Jump to content
You must now use your email address to sign in [click for more info] ×

Recommended Posts

On 6/18/2023 at 1:59 AM, LuBre said:

Can you give me a reason why companies still hire professionals instead of pushing one button to generate a full website/ecommerce with multiple tools, languages, billing dashboards and shipping tools? That's what you can do with Shopify, which is just one of the many available premade tools that requre zero knowledge. They are dumb-easy tools that anyone can use. They are exactly what you describe in your AI comments: an automated tool that does the job of a professional for a cheaper price, without requiring any experience of any kind. Push a button, get the product. So, why do companies still hire developers?

Of course...

... company (customer) specific needs and customizations, overall better scalability also in terms of future add-ons, upscaling and changes, better reflection of the customers corporal identity, free choice of underlayed databases and other invoved software technologies and systems, as connections to possible app-servers, DAMs, ...and so on, also individual customer base long time support ... etc. etc. - So all things which can't be done that good and flexible with such more "closed modular system like Shopify". - In my dev working domain we tend to use instead more things like Shopware and SAP Hybris, but we (...aka the colleagues who do build more shop systems, as I do more CMS-systems related works...) usually do not develop for small or single/few people, so little companies and the like. All in all our customer base has other orders of magnitude, as have the customer specific software solution needs, so the whole of course also plays overall in much different and huger other price segments here.

But those development things here are probably and overall not that good comparison examples, in the context of AI and graphics design tools usages.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Of course...


Indeed, you nailed it.

AI can't entirely replace humans. That's like arguing that in a near future architects will lose their jobs because the AI will be able to design and render and entire house from scratch, program the required tools/robots to build it, order the materials, maybe even print the money to keep the economy going on.

An AI content aware plugin/tool will be soon mandatory in any photo-editing software. I am sure we will soon that stuff in the upcoming releases of iOS and Android too (on a side note, Google will be releasing an AI-powered update on Andorid, this summer). It would be a shame to lose Affinity in this race.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This pretty well sums up my feelings.  

However I know I'm in a minority, so what realistic options are out there?   One that may work is for Affinity to do a deal with one of the smaller companies that has a decent AI function and offer it as a plug-in for the Affinity Suite.

Retina iMac (4K display, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) OS X 10.11.6  Capture One 10.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

Of course...

... company (customer) specific needs and customizations, overall better scalability also in terms of future add-ons, upscaling and changes, better reflection of the customers corporal identity, free choice of underlayed databases and other invoved software technologies and systems, as connections to possible app-servers, DAMs, ...and so on, also individual customer base long time support ... etc. etc. - So all things which can't be done that good and flexible with such more "closed modular system like Shopify".

+1000

Before I retired I worked for our regional electric utility's IT department. We had a continual stream of "one button fixes" from vendors who had no understanding of the inherent complexity in our "real world". Between mission-critical 20 year-old legacy systems, cloud, databases of all sorts, security / monitoring platforms and a thousand other vertical / niche products (don't even say "backups") there was no way a canned solution could be a solution. And that doesn't even touch CIP or other government-mandated security / infrastructure requirements. Our official mantra was "Configuration, not customization", but of course that was just a goal. In the Real World plenty of stuff was HEAVILY customized and held together with tribal-knowledge technological glue often invisible outside its small home group. It made DR exercises interesting to say the least. At any rate, as I said a canned "solution" is no solution.

Len
Affinity Photo 2.x | QCAD 3.x | FastStone | SpyderX Pro | FOSS:  ART darktable  XnView  RawTherapee  GIMP  Inkscape  G'MIC  LibreOffice
Windows 11 on a 16 GB, Ryzen 5700 8-core laptop with a cheesy little embedded AMD GPU

Canon T8i / 850D | Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro | Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM
...vainly looking for landscapes in Nolandscapeland        https://www.flickr.com/photos/14015058@N07/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, billtils said:

This pretty well sums up my feelings.  

However I know I'm in a minority, so what realistic options are out there?   One that may work is for Affinity to do a deal with one of the smaller companies that has a decent AI function and offer it as a plug-in for the Affinity Suite.


