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How does AP compare with Clip Studio Paint and Corel Painter and other painting software

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2 hours ago, R C-R said:

Gravit Designer PRO is compatible with "Sierra or later" but it is listed as "1 year," whatever that means.

When Corel acquired GravitDesigner which was free for years, they turn it into a Pro version by taking some features from the still available free version, added to a "Pro-verson" and go subscription; so 99$ is 1 year for that version (only works when connected to the internet).

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3 hours ago, R C-R said:

I had to dig around on the Humble Bundle website a bit but finally found this page in the support section. According to that, Corel Painter 2019 is compatible only with Mac OS versions OS X 10.11 through 10.13.

PhotoMirage, PaintShop Pro Ultimate, & Pinnacle Studio 23 Ultimate are windows only. ParticleShop is compatible only with Mac OS 10.10 through 10.12. Gravit Designer PRO is compatible with "Sierra or later" but it is listed as "1 year," whatever that means.

So from that it would seem that for most Mac users running any recent version of the Mac OS this bundle does not offer much. :(

I would had appreciated “fool” why did you purchase reply, thank you for your donation.  I had a gut feeling this was wrong, my gut hurts, in so many ways.


Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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10 minutes ago, Cecil said:

I would had appreciated “fool” why did you purchase reply, thank you for your donation.  I had a gut feeling this was wrong, my gut hurts, in so many ways.

I know what you mean. Humble Bundle seems to be much more focused on offering products for Windows users than for Mac users. Some of the offerings are 'badged' with the Apple logo as well as the Windows one but the Painter bundle was not & it was not easy to find the link to the compatibility page.

Also, buried in the Terms of Service is a clause that basically says it is the user's responsibility to be aware of the system requirements for any of the products bought through the site, that there may be additional fees required to register the products, & so on. That isn't unreasonable but they could be more up front about it.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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22 hours ago, Cecil said:

Catalina 10.15, I sent them, Humble a message; however, no reply.

Don't want to arouse false hopes but you might want to check if this holds true (the link below is only to the Painter user forum, not the Humble Bundle site):

Stephen

I have heard that Humble Bundle now has the updated/Catalina compatible installer on their website, might be worth giving the latest a try...let us know if it works!

https://painterfactory.com/painter_product_discussion/f/got-a-question-technical-issue-bug-report-for-the-painter-team/30375/cannot-install-painter-2019-on-macos-catalina

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43 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Don't want to arouse false hopes but you might want to check if this holds true (the link below is only to the Painter user forum, not the Humble Bundle site):

Stephen

I have heard that Humble Bundle now has the updated/Catalina compatible installer on their website, might be worth giving the latest a try...let us know if it works!

https://painterfactory.com/painter_product_discussion/f/got-a-question-technical-issue-bug-report-for-the-painter-team/30375/cannot-install-painter-2019-on-macos-catalina

As of yesterday, no.


Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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2 minutes ago, Cecil said:

As of yesterday, no.

As that quoted response is from 3 hours ago, perhaps Humble Bundle updated their site today.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 2004 (19041.388),
   Desktop: 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00GHz, GeForce GTX 970
   Laptop:  8GB memory, Intel Core i7-3625QM @ 2.30GHz, Intel HD Graphics 4000 or NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M
Affinity Photo 1.8.5.703 and 1.9.0.891 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.8.5.703 and 1.9.0.891 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.8.5.703 and 1.9.0.887 Beta.

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Just now, walt.farrell said:

As that quoted response is from 3 hours ago, perhaps Humble Bundle updated their site today.

Walt, I checked before posting.  If they did, it’s hidden from view, support or instructions.


Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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43 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

As that quoted response is from 3 hours ago, perhaps Humble Bundle updated their site today.

Corel, not Humble, provided be a new download DMG to load the Painter 2019 Free Trial.  I was able to use the Product Key provided by Humble to load and register.  I was not interested in the other products. Link that works for macOS 10.15:

https://www.corel.com/akdlm/6763/downloads/free/trials/Painter/2019/CorelPainter2019.dmg


Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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Corel Painter is PRIME example, $229/$179 upgrade from 2019 to 2020, dollar value of Serif products.


Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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7 hours ago, Cecil said:

Corel Painter is PRIME example, $229/$179 upgrade from 2019 to 2020, dollar value of Serif products

Their campaigns might be a bit odd and sporadic (e.g., i upgraded from version 2018 as they currently show an offer when you close the app; perhaps they do not show it in context of recently registered apps) but I have upgraded every now and then starting from early versions and do not think that I have ever paid more then 100 euro (or USD) for the upgrade.

And older completely legal versions can occasionally be found as kinds of offers Humble Bundle had. I do not think they have a particularly strict upgrade eligibility policy, either, and as they offer both Windows and macOS versions at the same price, there is some benefit for users like myself.

 

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Please before you wade into Painter, as a software junkie can I suggest you look at Rebelle3, Artrage, and Painstorm, all great programs built on modern coding and designed by actual artists, and in reference to your original post you can't go too far wrong with Krita either.

I would say that AP and AD are about as good at brush based art as their Adobe equivalents, which means they are a bit of a struggle but they can do the job if you have the pure will to fight through, but there is a reason all concept art looks the same.

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2 hours ago, crunchysqueak said:

I would say that AP and AD are about as good at brush based art as their Adobe equivalents, which means they are a bit of a struggle but they can do the job if you have the pure will to fight through, but there is a reason all concept art looks the same.

And still, PS is the absolute concept art industry standard, at least in games. One better go for it if going for a job in the industry.  So, in a way, for the same reason, yep, Photo can be used just the same.

Rebelle is fine if you don't need to paint on 20k x 20k pixels canvases (for bigger format printing than A4 300dpi, etc). Same issue with Paintstorm, which indeed has the limit by software . And till recently, did not even had a text tool, and like happens with krita, the text tool, and other image editing features, are painful to use in those... Illustration often requires a bit of everything, not to mention that most freelancers, we do a bit of everything, including graphic design, UI, textures, retouch, etc. As u can't always depend only on nice illustration projects. And game art often requires a lot of what an image editor like Photo provides.

Now, about Art Rage, I'd be more inclined to vote for it (and Expresii, for what I have been able to dig about it, although is quite a more specific/specialized tool, even among already niche tools like these painting apps are).

But yeah, Expresii's author IS an artist (and seems a good one), Art Rage's author (if anyone was able and lucky to read his famous and revealing/great reddit post about his whole story in developing software for artists) is an artist, and also wanted to make tools for artists : They understand the deals and the issues.


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Hello, I’m not a industry pro and I bought CSP and Affinity Photo. I usually color scanned drawings (ink or pencil) and I work in A3 "big" size (I am a comics artist and a page can be 50 cm big) . With my old gamer PC 8Go Ram, Affinity has big problems to manage such a size in 300dpi. CSP has better management of memory. And I think CSP is very ergonomic and you can customize a lot of tools and shortcut (the selection tools are the best I met). But CSP does not manage CYMK and it’s something I need for professional printing. And for some reason, I prefer Daum brushes in Affinity Photo.

 

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I suspect something is going on there with your hardware, or more likely your OS configuration or status, as while yep, CSP is crazily good handling/painting over large files,  an A3 canvas size at 300 DPI, definitely comfortable for painting and drawing in Affinity Photo in my machine, an old i7 860 , 8GB RAM, so, first generation, really old (arcane) and I have zero issues with a size like that (you need to use the brush stabilizer feature, tho!). Unless you are using a very large number of layers (which can be avoided in 98% of the projects). A Windows poorly configured or maintained can be almost 50% less performing...

But yep, CSP is very good in its strongest areas. Its brush system is second to none. It has CMYK, btw, just not the fine tuning of it,  its handling and export in the way you have it in Affinity Photo, which is at a higher level in those matters. Daub brushes in Photo I believe have like an extra dimension/variation compared to CSP's... don't quote me on that, but someone explained this to me not long ago... Even so, I do fake all sort of artistic styles with even just round brushes, so that would not be for me a very strong point. CSP's brush system has some key advantages.  I've done with it both comic style inking to deep detail, as well as full illustrations, realistic painting.

