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TelFiRE

What's with the tool-toggling?!

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I really, really don't understand that design decision. Having tools toggle on and off from their hotkey is like designing a steering wheel in a car to toggle between steering left and right, and you have no way to know which one it's going to do without trying it out. This violates some really fundamental and basic principles of user interface design. When I press a hotkey I need to know exactly what it's going to do.

I really love this software overall, but this one flaw is enough to completely spoil it. I can't use this for production unless/until you fix it.

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Hey TelFiRE,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

They don't toggle on/off. When you press a shortcut you go to the corresponding tool. If you press the same shortcut again Affinity will return to the previous used tool.

There's a exception here: if the shortcut you pressed matches a tool that belongs to a tool group, pressing that shortcut again will cycle through the tools of that group instead of going to the previous used tool. You can however customise all tool's shortcuts to suit your needs in Affinity Designer/Photo Preferences, Keyboard Shortcuts section (set the first dropdown to Photo and the second to Tools) setting them to different keys to prevent this second behaviour (group Tools) from interfering.

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On 5. 5. 2018 at 10:40 PM, TelFiRE said:

like designing a steering wheel in a car

 

Why do you turn the steering wheel again to the left, when you're already going to the left?


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15 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Why do you turn the steering wheel again to the left, when you're already going to the left?

 

To go more sharply to the left, perhaps? What you certainly don’t expect is that having previously turned it to the right, turning it to the left a second time makes the car turn right instead of left.

 

I’m used to the behaviour in the Affinity apps, so it doesn’t bother me personally, but if the tool toggling feature were absent I don’t think many users would miss it!


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.2.471 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.2.153 • Designer for iPad 1.7.2.6 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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On 5/7/2018 at 3:40 AM, MEB said:

They don't toggle on/off.

Regardless of individual perception of this "feature", it remains confusing, jarring and frustrating for many page layout software users.

My analogy (which I've explained before  https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/56697-type-tool-to-move-tool-hotkey/&do=findComment&comment=289576 ) ...

goes something like: If I'm working at my desk, and I reach for my pencil (use hotkey), should I have to look closely to make sure that my pencil is in my hand, and not my pen or scissors? No.

In my mind, hotkeys primary purpose is speed. You reduce the speed by requiring me to keep track of which tool is chosen by a single hotkey.

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1 hour ago, metajake said:

which tool is chosen by a single hotkey.

 

As MEB wrote, it is not a problem to define a different shortcut for each tool.

 

9 hours ago, Alfred said:

What you certainly don’t expect is that having previously turned it to the right, turning it to the left a second time makes the car turn right instead of left.

 

On car no, turning is limited. But on bicycle? :-) 


Affinity Store: Designer 1.7.2.471, Photo 1.7.2.471, Publisher 1.7.2.471.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 1903, Build 18362.295.
Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.

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32 minutes ago, Pšenda said:
10 hours ago, Alfred said:

What you certainly don’t expect is that having previously turned it to the right, turning it to the left a second time makes the car turn right instead of left.

 

On car no, turning is limited. But on bicycle? :-) 

 

Please watch this YouTube video: The Backwards Brain Bicycle

 


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.2.471 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.2.153 • Designer for iPad 1.7.2.6 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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On 5/7/2018 at 3:40 AM, MEB said:

You can however customise all tool's shortcuts to suit your needs in Affinity Designer/Photo Preferences.

 

2 hours ago, Pšenda said:

As MEB wrote, it is not a problem to define a different shortcut for each tool.

 

From what I see this does not prevent toggling (between the Move Tool and the Text Tool).

When I "customize" the Move Tool hotkey to "v" and the "Frame Text Tool" to "t", using either hotkey will still toggle between the Move tool or the Frame Text tool.

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28 minutes ago, metajake said:

 

 

From what I see this does not prevent toggling (between the Move Tool and the Text Tool).

When I "customize" the Move Tool hotkey to "v" and the "Frame Text Tool" to "t", using either hotkey will still toggle between the Move tool or the Frame Text tool.

 

Problem has two parts:

- "toggling" back to origin tools,

- and "switching" between more tools, about you write ("which tool is chosen by a single hotkey").