No option, at the moment. But I already avoided buying Affinity 2.0 because it doesn't offer much advantages compared to 1.0. And now it's even less appealing, to be honest. Affinity will still be cheaper than Adobe, of course. But sometimes it's not just about the money. I am honestly ready to pay 12€/month for Photoshop, if their tools can drastically reduce my working time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've tried photoshop generative fill and it was enjoyable.
however, the process is done in the cloud with the trained model from millions of adobe stock photos.

if generative fill really happens in affinity (as core features), it would likely turn Affinity into a subscription-based service, right?

Not sure the majority of users will be happy with it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, bayustudio said:

I've tried photoshop generative fill and it was enjoyable.
however, the process is done in the cloud with the trained model from millions of adobe stock photos.

I can't see any way this could be done entirely locally; plus there is the issue of usage rights & who is responsible for that.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, bayustudio said:

if generative fill really happens in affinity (as core features), it would likely turn Affinity into a subscription-based service, right? Not sure the majority of users will be happy with it.


It's not an easy way to get out of this super-sticky situation.

Affinity could add a a "pay per plugin" model where you can buy a specific plugin but the price should be very low. You can have Photoshop + Lightroom for 12$/month, so... Yeah, not a good situation at all.

I hope they can find a way, any way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LuBre said:

Affinity could add a a "pay per plugin" model where you can buy a specific plugin but the price should be very low.

I'm not at all sure the current Affinity plug in architecture (which basically just supports a subset of PS style filters) could support AI features like generative fill, so I suspect it would take a major rewrite to implement that.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, R C-R said:

I'm not at all sure the current Affinity plug in architecture (which basically just supports a subset of PS style filters) could support AI features like generative fill, so I suspect it would take a major rewrite to implement that.


I guess so, yes. I'll be honest: knowing they're working on "something" would be enough, at least for me. I am not in a hurry, I do not "need" the AI tool tomorrow. It's just about the vision and the upcoming months/year, that's it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, LuBre said:

I'll be honest: knowing they're working on "something" would be enough, at least for me.

They have made it quite clear in many different posts that they will not publicly discuss any details at all of their future plans unless/until it at least makes it into customer betas, & that this is because they do not want to raise any false expectations about what or when something will be added, or in what form it will be implemented if it is.

This is not unusual in the software industry; many companies have similar policies.

So when they say something like 'no plans at this time' that is pretty much all you will get from them.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am absolutely sure that in a few years all companies in the graphics industry will be using artificial intelligence in their products.
 

24" iMAC Apple M1 chip, iPad 8, MACOS Sonoma & iPadOS, Affinity V2-Universallizenz 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bayustudio said:

I've tried photoshop generative fill and it was enjoyable.
however, the process is done in the cloud with the trained model from millions of adobe stock photos.

if generative fill really happens in affinity (as core features), it would likely turn Affinity into a subscription-based service, right?

Well there are still apps which don't need/use an internet connection and so access to their implementers servers, in order to perform some AI based functions like cut out of objects, making more precise subject selections and so on. - The whole highly depends on how well pre-trained and accurate certain reused neural network algorithms are here, how they've been implemented and also for what kind of data models and those processing they have been initially concipied.

Thus if you always would need some internet connection and huger net based data transfers, it will make the whole very internet computing dependent and then you can't use such functions and services on Robinson Cruso Island, where you probably won't have any or good internet access (...being far from the shot). - Another point is no overall granted data security here, as your transfered data will mostly flow then into the service vendor's AI based still learning engine pool and so feed it, as does everyone else data. If the vendors servers are hacked (which is common usage nowadays) your possibly sensible data might fall into other third-party hands.

All in all it's a difficult to handle theme, as ceratin things and features can be helpful, but also bear some general risks then. - Thus the best would probably be, if a software's  AI learning curve would be handled entirely locally on your computer, without any need to have some internet connections to external servers. That in turn would only be possible for local self-contained AI functions and so for non-generic, no chat like systems.

