What is appropriate to post in the Share your work forum please?

[William Overington]

53 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

It shows nothing about what you can accomplish using Affinity applications.

Well it does.

The fact that it could also be done with software for which one has to pay an annual fee to continue using it and costs lots more for using it in England does not alter the fact that such a post of a poem in an A4 PDf document shows something that can be done with Affinity Publisher.

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Inspiring people to write original poetry is not the purpose of these forums, though.

However, if a customer who buys a licence for Affinity Publisher is inspired to write original poetry and publishes it in the Share your work forum then it is possible that being a participant in the Share your work forum rather than just viewing and wishing to participate could inspire the person to try producing art, first of all with the Pen Tool in Affinity Publisher then buying a licence for Affinity Designer and maybe as the person progresses buying a licence for Affinity Photo. The person might really enjoy being part of it all and this would all help Serif in its sales. Some people only look for obvious first order effects of things and do not consider the second order effects, yet second order effects can have huge consequences in time.

So, alright, most people who have posted in this thread so far have taken a view that is very different from my view, so here we are.

I consider that the Share your work forum should be for people to post anything they choose as long as it is not unsuitable for family viewing and has involved using Affinity software somewhere in the process. In that way people can participate regardless of their level of ability and there could be gentle encouragement.

William

 

 

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, William Overington said:

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

 Does that have anything to do with using any of the features of APub in some unique or special way?

Not necessarily. Usually no.

Then IMO it is not something that would, as you implied, inspire anyone to use APub. That is yet another reason I do not believe such content belongs in the Share Your Work forum.

[v_kyr]

52 minutes ago, William Overington said:

There are businesses that regularly publish greetings cards that artists have produced.

...

I know that I cannot produce art of that quality or anything near it myself.

I feel that the AI generated picture that is in the presently hidden post is rather splendid, though I recognize that I feel that way because I requested a painting with certain features, namely impressionist style, a lady in a long green dress feeding an okapi and that is one of the images generated by the ai system.

Then you better learn and spend the time to draw such things on your own, instead on relying on some Ai systems here. As I already said before, using an Ai for generating such stuff is nothing based on your own intellectual creativity, or your own drawing skills and tryouts by using Affinity software. - So learn to use and handle things by doing it with the Affinity software yourself, that's finally the purpose why the Affinity software has been developed at all and contains a mirad of drawing tools & features.

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

I am interested to know how much detail can be in the text prompt to the AI system that it will incorporate into the picture.

For example, I requested a painting in the style of Van Gogh of a lady reading haiku to an elephant in a field of flowering lavender with a Roman aqueduct in the background and the Bing Chat AI did it.

 

...

 

Another time I asked for a painting in the style of Claude Monet and I included things such as a stegosaurus, a garden, a pond and lilies that are flowering and it did it.

Which again here theme wise has nothing to do with the Affinity software itself yet. - Instead you may want to visit some AI promping forum and participate there then, or learn somewhere else how to use AI prompting the right way.

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

So I am exploring how much detail it will include.

Quote

 

Sure, here is a description of a lady in a green dress feeding a troll:

Beneath the shade of an ancient, gnarled oak tree, a gentle scene unfolds. A maiden in a flowing emerald gown, her hair the color of ripe wheat, kneels beside a moss-covered boulder, her hands outstretched in offering. Before her sits a hulking troll, its rough-hewn features softened by the dappled sunlight filtering through the leaves. The troll's eyes, once glinting with malice, now reflect a hint of curiosity as it regards the lady's outstretched palms, which hold a basket brimming with plump, juicy berries.

The maiden's touch is gentle as she extends a handful of berries towards the troll, her voice a soothing melody as she speaks in a language the creature understands. The troll hesitates, its wariness evident, but the lady's kindness and the tantalizing aroma of the berries eventually overcome its doubts. It reaches out, its gnarled fingers gingerly grasping a berry, bringing it to its lips. A spark of satisfaction ignites in the troll's eyes as it savors the sweet, tart flavor.

Encouraged by the troll's acceptance, the maiden continues her offering, filling the creature's belly with the nourishing berries. Gradually, the troll's demeanor shifts, its gruff exterior giving way to a newfound gentleness. It nuzzles against the maiden's hand, its rough skin surprisingly soft against her delicate skin.