Switching is solvable by setting different shortcut, and setting options for toggling is discussed long time ago. For example:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/39428-add-option-to-disable-toggling-between-last-tool-used-with-shortcut-of-other/

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/52437-just-a-simple-option/

 


Affinity Store: Designer 1.7.2.471, Photo 1.7.2.471, Publisher 1.7.2.471.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 1903, Build 18362.295.
Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.

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7 hours ago, Pšenda said:

Switching is solvable 

In the links that you posted, I do not see a way to solve the problem of: Disable "Return to previous tool".

Am I missing the solution for that one problem?

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5 hours ago, MEB said:

There's no way to turn off the return (toggling) to previous tool behaviour.

Thanks for chiming in, MEB.

In which case, I will stand behind my feedback for adding an option to disable "Return to Previous Tool Toggle".

I'm embarrassed that I am not able to properly utilize the "Return to Previous Tool" toggle function. But I've been using Affinity for many months now, almost daily. And I still get occasionally tripped up by an unexpected tool, after using a hotkey.

 

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On 5/9/2018 at 4:39 PM, metajake said:

In which case, I will stand behind my feedback for adding an option to disable "Return to Previous Tool Toggle".

 

I've been using Affinity Photo for a few weeks and this is definitely the most annoying thing I had encountered. When I'm painting I switch tools using hotkeys a lot and I don't look at the tools panel at all so I often end up using other tool then I wanted. I had already removed all hotkey groups but this option is sorely missed.

I think that adding such option should not be that complicated...? =)

 

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On 5/9/2018 at 10:39 AM, metajake said:

Thanks for chiming in, MEB.

In which case, I will stand behind my feedback for adding an option to disable "Return to Previous Tool Toggle".

I'm embarrassed that I am not able to properly utilize the "Return to Previous Tool" toggle function. But I've been using Affinity for many months now, almost daily. And I still get occasionally tripped up by an unexpected tool, after using a hotkey.

 

I 100% agree with @metajake. The biggest thing that trips me up in Affinity Designer is this "return to previous tool" toggle function. When I hit "V" I want the default move/arrow tool. When I hit "B" I want the brush tool. I may hit it multiple times to ENSURE I am on that tool. But instead, that is the worst thing to do in Affinity Designer, because instead you just ensured that you have no clue what you just selected. Really disruptive to work flow. 

I would be strongly in favor of a preferences option to disable this functionality. Then I would immediately disable it and forever be happy.

One Workaround that feels silly to do but actually helps...

  • If you want the brush tool (B) - and have been using (B) and (V) recently, don't click (B)
  • First Click (H) or (Z) or (M) - anything you for sure have not used recently.
  • Now click (B)
  • Now & only now, you are guaranteed to have the brush tool. No matter what.

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On 5/7/2018 at 1:40 AM, MEB said:

Hey TelFiRE,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

They don't toggle on/off. When you press a shortcut you go to the corresponding tool. If you press the same shortcut again Affinity will return to the previous used tool.

There's a exception here: if the shortcut you pressed matches a tool that belongs to a tool group, pressing that shortcut again will cycle through the tools of that group instead of going to the previous used tool. You can however customise all tool's shortcuts to suit your needs in Affinity Designer/Photo Preferences, Keyboard Shortcuts section (set the first dropdown to Photo and the second to Tools) setting them to different keys to prevent this second behaviour (group Tools) from interfering.

So I have turned off shortcuts for the pixel tool and color replacement tool so that "b" will select the brush tool only.

Am I to understand that there is no way to disable "press the same shortcut again Affinity will return to the previous used tool"?


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50 minutes ago, TomM1 said:

So I have turned off shortcuts for the pixel tool and color replacement tool so that "b" will select the brush tool only.

Am I to understand that there is no way to disable "press the same shortcut again Affinity will return to the previous used tool"?

In 1.7 you'll have an option that when selected will (a) require use of the shift key along with the tool's shortcut key to cycle among the different tools in a group and (b) disable the behavior of returning to the previous tool if you press the shortcut again.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.476 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.476 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.475 Beta

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15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

In 1.7 you'll have an option that when selected will (a) require use of the shift key along with the tool's shortcut key to cycle among the different tools in a group and (b) disable the behavior of returning to the previous tool if you press the shortcut again.

Where do you see these options in 1.7?


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17 minutes ago, TomM1 said:

Where do you see these options in 1.7?

image.png.5916755c37fea3b7d030e668ff94b0e9.png


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.476 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.476 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.475 Beta

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