In the end, I firmly believe that (leaving out vector based illustrators and graphic designers, who don't really need CSP) almost any 2D artist, whether a comic artist, non vector illustrator, game artist, concept artist or whatever the flavor of digital painter or matte painter... gets a lot of benefit in having both CSP and Affinity Photo purchased and installed. IMO is absolutely not one instead of the other. And of course, would be ridiculous to consider an issue the cost of both together (at least in first and "second" world) for any professional of those areas, but what is more, I even realize that ANY hobby would cost more than what you need for this: literally these two apps (the sum is around 100 bucks) and a 100 bucks tablet like the Deco 03 or Pro from XP-Pen, or any battery-free pen , medium size tablet from Huion. As I assume for other reasons , any half serious hobbyist and definitely any pro, has (hopefully) a desktop or a laptop.  Heck,  or any average Jane/Joe. Almost any hobby (sports, traveling, etc) is way more expensive. This investment can last for at least 3 years (if not 5, at least) until you need new features.  And the drawing tablet, am having 3 absolutely intact and 100% working after 10 years. Divided in years the cost is ridiculous.  About learning two apps : The more the merrier. It empowers the brain for faster future learning and adaptability : proven fact.


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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3 hours ago, lian00 said:

But CSP does not manage CYMK and it’s something I need for professional printing.

CSP EX handles also CMYK and has devices for commercial printing (but is also significantly more expensive -- though they often offer it with significant discount to owners of CSP Paint PRO).

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Actually you can work in CMYK mode in the pro version. The only big issue I found by having the PRO (I don't care about  the extra 3D features, neither for exporting to an epub format, longer animations, or animation at all, or handling it all as a publication (for that matter I'd might just use Affinity Publisher))  and not the EX is that in the pro you cannot import a CMYK PSD with multiple layers (you can a flattened one). I mean, you can, but I believe it flattens it all to one layer. You can still deal with it somehow. And is only an issue if working with clients providing you not only a PSD as only possibility, but also already as a CMYK file, which is not really common (I usually am the one to be exporting to CMYK IF needed, and as a last step. I work in RGB most of the time). I have not looked at it deeply (as Affinity Photo covers all this greatly), but it does also seem way more limited in terms of conversions and handling this color mode (maybe only in the PRO version). But this is not the only image editing feature that I miss in CSP in my projects, versus using sth like A. Photo or PS. That's why I believe they're good companions (the brush system in CSP is still better).


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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The CYMK in CSP Pro is very strange. I made colors for comics for an editor who asked for no black in the colors. In CYMK, I use color sliders to get 0% of black. But you pick a dark color created this way and paint, you can see in color sliders that the color contains black ! So I cannot trust at all CYMK for this usage. I will have a look at CSP Ex.

@SrPx I am very confident about my computer as I take care of it. I don’t meet this memory problem with Corel Painter I just tested.

 

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2 hours ago, SrPx said:

Actually you can work in CMYK mode in the pro version.

Ok, based on your description it does not appear that Pro actually differs from EX in terms of color handling in anything else (just the PSD layer support). CSP (EX) is nothing like Affinity Photo or Publisher in areas of color handling and creating a publication for commercial printing, so there is no point in upgrading because of these features if one already owns Affinity Publisher.

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2 hours ago, lian00 said:

The CYMK in CSP Pro is very strange. I made colors for comics for an editor who asked for no black in the colors. In CYMK, I use color sliders to get 0% of black. But you pick a dark color created this way and paint, you can see in color sliders that the color contains black ! So I cannot trust at all CYMK for this usage. I will have a look at CSP Ex.

@SrPx I am very confident about my computer as I take care of it. I don’t meet this memory problem with Corel Painter I just tested.

 

Is not solely one thing that happens to CSP. I remember versions of Inkscape, Photoshop, and some others having similar issues, specially with the sliders and then picking a sample, or when saving, etc. It usually tended to be a matter of using tricks. Sometimes it is the case of how the eyedropper works in each app.  I had similar issues in other packages to ensure full 100% K (black) for crisp and small text, and not any other color in the mix. And in several cases was a matter of using the app ONLY in certain (even if counter intuitive) way. 

This is one of the kind of reasons why I'm a bit alone in some conversations when I insist that for actual client work, you end up preferring a full image editor (like Affinity Photo or Photoshop) with a brush system, rather than an specialized painting (as fancy and cool they are, I keep seeing them only as useful companions) tool without ....all...without everything you need for actual files preparation and being up to current market requirements.

That said, I have exported CMYK files from CSP without issues (but every project does have different requirements). The issue that you mention, I don't doubt it could be happening.

