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How does AP compare with Clip Studio Paint and Corel Painter and other painting software

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14 hours ago, Cecil said:

Catalina 10.15, I sent them, Humble a message; however, no reply.  Corel Painter 2019, on website is compabile, some issues with Sidecar and tablet.  I will wait and see if they do reply. I purchased using the Amazon link, hoping if I had a problem, they could or would assist.

I had to dig around on the Humble Bundle website a bit but finally found this page in the support section. According to that, Corel Painter 2019 is compatible only with Mac OS versions OS X 10.11 through 10.13.

PhotoMirage, PaintShop Pro Ultimate, & Pinnacle Studio 23 Ultimate are windows only. ParticleShop is compatible only with Mac OS 10.10 through 10.12. Gravit Designer PRO is compatible with "Sierra or later" but it is listed as "1 year," whatever that means.

So from that it would seem that for most Mac users running any recent version of the Mac OS this bundle does not offer much. :(


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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2 hours ago, R C-R said:

Gravit Designer PRO is compatible with "Sierra or later" but it is listed as "1 year," whatever that means.

When Corel acquired GravitDesigner which was free for years, they turn it into a Pro version by taking some features from the still available free version, added to a "Pro-verson" and go subscription; so 99$ is 1 year for that version (only works when connected to the internet).

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3 hours ago, R C-R said:

I had to dig around on the Humble Bundle website a bit but finally found this page in the support section. According to that, Corel Painter 2019 is compatible only with Mac OS versions OS X 10.11 through 10.13.

PhotoMirage, PaintShop Pro Ultimate, & Pinnacle Studio 23 Ultimate are windows only. ParticleShop is compatible only with Mac OS 10.10 through 10.12. Gravit Designer PRO is compatible with "Sierra or later" but it is listed as "1 year," whatever that means.

So from that it would seem that for most Mac users running any recent version of the Mac OS this bundle does not offer much. :(

I would had appreciated “fool” why did you purchase reply, thank you for your donation.  I had a gut feeling this was wrong, my gut hurts, in so many ways.


Cecil - North Carolina

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB. iPad Pro 10.5.

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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10 minutes ago, Cecil said:

I would had appreciated “fool” why did you purchase reply, thank you for your donation.  I had a gut feeling this was wrong, my gut hurts, in so many ways.

I know what you mean. Humble Bundle seems to be much more focused on offering products for Windows users than for Mac users. Some of the offerings are 'badged' with the Apple logo as well as the Windows one but the Painter bundle was not & it was not easy to find the link to the compatibility page.

Also, buried in the Terms of Service is a clause that basically says it is the user's responsibility to be aware of the system requirements for any of the products bought through the site, that there may be additional fees required to register the products, & so on. That isn't unreasonable but they could be more up front about it.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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22 hours ago, Cecil said:

Catalina 10.15, I sent them, Humble a message; however, no reply.

Don't want to arouse false hopes but you might want to check if this holds true (the link below is only to the Painter user forum, not the Humble Bundle site):

Stephen

I have heard that Humble Bundle now has the updated/Catalina compatible installer on their website, might be worth giving the latest a try...let us know if it works!

https://painterfactory.com/painter_product_discussion/f/got-a-question-technical-issue-bug-report-for-the-painter-team/30375/cannot-install-painter-2019-on-macos-catalina

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43 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Don't want to arouse false hopes but you might want to check if this holds true (the link below is only to the Painter user forum, not the Humble Bundle site):

Stephen

I have heard that Humble Bundle now has the updated/Catalina compatible installer on their website, might be worth giving the latest a try...let us know if it works!

https://painterfactory.com/painter_product_discussion/f/got-a-question-technical-issue-bug-report-for-the-painter-team/30375/cannot-install-painter-2019-on-macos-catalina

As of yesterday, no.


Cecil - North Carolina

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB. iPad Pro 10.5.

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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2 minutes ago, Cecil said:

As of yesterday, no.

As that quoted response is from 3 hours ago, perhaps Humble Bundle updated their site today.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.514 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.514 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.518 Beta

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Just now, walt.farrell said:

As that quoted response is from 3 hours ago, perhaps Humble Bundle updated their site today.

Walt, I checked before posting.  If they did, it’s hidden from view, support or instructions.


Cecil - North Carolina

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB. iPad Pro 10.5.

