take that, Schmotofopp CS5.1!

~~~

Speaking of which…

Just for fun I have opened a JPEG image in Schmotofopp.
It opens as a "locked" background layer. With a lock symbol in the Layers panel, of course.

Is it locked as in:
"Don't you dare to change any of my pixels you fool!"
???

Haha!
Kids, you gotta be kiddin'.

Nope.

You've got to to convert the "Background" layer to a "Layer" first to make it fully lockable!

And when you've done that, and then you accidentally click on the canvas, you're about to have some fun with clicking away a frickin' modal window before you can do anything else:

ps_modal_alert_window.png.2bfccf67b2c33d9be7f20553a34c974f.png

Soo…

As far as I'm concerned, I'll take the Affinity approach over this nonsense any time, thankyouverymuch. :P

Why are you being so aggressive?

Yes, I know of that feature. I barely use it however, since I use the Channels panel to achieve that same effect. It's not that I dislike this particular feature, but there are actual limitations to this approach compared to my typical workflow. 

It is true that Protect Alpha works on many brush tools, but it does not work on tools like the Smudge Brush Tool, Blur Tool, etc. A very common thing I do while painting is locking the alpha so I can smudge the painting without ruining my silhouette. This method only works when disabling all edits of the Alpha channel in the Channels panel and I am more than thankful for this feature. One thing I praise Affinity for is its Channels panel, since it is absolutely excellent for painting, especially compared to Photoshop that does not have these features built into the UI for this panel. 

That said, locking individual layers like transparency is still a feature I want, regardless of how good the Channels panel is. I just like to be reassured that any layer I decide to lock will behave the same way when I get back to it. Silhouette painting is one area where I think locking alphas on individual layers excels at and having all tools with alpha lock available is always nice to have.

Also, being able to lock the alpha layer allows me to bypass annoying bugs like these for the Smudge Brush Tool that I reported 2 years ago:

Personally I don't see how adding these lock features would in any way detract from Affinity as a whole. I think Affinity can be flexible enough to handle more than one approach to these types of workflows. Photoshop does have its quirks as well as Affinity, but I think both programs could learn a thing or two from each other, in this case Affinity implementing more features in the Layers panel that Photoshop has.

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Just now, Frozen Death Knight said:

Why are you being so aggressive?

Wasn't meant as a personal attack. My apologies if it came over like that. :)

3 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Personally I don't see how adding these lock features would in any way detract from Affinity as a whole. I think Affinity can be flexible enough to handle more than one approach to these types of workflows.

I fully agree.
I just wanted to point out that Adobe's workflows (at least to my knowledge up to CS5.5) are not the "holy grail" and end of it all. There are many things that I, for one, definitely don't miss, as I have sarcastically outlined above. ;)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
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Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.3.1.2217
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.3.1.2217
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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+1 for completely locked layers -- I for one cant be bothered to even find out what this partially locked layer even locks.

I really need "locked" layer to not be able to draw on - when forgetting to switch between layers, drawing different parts. So frustrating when some detail is the on wrong layer, and noticing it later after drawing more stuff, and editing that detail becomes impossible.

 

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33 minutes ago, Nils-Petter Olsen said:

I for one cant be bothered to even find out what this partially locked layer even locks

Basically nothing at all. The lock should protect against selecting a layer through the canvas / document, but as can be seen here, this is not the case at all.

The concept of locking in Affinity is simply unfortunate and non-functional, and it is better not to use the lock at all - at least the user will not rely on "locking", and will not be very unpleasantly surprised and disappointed 😞

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.3.1.2217
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.2506.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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22 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Basically nothing at all. The lock should protect against selecting a layer through the canvas / document, but as can be seen here, this is not the case at all.

 

Oh, okay, I see. It would actually have some use if it worked as supposed to. I still really suspect a full layer lock would be more useful for most people though. It certainly would be a lot easier for people just starting out to understand. And consistent with the non-destructive idea.


Ideally, as I think someone has pointed out already, both partial and full lock should be implemented. With full lock as the default mode. If of course both modes worked in a predictable manner.

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Why is this controversial? 😆 Imagine if you bought a "lock" which allowed you to get inside and "take," (aka, DELETE) the contents of whatever it is supposed to be locking! What a joke. This mechanism is horrible, and no this is not really something open to interpretation or definition. Locked means LOCKED, not Locked* (terms and conditions apply)... this isn't a legal contract, it's a tool. And if it's using metaphors such as LOCK, then DAMMIT LOCK THE DAMN OBJECT!!!! 😆

Seriously though, is this a bad joke on the part of Serif/Devs?

Specially in Outline view, this current behavior is very counter intuitive... I was missing objects that I had deleted accidentally after selecting OTHER objects (who's boundary was outside of the current zoom factor to see) to delete in Outline view... because I selected a "locked" layer! Traditionally the ONLY way to deal with a locked layer is thru the layers panel. @Serif can this behavior be set via a Preference setting, please?

 

2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Ventura 13.6

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