My mention about the hardware was because I have painted with a canvas surely twice that size, fluidly, in Photo. That's why I was surprised, as I have a terrible machine. Also, a lot (a high percentage but not all) of people coming here with performance problems, in many of the cases you end up knowing they use a laptop with integrated GPU, and very low powered cpu (which on paper is even lower, as a laptop cannot really cool well the circuits, and performance is always lower in benchmarks). It could have been this case, but it isn't.


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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35 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Ok, based on your description it does not appear that Pro actually differs from EX in terms of color handling in anything else (just the PSD layer support). CSP (EX) is nothing like Affinity Photo or Publisher in areas of color handling and creating a publication for commercial printing, so there is no point in upgrading because of these features if one already owns Affinity Publisher.

For those reasons alone, nope....

One workflow I'm getting more and more fan of is to draw, ink or paint in CSP, export, and do absolutely anything else in Photo. But if the brush system (draw/ink while zoomed out needing less stabilizer feature, the revamp that would improve how the strokes get mapped in tablets, any improvement in performance, etc) gets some improvements, that might change, as is more comfy to work out everything in the same app (and nope, I wouldn't use Designer for that, I'm a raster (non vector) painter, as most painters are, and the raster functions in the Designer pixel persona are not enough). Although I don't exchange brush control over comfort, also because imports/exports show no issue in my workflows between these apps.

As far as I have read, CSP EX does allow importing (I believe exporting was always allowed in Pro) a CMYK PSD with multiple layers in it, without flattening them and also keeping them CMYK. That would be the (for me) major (in "pro" work) difference. But yep, is very rare the scenario when some project author asks that, in my case. I only remember one instance. It can be the bread and butter for other people, though ! So, the cost of 270 or whatever bucks the EX costs, is something to really consider, when some new arrival is comparing it with the 53 bucks of Affinity Photo, if totally needing to import such layered CMYK files (not for the people in this thread, it seems we all have both brands apps).

The animation thing (limited to 24 frames or something silly like that in the Pro version), I just don't need to mix two worlds (has its big advantages in UI building, and other stuff, but I prefer different apps, personally. Also because I'm picky with animation, and like to have handy many features). And the 3D features are merely to use 3D as a drawing guide (is not like they're giving truly a full 3d modeler inside csp, as much as I would like that, and yet it'd be very out of place) , and I'm against all that. I am a purist in what is drawing, hehe. Train the brain to be the 3D processor, heh.  But yeah, the whole color/image editing area is extremely poorer in CSP than in Affinity Photo. Each app is focusing in a different set of fields. IMO.

And  the epub and other electronic books export can be of high importance to some. IF... one needs that in current workflows. I don't, I'm usually told to make a cover illustration or design for it, or even the entire graphic design of it together withe print version (the whole wrap around, including front cover, back cover and spine, but not exporting the full book). Is the main reason why I don't have yet Publisher, indeed. Even less the case when it is a cover for a board game, or any other type of project.

So, yeah. More than trying to establish if an application is good for something (paint, design, etc), I'd say is totally needed in the equation to be very specific (to think about it) about own's workflow, as there's a world of differences among each one's ways of work and other colleagues', even inside the same category (ie painting, drawing comics...), or even more, how one works now. I don't need certain features I needed 1 year ago, but I need other different ones, now.  In general, the more versatile a tool is, more chances it'll keep adaptable to every project, no matter how complex or rare : thus my defense of work horses like PS and Affinity Photo vs specialized painting tools.


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Hello, a bit late here, but I guess the question is still valid?

As a professional artist since 1983, previously acrylic on canvas, but mainly using digital painting and drawing tools for 12 years now.

For my artwork, I only paint with Corel Painter 2021. BUT from there it's only Affinity tools; Photo - Designer and Publisher. Especially Affinity Photo is used. Finished a work, of course saving as a riff file (Corel), and then save that as tiff as Affinity don't take riff (but that's ok for me). 

I refuse to use anything from Adobe as I don't support their policy, but even if I had, it would be Affinity (-:

Affinity Photo is what I recommend all - but for the painter software, Corel Painter is for me the one I prefer as I can use all my experience from physical painting, and it gives me the full control (don't accept tools or plug-ins that automate the result in any way). 

BUT what defines a professional artist for me is that s/he have found their own voice (stroke and colour temperatures and so forth). From there everyone should just test what is available - there is not a best program as I see it, so search, try and you will end up with the tools that fit you the best (and I would of course love to see an Affinity Painter tool one day).

PS, I absolutely don't use a vector software, as that for me is not painting but illustration.