As the sun begins to set, casting long shadows across the forest floor, the maiden rises, her basket empty but her heart filled with warmth. She bids farewell to the now amicable troll, their bond forged through the simple act of kindness. The troll watches her depart, its eyes filled with gratitude, a newfound friend found in the most unexpected place.

 

... and when asking some AI about "feeding a troll"...

Quote

The term "feeding the troll" is an internet slang phrase used to describe the act of engaging with someone who is intentionally trying to provoke or upset others. Trolls often enjoy getting a reaction out of people, so they will post inflammatory or offensive content in order to get attention. When someone responds to a troll, they are essentially giving them what they want.

Why you should not feed trolls

There are a few reasons why you should not feed trolls. First, it's a waste of your time and energy. Trolls are not interested in having a real conversation or debate. They just want to get a rise out of you. If you engage with them, you're only going to make the situation worse.

Second, feeding trolls can actually make them more aggressive. When you respond to their posts, it shows them that their tactics are working. This can encourage them to continue posting more inflammatory content.

Finally, feeding trolls can make the internet a more hostile place for everyone. When people see others engaging with trolls, it can make them feel like they can't express their own opinions without being attacked. This can stifle open and honest communication online.

What you should do instead

If you encounter a troll, the best thing to do is to ignore them. Don't click on their links, don't respond to their comments, and don't engage in any kind of conversation with them. You can also report them to the website or forum where you found them.

... in this sense I leave this thread now!

[William Overington]

Thank you for posting the story of a lady in a green dress feeding a troll.

Alas you have left, so I wonder whether you or an AI system wrote the story.

Please don't provide the answer yet.

William

 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

They might like the picture.

They might, but it's not a picture created using Affinity applications, and so it's irrelevant here. The forum is not about "showing nice things"; it's about showing things created using the tools we're here to discuss.

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

I know that I cannot produce art of that quality or anything near it myself.

I feel that the AI generated picture that is in the presently hidden post is rather splendid, though I recognize that I feel that way because I requested a painting with certain features, namely impressionist style, a lady in a long green dress feeding an okapi and that is one of the images generated by the ai system.

https://punster.me/serif/viewtopic.php?pid=3876#p3876

It is quite fascinating because when I had previously asked for a pastel drawing I got the following.

https://punster.me/serif/viewtopic.php?pid=3873#p3873

Again, it may be fascinating to you, but it is not relevant to us here. If we want to discuss or read discussions about AI and art, we would go to a site for discussing that (as we are suggesting you should do). Here we want to learn how to create art using the Affinity applications.

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

I am interested to know how much detail can be in the text prompt to the AI system that it will incorporate into the picture.

But this forum site is not about that. That's why you shouldn't post it here.

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

The fact that it could also be done with software for which one has to pay an annual fee

It can be done with free software, and thus no one would need to pay even once for Affinity to do what you did in producing your PDF.

 

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, William Overington said:

I consider that the Share your work forum should be for people to post anything they choose as long as it is not unsuitable for family viewing and has involved using Affinity software somewhere in the process.

I suspect you would find it quite difficult to find even one other regular contributor to this community that shares that opinion, or perhaps more to the point that if accepted would not lead to huge numbers of posts that were of interest to very few if any Affinity users, making it considerably more difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

Regardless, you asked here for opinions about what is acceptable to post the the Share Your Work forum, & you have gotten many replies to that, none of which agree with yours, despite all your followup posts trying to justify yours.

Perhaps it's time to give it a rest & move on to more productive uses of your time & ours? 

Edited January 13 by R C-R
fixed typo

[William Overington]

56 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Perhaps it's time to give it a rest & move on ...

Yes. Thank you to everybody who has participated in this discussion.

William Overington

Saturday 13 January 2024

[William Overington]

In the post

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/197254-write-text-for-image-creation/&do=findComment&comment=1164074

there is a statement as to what can be posted.

> The 'Share your work' section of the Forums are designed for sharing work specifically created within or using the Affinity apps.
When sharing work, we ask users to provide an explanation of the tools/workflows they used with the Affinity apps, so that other members can have a better idea of the possibilities of the Affinity apps functions - though this is not a strict requirement.