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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43 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

As that quoted response is from 3 hours ago, perhaps Humble Bundle updated their site today.

Corel, not Humble, provided be a new download DMG to load the Painter 2019 Free Trial.  I was able to use the Product Key provided by Humble to load and register.  I was not interested in the other products. Link that works for macOS 10.15:

https://www.corel.com/akdlm/6763/downloads/free/trials/Painter/2019/CorelPainter2019.dmg


Cecil - North Carolina

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB. iPad Pro 10.5.

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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Corel Painter is PRIME example, $229/$179 upgrade from 2019 to 2020, dollar value of Serif products.


Cecil - North Carolina

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB. iPad Pro 10.5.

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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7 hours ago, Cecil said:

Corel Painter is PRIME example, $229/$179 upgrade from 2019 to 2020, dollar value of Serif products

Their campaigns might be a bit odd and sporadic (e.g., i upgraded from version 2018 as they currently show an offer when you close the app; perhaps they do not show it in context of recently registered apps) but I have upgraded every now and then starting from early versions and do not think that I have ever paid more then 100 euro (or USD) for the upgrade.

And older completely legal versions can occasionally be found as kinds of offers Humble Bundle had. I do not think they have a particularly strict upgrade eligibility policy, either, and as they offer both Windows and macOS versions at the same price, there is some benefit for users like myself.

 

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Please before you wade into Painter, as a software junkie can I suggest you look at Rebelle3, Artrage, and Painstorm, all great programs built on modern coding and designed by actual artists, and in reference to your original post you can't go too far wrong with Krita either.

I would say that AP and AD are about as good at brush based art as their Adobe equivalents, which means they are a bit of a struggle but they can do the job if you have the pure will to fight through, but there is a reason all concept art looks the same.

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2 hours ago, crunchysqueak said:

I would say that AP and AD are about as good at brush based art as their Adobe equivalents, which means they are a bit of a struggle but they can do the job if you have the pure will to fight through, but there is a reason all concept art looks the same.

And still, PS is the absolute concept art industry standard, at least in games. One better go for it if going for a job in the industry.  So, in a way, for the same reason, yep, Photo can be used just the same.

Rebelle is fine if you don't need to paint on 20k x 20k pixels canvases (for bigger format printing than A4 300dpi, etc). Same issue with Paintstorm, which indeed has the limit by software . And till recently, did not even had a text tool, and like happens with krita, the text tool, and other image editing features, are painful to use in those... Illustration often requires a bit of everything, not to mention that most freelancers, we do a bit of everything, including graphic design, UI, textures, retouch, etc. As u can't always depend only on nice illustration projects. And game art often requires a lot of what an image editor like Photo provides.

Now, about Art Rage, I'd be more inclined to vote for it (and Expresii, for what I have been able to dig about it, although is quite a more specific/specialized tool, even among already niche tools like these painting apps are).

But yeah, Expresii's author IS an artist (and seems a good one), Art Rage's author (if anyone was able and lucky to read his famous and revealing/great reddit post about his whole story in developing software for artists) is an artist, and also wanted to make tools for artists : They understand the deals and the issues.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Hello, I’m not a industry pro and I bought CSP and Affinity Photo. I usually color scanned drawings (ink or pencil) and I work in A3 "big" size (I am a comics artist and a page can be 50 cm big) . With my old gamer PC 8Go Ram, Affinity has big problems to manage such a size in 300dpi. CSP has better management of memory. And I think CSP is very ergonomic and you can customize a lot of tools and shortcut (the selection tools are the best I met). But CSP does not manage CYMK and it’s something I need for professional printing. And for some reason, I prefer Daum brushes in Affinity Photo.

 

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I suspect something is going on there with your hardware, or more likely your OS configuration or status, as while yep, CSP is crazily good handling/painting over large files,  an A3 canvas size at 300 DPI, definitely comfortable for painting and drawing in Affinity Photo in my machine, an old i7 860 , 8GB RAM, so, first generation, really old (arcane) and I have zero issues with a size like that (you need to use the brush stabilizer feature, tho!). Unless you are using a very large number of layers (which can be avoided in 98% of the projects). A Windows poorly configured or maintained can be almost 50% less performing...