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For information: managing CYMK in CSP is still a problem (see official https://tips.clip-studio.com/fr-fr/articles/553) as you cannot correct an saved file in CSP without losing CYMK informations (a dumb problem as CSP Pro is supposed to help creating printing manga projects).

I have changed my computer so I will try again to work into Affinity Photo but I think it’s less ergonomic than CSP or Krita what provides actions to work efficiently (docks for quick access to tools). PaintTool SAI2 is a good example of efficient management of tools (everything seems so natural to find).

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My 2c : Affinity Photo does have outstanding possibilities to become itself a "painter software" (in my book it doesn't  need to have too specific painting tool features, like symmetry painting, canvas rotation, etc) without needing not even a 5% of the painting-specific features Corel painter (or Krita, etc) has. Not to say it would ever get better at it than Corel Painter, as it would never be a fully painting-specialized tool, is not its purpose. But turns out, sadly many painting apps developers don't realize how complex and how much of an hybrid workflow is the every day of an illustrator, digital painter, comic artist or etc. All these professions DO need way too often all what Photoshop or Affinity Photo provide. A lot of people who say otherwise... have not really worked full time as an artist, or have actually used Photoshop on the side to do a full project besides the painting tool, a real lot (often, not enjoying it). Photoshop is not, by any means, what I would call a "painting specific tool". Not in the slightest. Yet so, it has become The tool to even go through the first interview at any studio (be it games, film stuff, graphic design, you name it). Specially to work as a a general 2D artist, illustrator or concept artist. So, Photo only needs improvements in its basic painting system, not really more features (much a shorter path than converting it into a painting tool or even more, doing a full new app, which am sure is not in their plans). It would not make it become less of a great photo editing app, anyway, and would improve the photo work as well, which procedures are very based too on the brush system (and tablet precision, etc), and other matters related to retouch. As color picker, performance, brushes improvements, all that totally would benefit anything image editing as well (like in many apps, more about making solid what is already there).

I do think Photo can be used as a painting software, ALREADY. I made my workflow with it, and would use it for painting as well if I wasn't already having all my workflow in drawing and painting with CSP and/or krita (depending on the project). But Photo and Designer keep being a total must for me in every project (and that's only increasing, recently even Publisher).

The thing is, Photo is IMO way closer to become a full fledged illustration and digital painting tool (in the practical way I think such tool must be) than any of the specialized painting tools are to have what an illustrator, painter or whatever digital artist, do need to bring anything to completion, full complex projects, deliver the proper files, edit in certain way, etc, etc  As....sorry to bring this, but IMO vector illustration is another type of illustration (not what define illustration per se... indeed, traditional illustration in XIX century (or medieval illustration, etc) had a process much more similar to raster painting!...even illustration till the 80s), but gazillions of illustrators (and almost all digital painters) are raster based.

So... here's a kind of slight (but important) mismatch with Serif's criteria (I'm not criticizing them, in this, nor any other moment of the post) about it and some others take at it. Clearly, from several posts here from the team, Affinity is the tool they want to be the illustration tool, while Photo is for photography and maybe general image editing (contrarily to the good-for-all that people is used to consider (so was implemented in companies workflows) a tool like this: ie, Photoshop, Gimp, etc). While actually Photo has a better brush behavior in my experience (probably  due to the vector stuff making it a different animal) and a number of important features (for raster illustrators and digital painters...and for image editing, in general) existing in Photo are not in the AD raster mode. So, there's kind of a gap or disconnection there, but is not the end of the world, we should be able to manage with what we have.

So, my point : it is indeed a shorter road to use Affinity Photo  than very specialized painting tools, in my not very popular (in this matter) two cents. Or it would be, in theory. But I speak from very long experience, and not working on this as a hobby. Yet though, every workflow is a world apart, and many will differ, rightfully so. I have worked in many fields, though (I mean, is not due to just considering a single very specific workflow).

You have just mentioned ( @lian00, now) the issue of CSP, but... Here's the issues I see with it (I agree in several points, tho) :

- That tutorial is good, but I see some stuff not too accurate (could be that I am using google translate French-English, though...).