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Well there are still apps which don't need/use an internet connection and so access to their implementers servers, in order to perform some AI based functions like cut out of objects, making more precise subject selections and so on.

But are there any that can do generative fill without a connection?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But are there any that can do generative fill without a connection?

I think you can easily answer that yourself, if you make yourself clear what (an arbitrary) generative fill would mean here!

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

I think you can easily answer that yourself, if you make yourself clear what (an arbitrary) generative fill would mean here!

I have no firsthand knowledge of how it works in PS so I am asking for someone who does have firsthand experience to explain how it works in that app & if it requires web access.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, albertkinng said:

That's not helping with productivity. Having an image fixed effortlessly is enabling your procrastination.


Only if you're a procrastinator by nature, in which case anything will be bad for your productivity. Even a simple Google search. Procrastination in general is a very bad habit. This AI tool doesn't have anything to do with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

I have no firsthand knowledge of how it works in PS so I am asking for someone who does have firsthand experience to explain how it works in that app & if it requires web access.

I've already included above the word arbitrary (...whatever, any subject) for you there, so that you can imagine that for generating whatever contents fill means here, that it then has to have knowledge about whatever subject is concrete here. - In other words it's knowledge database has to know what specific defined subjects are, how they look and how they have to be included in some fitting manner into your local doc-image context.

So as you theoretical may can ask for whatever sort of subject here, it would logically need to have a pretty huge own image database of whatever subjects in xxx variations. And in cases it doesn't have already own such subjects, it may have to look otherwhere on the net for the ...by you specified/defined subjects... in order to see what those are and how to incorporate those then into it's own learning procedure database context.

So for being able to really generating arbitrary defined subjects (...without having it to say sorry I don't know what that is, since that's actually not part of my [limited] knowledge DB...) it would need to have an internet connection!

See quite theme related ...

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

So for being able to really generating arbitrary defined subjects (...without having to say sorry I don't know what that is, since that's actually not part of my [limited] knowledge DB...) it would need to have an internet connection!

Well, if the subjects really were arbitrary (IOW, chosen at random or by chance), then this would be of little use.

Regardless, can I assume the long & short of it is you personally do not know of any app that could do this without an internet connection?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If these 20 examples don't make you seriously think about the deep impact this AI tool has on the indusrty... I honestly don't know what to say.

There are a few less impressive but most of them are just incredbile (the guy on the mountains, the boy on the sand, etc).

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Well, if the subjects really were arbitrary (IOW, chosen at random or by chance), then this would be of little use.

Don't know what that should mean here, aka pro or cons an internet connection?

37 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Regardless, can I assume the long & short of it is you personally do not know of any app that could do this without an internet connection?

As I already tried to explain, those apps who can deal with chat based written or spoken Q/A based I/O (such a also learning & growing communication model) and then should also be able to generate arbitrary (whatever you tell them) contents, do need huge server based processing and DBs, since they are using huge AI models which would sooner or later blow up the resources of a common local computer system here.

No I don't know of any local ready/final (right out of the box) to use generative system, only some dev based projects where you start to reuse some AI frameworks in order to implement such systems. For the later you start and test locally until the overall capacities would exceed your local dev envirenment, where you then will have to go the distributed env way. - Think of it in a similar fashion like let's say, trying to have/hold all the whole Amazon shop contents then locally on your iMac in a still fluid workable, accessable and growable manner!

 

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, LuBre said:

If this 20 examples don't make you seriously think about the deep impact this AI tool has on the indusrty... I honestly don't know what to say.

It does get me thinking, in part about how much of the user input when using this tool is being sent back to Adobe & what they will do with it, for better or worse. Considering the potential for misrepresentation of real world occurrences for less than benevolent purposes, I'm also wondering how much backlash & resistance there might be to using it at all, the increasing demand that should be regulated, & by whom.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Don't know what that should mean here, aka pro or cons an internet connection?

That has nothing to do with the Internet, just with "arbitrary" in the usual sense of random, by chance, not intrinsic to, etc. -- IOW, the first definition at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary.

So maybe just semantics?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.