But yep, CSP is very good in its strongest areas. Its brush system is second to none. It has CMYK, btw, just not the fine tuning of it,  its handling and export in the way you have it in Affinity Photo, which is at a higher level in those matters. Daub brushes in Photo I believe have like an extra dimension/variation compared to CSP's... don't quote me on that, but someone explained this to me not long ago... Even so, I do fake all sort of artistic styles with even just round brushes, so that would not be for me a very strong point. CSP's brush system has some key advantages.  I've done with it both comic style inking to deep detail, as well as full illustrations, realistic painting.

In the end, I firmly believe that (leaving out vector based illustrators and graphic designers, who don't really need CSP) almost any 2D artist, whether a comic artist, non vector illustrator, game artist, concept artist or whatever the flavor of digital painter or matte painter... gets a lot of benefit in having both CSP and Affinity Photo purchased and installed. IMO is absolutely not one instead of the other. And of course, would be ridiculous to consider an issue the cost of both together (at least in first and "second" world) for any professional of those areas, but what is more, I even realize that ANY hobby would cost more than what you need for this: literally these two apps (the sum is around 100 bucks) and a 100 bucks tablet like the Deco 03 or Pro from XP-Pen, or any battery-free pen , medium size tablet from Huion. As I assume for other reasons , any half serious hobbyist and definitely any pro, has (hopefully) a desktop or a laptop.  Heck,  or any average Jane/Joe. Almost any hobby (sports, traveling, etc) is way more expensive. This investment can last for at least 3 years (if not 5, at least) until you need new features.  And the drawing tablet, am having 3 absolutely intact and 100% working after 10 years. Divided in years the cost is ridiculous.  About learning two apps : The more the merrier. It empowers the brain for faster future learning and adaptability : proven fact.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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3 hours ago, lian00 said:

But CSP does not manage CYMK and it’s something I need for professional printing.

CSP EX handles also CMYK and has devices for commercial printing (but is also significantly more expensive -- though they often offer it with significant discount to owners of CSP Paint PRO).

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Actually you can work in CMYK mode in the pro version. The only big issue I found by having the PRO (I don't care about  the extra 3D features, neither for exporting to an epub format, longer animations, or animation at all, or handling it all as a publication (for that matter I'd might just use Affinity Publisher))  and not the EX is that in the pro you cannot import a CMYK PSD with multiple layers (you can a flattened one). I mean, you can, but I believe it flattens it all to one layer. You can still deal with it somehow. And is only an issue if working with clients providing you not only a PSD as only possibility, but also already as a CMYK file, which is not really common (I usually am the one to be exporting to CMYK IF needed, and as a last step. I work in RGB most of the time). I have not looked at it deeply (as Affinity Photo covers all this greatly), but it does also seem way more limited in terms of conversions and handling this color mode (maybe only in the PRO version). But this is not the only image editing feature that I miss in CSP in my projects, versus using sth like A. Photo or PS. That's why I believe they're good companions (the brush system in CSP is still better).


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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The CYMK in CSP Pro is very strange. I made colors for comics for an editor who asked for no black in the colors. In CYMK, I use color sliders to get 0% of black. But you pick a dark color created this way and paint, you can see in color sliders that the color contains black ! So I cannot trust at all CYMK for this usage. I will have a look at CSP Ex.

@SrPx I am very confident about my computer as I take care of it. I don’t meet this memory problem with Corel Painter I just tested.

 

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2 hours ago, SrPx said:

Actually you can work in CMYK mode in the pro version.

Ok, based on your description it does not appear that Pro actually differs from EX in terms of color handling in anything else (just the PSD layer support). CSP (EX) is nothing like Affinity Photo or Publisher in areas of color handling and creating a publication for commercial printing, so there is no point in upgrading because of these features if one already owns Affinity Publisher.

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2 hours ago, lian00 said:

The CYMK in CSP Pro is very strange. I made colors for comics for an editor who asked for no black in the colors. In CYMK, I use color sliders to get 0% of black. But you pick a dark color created this way and paint, you can see in color sliders that the color contains black ! So I cannot trust at all CYMK for this usage. I will have a look at CSP Ex.

@SrPx I am very confident about my computer as I take care of it. I don’t meet this memory problem with Corel Painter I just tested.