- Yes! CSP (I have the EX) really what makes is a soft proof preview, not having you working in a real full CMYK mode, which you have instead in : Photoshop, Illustrator, Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer., to name a few. Not so in Gimp (maybe yep this year, am waiting for that, thanks to that new library) and, to my knowledge, neither in Corel's Paint Shop Pro. Even more, as far as I can remember, actually Corel Painter did not have a real CMYK mode (just the conversion/export thing and preview), but I could be wrong, as I am not following the latest versions. Funnily enough, Corel PHoto Paint, DID have a real CMYK mode, although I did not handle that app for long, and was many years ago. Art Rage is fully RGB only, too. I believe Rebelle 3 too. Most specialized painting tools are, indeed!  If anything CSP has an advantage over those in that it at least allows you to do a CMYK export, conversion using an advanced color intent procedure, which is not so great in many apps other than Photoshop, and no surprise that it is so, as it indeed the app is very tied with printing, being it initially mostly a tool for manga professionals in Japan (still is, as far as I know. Just that now is used by many non manga comic artists and illustrators in all the world). It perfectly works for the purpose, indeed, and this carry me to the next point.

- The workflow that CSP forces you to do in that regard, specially for painting and non vector based illustrators... Is the right one! One could make an exception with manga and focus in CMYk since start with it (I wouldn't, even so), as it uses often over saturated colors, the kind that can escape from printable colors ranges, and often just flat coloring or gradient based. But digital print companies today, often will make a better conversion in their RIP and by specialized staff than we would do with our apps (PDF/X-4 is a good format for these exports), and we would be probably exporting a much poorer color output than what these modern printers can actually produce (I experienced that, indeed). So, there's a strong tendency of working in RGB (and only convert to CMYK last minute, treating it as a "lossy format", like a "jpeg compression for the web"!), indeed, as most of the time the client will decide the print company depending on prices, and so, the color profile would be whatever that company requires (and level of ink, and etc), if it does. This is particularly true specially for the type of outputs independent artists, freelancers, are going to be required to do. Often not OFFSET, etc. But even if so, you are still better off working fully in RGB. The CMYK conversion being only a final step. Working all the time in CMYK is lossy (using the CMYK preview against certain profile can be useful, tho, but for checks only, after all, you get used to know what will go out of printable range...), and can bring you other problems, whatever the app you use. The same why working in 16 bits is better than in 8 bits, but for different reasons, and in quite a major degree in the case of CMYK vs RGB. A different story in vectors, where you might want to prefer to work from start in CMYK , spot colors, etc (mostly in pure graphic design, really, or mostly flat colors/ gradients based illustrations ).

- TLDR; I don't really see an issue with CSP not having a true CMYK mode (I was wrong about it, btw, my bad), just preview and conversion/export, specially for how is the ideal way of working, today, in these fields.

@Artvid IMO, illustration can be vectorial or raster based. And... digital painting (I also started with traditional, been painting all my life, I'm your age or older)... well... IMO it's mostly raster based. But one could do digital painting with vectors, too (there are some examples  in  the gallery... Although is different from the traditional act of painting, the method, so to speak, but...in a way, they are digital painters). I don't agree a palette must always be the element which would identify or define every (with many, yep) artist, though (arguable, I know; it's my opinion)... I agree that every person is a world apart, and what one finds as an ideal tool,  might be not the tool for another artist.

About efficiency... there are ways to make the current Affinity Photo efficient in painting and drawing (that's how I built a painting workflow there). My 2c. All in all, I can't conceive now any project without Photo (or Designer, in vectors), but for now, it'd be to painful to stop using CSP. More due to CSP's excellency than Photo's issues. But I would prefer if I could do everything in Photo. I don't expect it getting the CSP's brush response/behavior, but maybe yep some improvements happening, I'd trade several CSP advantages for the convinience  (in almost every 2D field I work in) of an overall 2D workhorse like Photo and PS are). 

EDIT and PD : Anyway... I'd strongly recommend to export the RGB file from CSP, Rebelle or whatever your painting tool is... import it in Photo, and do the (+edits, if needed) export to a CMYK file, be it as PDF (many print companies will require a PDF/X-4 in Adobe RGB color profile, some even as a sRGB file (don't ask me why.....)) or etc, from Photo. As CSP has several lacks, not only in this matter, specially when preparing your final file.


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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On 10/16/2019 at 9:30 AM, R C-R said:

ParticleShop is compatible only with Mac OS 10.10 through 10.12

I have Particleshop working on 10.13.6


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

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I stand corrected (in some aspects, slightly, as I was saying AP was already good for painting).