Please note the use of the word "or" in bold type.

By that definition my post that was hidden was perfectly fine for posting in the Share your work section of the forums.

William

[Patrick Connor]

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

In the post

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/197358-ai-text-suggestion/&do=findComment&comment=1164074

there is a statement as to what can be posted.

That post has been deleted, and the replies including yours, moved to their first (already locked) duplicate thread 

I had already moved that users first (identical) thread from the share your work forum, but only left it visible in order to tell the new user what they had done wrong and in doing so we demonstrated to others we do not allow posts like that by locking the thread.

[Patrick Connor]

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

By that definition my post that was hidden was perfectly fine for posting in the Share your work section of the forums.

 

No it was not. If you want to play semantics (which you always do) then I could change the definition of what is allowed to make sure they are excluded. Stop bellyaching. Just assume that we will not allow them no matter what the wording says, because that is what is happening, like it or not.

[William Overington]

40 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

... I could change the definition of what is allowed to make sure they are excluded.

That would be helpful please. 

William

 

[Patrick Connor]

8 minutes ago, William Overington said:

That would be helpful please. 

William

 "These Forums are not for sharing AI created artwork, or discussions regarding AI prompts to create specific images.

The 'Share your work' section of the Forums are designed for sharing work specifically created within or using the Affinity apps.

When sharing work, we ask users to provide an explanation of the tools/workflows they used with the Affinity apps, so that other members can have a better idea of the possibilities of the Affinity apps functions - though this is not a strict requirement."

Opening a picture or photo and then printing or exporting it unedited is not sufficient to be covered under the term "using", even though technically English is unclear on this. "using" in that sentence means adding to or changing in a significant or non-obvious, novel or interesting way that others may appreciate.   

[William Overington]

Thank you.

Could that statement be displayed in the heading of the Share your work forum please?

William

 

[Patrick Connor]

13 minutes ago, William Overington said:

Could that statement be displayed in the heading of the Share your work forum please?

 

I have now done that, but nobody else seems confused and if they are I will tell them

[William Overington]

Thank you for doing that.

I am not confused. If there is a stated rule then I know what is the rule and I will comply with it.

Until that post of the lady feeding the okapi was hidden I thought that the scope was otherwise.

I now realize that some, maybe a lot, of my posts from before do not align with the rule that is now stated.

At the time I posted the thread

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/169391-language-independent-signs-for-art-galleries/

I thought that it was fine as a Share your work forum post.

Yet it is in Affinity Designer use terms (only) setting out three items and producing a PDF document.

I will, of course, comply with the rule that you have stated.

William

 

 

[William Overington]

17 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

The 'Share your work' section of the Forums are designed for sharing work specifically created within or using the Affinity apps.

I notice that the version in your Share your work forum post is different.

In that post

> The 'Share your work' section of the Forums are designed for sharing work specifically created within or edited using the Affinity apps.

The addition of the word "edited" is significant and helpful.

William

[William Overington]

11 days later.

Could you possibly consider please allowing AI generated images where they are used as input to an editing process, so that an AI generated image is allowed on the same basis as a photograph is allowed?

This morning I have used Affinity Designer to edit an AI generated image to get a desired result. This used two Affinity features in combination. Maybe a better result could be achieved, I am not expert at using Affinity software.

The problem and the result thus far are in the following post and the five posts following it.

https://punster.me/serif/viewtopic.php?pid=4116#p4116

Clicking on the pictures will display a larger view.

William

 

 

[v_kyr]

6 minutes ago, William Overington said:

Could you possibly consider please allowing AI generated images where they are used as input to an editing process, so that an AI generated image is allowed on the same basis as a photograph is allowed?

I think Patrick was pretty clear on this "share your work" theme here (see also above) ...

On 1/19/2024 at 4:17 PM, Patrick Connor said:

"These Forums are not for sharing AI created artwork, or discussions regarding AI prompts to create specific images.

The 'Share your work' section of the Forums are designed for sharing work specifically created within or using the Affinity apps.

When sharing work, we ask users to provide an explanation of the tools/workflows they used with the Affinity apps, so that other members can have a better idea of the possibilities of the Affinity apps functions - though this is not a strict requirement."