 

Is not solely one thing that happens to CSP. I remember versions of Inkscape, Photoshop, and some others having similar issues, specially with the sliders and then picking a sample, or when saving, etc. It usually tended to be a matter of using tricks. Sometimes it is the case of how the eyedropper works in each app.  I had similar issues in other packages to ensure full 100% K (black) for crisp and small text, and not any other color in the mix. And in several cases was a matter of using the app ONLY in certain (even if counter intuitive) way. 

This is one of the kind of reasons why I'm a bit alone in some conversations when I insist that for actual client work, you end up preferring a full image editor (like Affinity Photo or Photoshop) with a brush system, rather than an specialized painting (as fancy and cool they are, I keep seeing them only as useful companions) tool without ....all...without everything you need for actual files preparation and being up to current market requirements.

That said, I have exported CMYK files from CSP without issues (but every project does have different requirements). The issue that you mention, I don't doubt it could be happening.

My mention about the hardware was because I have painted with a canvas surely twice that size, fluidly, in Photo. That's why I was surprised, as I have a terrible machine. Also, a lot (a high percentage but not all) of people coming here with performance problems, in many of the cases you end up knowing they use a laptop with integrated GPU, and very low powered cpu (which on paper is even lower, as a laptop cannot really cool well the circuits, and performance is always lower in benchmarks). It could have been this case, but it isn't.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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35 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Ok, based on your description it does not appear that Pro actually differs from EX in terms of color handling in anything else (just the PSD layer support). CSP (EX) is nothing like Affinity Photo or Publisher in areas of color handling and creating a publication for commercial printing, so there is no point in upgrading because of these features if one already owns Affinity Publisher.

For those reasons alone, nope....

One workflow I'm getting more and more fan of is to draw, ink or paint in CSP, export, and do absolutely anything else in Photo. But if the brush system (draw/ink while zoomed out needing less stabilizer feature, the revamp that would improve how the strokes get mapped in tablets, any improvement in performance, etc) gets some improvements, that might change, as is more comfy to work out everything in the same app (and nope, I wouldn't use Designer for that, I'm a raster (non vector) painter, as most painters are, and the raster functions in the Designer pixel persona are not enough). Although I don't exchange brush control over comfort, also because imports/exports show no issue in my workflows between these apps.

As far as I have read, CSP EX does allow importing (I believe exporting was always allowed in Pro) a CMYK PSD with multiple layers in it, without flattening them and also keeping them CMYK. That would be the (for me) major (in "pro" work) difference. But yep, is very rare the scenario when some project author asks that, in my case. I only remember one instance. It can be the bread and butter for other people, though ! So, the cost of 270 or whatever bucks the EX costs, is something to really consider, when some new arrival is comparing it with the 53 bucks of Affinity Photo, if totally needing to import such layered CMYK files (not for the people in this thread, it seems we all have both brands apps).

The animation thing (limited to 24 frames or something silly like that in the Pro version), I just don't need to mix two worlds (has its big advantages in UI building, and other stuff, but I prefer different apps, personally. Also because I'm picky with animation, and like to have handy many features). And the 3D features are merely to use 3D as a drawing guide (is not like they're giving truly a full 3d modeler inside csp, as much as I would like that, and yet it'd be very out of place) , and I'm against all that. I am a purist in what is drawing, hehe. Train the brain to be the 3D processor, heh.  But yeah, the whole color/image editing area is extremely poorer in CSP than in Affinity Photo. Each app is focusing in a different set of fields. IMO.

And  the epub and other electronic books export can be of high importance to some. IF... one needs that in current workflows. I don't, I'm usually told to make a cover illustration or design for it, or even the entire graphic design of it together withe print version (the whole wrap around, including front cover, back cover and spine, but not exporting the full book). Is the main reason why I don't have yet Publisher, indeed. Even less the case when it is a cover for a board game, or any other type of project.

So, yeah. More than trying to establish if an application is good for something (paint, design, etc), I'd say is totally needed in the equation to be very specific (to think about it) about own's workflow, as there's a world of differences among each one's ways of work and other colleagues', even inside the same category (ie painting, drawing comics...), or even more, how one works now. I don't need certain features I needed 1 year ago, but I need other different ones, now.  In general, the more versatile a tool is, more chances it'll keep adaptable to every project, no matter how complex or rare : thus my defense of work horses like PS and Affinity Photo vs specialized painting tools.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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