About painting improvements...  Dunno if it's a placebo effect, but am finding latest (I hadn't upgraded for some time...) the latest stable Photo version, with "high precision" on (I think is not default) , and my old trick for the eyedropper : I need blasting fast color picker with the "alt" key method. It is very fast! (when using the real keyboard physical key) but for some reason when u set it in a secondary side pen button, it has some small delay that makes me pause a bit more (because my glazing technique requires ultrasonic color picking, constantly) on each pick, or it wont register.... funny thing is... with my x-mouse (free) utility I set it to emulate a mouse button click, the 4th mouse button (non existing in my cheapo mouse), and in X-Mouse utility, to intercept that and give (substituting a 4th mouse click with the following) the output of an ALT + LMB (left mouse button click). So I only hit the pen side button, without clicking on canvas, to pick a color. It is rather fast, doesn't miss a color picking any more.

The pressure sensitivity works amazing (I'm using Wacom intuos pro 4 (xl)), it allows to work with "traditional media" brushes amazingly well. Much better than I remembered. I am working now on a project that is gonna need Photo in the painting stages too (that's why...).

So... kindda I'd like to tone down a bit  (for now) my previous (already quite slight) statement about the need for some  improvements for painting (there still is, but quite bearable)... Certainly, the color picker issue if set in a side pen button still exists (but I am not sure they would be able to even replicate that!), while does not happen at all in every other single painting software application, so, clearly there is something done differently there.

Selfishly thinking tho, I'm fine for now, with my own fix... ! (like when I used to use x-mouse to force wheel zoom, till it got natively implemented). So... I... don't see any issue to paint with Photo, really, and there's a lot of love thrown lately to the brushes system, it seems. Just purchased (as all was/is on discount) a lot of extra brushes at their store, and ... those are real pieces of art, highly recommended. That said, the default brushes they include are in most cases the kings of performance. Not as fancy as some third parties (yet really well done), but sometimes speed and big brushes (tip: use a basic brush to block and cover areas, richer brushes for refinement and finishing) is more key than anything. Mostly meaning, no brush is unusable, but the default ones might allow you to go with bigger brush sizes. Anyway, am just testing a clouds one, with a 500px brush, and it... flies. Truth to be told , tho... Last time I checked was with a core i7 860 (from 2008, first of  the "core i"  generation thingy (Lynnfield)) 8GB of slow ram, and a 1050. So, the ryzen 9 3900x (12 cores/24t) ,32gb, and crappy (better than the previous GTX 275  and 1050 2gb) 1650 4gb might be a factor...altho in other apps painting was already 100% smooth with that dinosaur.  Again, dunno if it's a placebo effect, but setting the high precision on, I am not seeing line wobble with inking lines, either. This WITHOUT stabilizer (while I repeat it : I like the stabilizer implementation in Photo), I have it off in all the test. After all, I only use stabilizer on inking, and imo the path is always training to need it less (but it is a neck saver with any current tablet in certain situations).  I believe I noticed some line wobble when I had "high precision"  no on. I believe some people had issues with it ON, but it never occurred to me, so... Also, considering this always happened very much clearly (strongly) when in zoomed out (working on a 3k x 3k canvas, 39% zoom out, maybe on a 20k x20k is more visible), I see then quite a lot of improvement done. I'm yet to check the latest betas (they seem really interesting), but I'm busy with a project.

Dunno, setting up the studio windows (specially color as floating and in HSL mode) and general UI in a smart way, (and if they need super fast color picking like I do due to my technique, using my trick with x-mouse seems to save the day completely. Or just using alt key in the keyboard, lol) I can't see why people wouldn't be able to paint with Photo, and providing a top quality output (for clients, hobby, whatever).

BTW: I believe I purchased almost all the third party brushes at Serif's store (already had  the complete Daub bundle for Affinity (and CSP) since log ago...), even the ones for Designer, while I rarely use it for illustration (but planning something for 2 projects)... impulse buying, I guess :D. Specially when I am an strong defender of the concept of "you can paint ANYTHING (and you should) with only one brush, even the basic round brush with good flow and opacity sensitivity settings". Still, realized some brushes can cut times when not used as main, for certain stuff without breaking the style (important), and in other aspects, the traditional touch of oils/acrylics/watercolors is a nice touch that many appreciate (me too).


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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