Opening a picture or photo and then printing or exporting it unedited is not sufficient to be covered under the term "using", even though technically English is unclear on this. "using" in that sentence means adding to or changing in a significant or non-obvious, novel or interesting way that others may appreciate.

So I'm wondering why you're still harping on this theme, as it should have been closed long ago here.

[William Overington]

1 minute ago, v_kyr said:

I think Patrick was pretty clear on this "share your work" theme here (see also above) ...

So I'm wondering why you're still harping on this theme, as it should have been closed long ago here.

It is not a matter of harping on, a new situation has arisen.

It seems reasonable to me that an image generated using an AI system should be allowed to be used as input to editing using Affinity products on the same basis as is a photograph.

I have respected the present ruling, so I have not posted about using Affinity Designer to achieve a first attempt in the Share your work forum.

Yet I have asked here in this thread. I have not asked in the Sharing guidelines thread in the Share your work forum so as not to disrupt Patrick's ruling there.

If it is an image generated outside of Affinity products should whether it is an image produced with a camera or an image produced by an AI system be a dividing line as to whether it is allowed or not allowed?

It seems to me to be a reasonable question asked politely in an appropriate place.

William

 

[Bit Disappointed]

In yonder ring, where men of wit doth meet,
Their words in ceaseless gyres do twist and twine.
No fruit they bear, in endless parley sweet,
In labyrinth of speech, their fates entwine.

Forsooth, their tongues do weave a tapestry,
Of sound and fury, signifying naught.
In mirthful maze of fruitless repartee,
The precious sands of life, unheeded, caught.

In circles traced by time's relentless hand,
They drift in seas of barren discourse deep.
No port of purpose, nor no steadfast land,
In tempest of their idle talk, they weep.

O, wretched squander of the golden prime,
In vapid jest, they lose life's precious time.

[William Overington]

Ah, a sonnet in the Italian style.

https://punster.me/serif/viewtopic.php?id=516&p=2

William

 

[iconoclast]

I think that it isn't important if the image you use is a normal photograph, a drawing or painting or an AI-generated image. The source image is not the point (as far as it doesn't break laws or the rules of these forums). And I think that you already know that. But anyway, I again tell you that the topic in this forums is what you did with the image using Affinity software. It is an Affinity forum. The topic is not AI or what you did with any other software. And it will not be enough to only load an image in an Affinity app to use it as a pretence to post here. But as I already said, I think you know that very well.

[PaulEC]

There is no comparison between a photograph and AI generated images. A good photograph (in the same way as a painting, sculpture etc) requires skill and effort on the part of the artist and results in an original image. AI generated images require no more effort than typing a few words and then letting the AI generate an image for them, usually using other peoples artwork.

To be quite honest, I can see the appeal of AI for people who are frustrated artists, without the skills to create genuine artwork themselves, but that is no excuse for taking other peoples original work, messing about with it, and then claiming it as their own!

[William Overington]

In reply to @iconoclast

Yes, and I have not posted any AI generated image at all in the Share your work forum since Patrick made his ruling.

The only AI generated image that I posted in the Share your work forum was before the ruling. I had an understanding of what was reasonable to post in the Share your work forum that was different from what it has later been stated was intended. In retrospect a number of my earlier posts in the Share your work forum, nothing to do with AI, were based on that different understanding.

I have posted some AI generated images in this discussion thread, but that is a different matter.

William

 

 

 

[iconoclast]

1 minute ago, PaulEC said:

There is no comparison between a photograph and AI generated images. A good photograph (in the same way as a painting, sculpture etc) requires skill and effort on the part of the artist and results in an original image. AI generated images require no more effort than typing a few words and then letting the AI generate an image for them, usually using other peoples artwork.

To be quite honest, I can see the appeal of AI for people who are frustrated artists, without the skills to create genuine artwork themselves, but that is no excuse for taking other peoples original work, messing about with it, and then claiming it as their own!

Even I agree with you, the source image is not important for this forum. The important point is what you did with it using Affinity apps. So AI doesn't really matter here. It is not the topic. And William doesn't seem to do anything with the Affinity apps. At least nothing that is of interest for this forums. That's the point, I think.