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3 hours ago, LuBre said:

To each its own, of course!

That's my point. I just don't think everyone is or ever will be doing things in graphics apps that using AI powered tools would make simpler, better, or faster to do.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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3 hours ago, bug reports only said:

I’m not sure AI needs to be integral to every product, just like chat/comments aren’t integral to every product, nor is ‘multi-player’ support.

I am not sure everybody will want to have AI integrated into the products they use, particularly if it requires sending data back to some server somewhere in cyberspace where it might be collected & mined to be used for purposes that may not be in the user's best interests & done without their consent or knowledge.

There are also potential copyright & ownership issues that as yet have not really been explored much -- if some AI tool does much of the work then who is to say that the work is solely owned by the user? It isn't like a hammer that has no input of its own on the project being built; more like a collaborative effort with some of the input coming directly from the AI.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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@R C-R absolutely. I think that’s why it’s important to allow people to choose whether they use any AI at all (many will want nothing to do with it), and if they do choose to, allowing them to decide which AIs they are comfortable with (ethically, personally, features, etc), and which ones they are not.

If AI is baked directly into the product that personal choice is essentially removed from the user, then making the decision about whether or not to use the product at all, a dilemma we’ve already witnessed with a number of Adobe users in recent months.

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Until the Generative AI type of feature is launched for Affinity, this method can be used. I have tried these Luminar Neo, Canva, Pixlr in a few projects. Generative AI is the major reason I did not upgrade to Affinity Version 2, will wait how Affinity deals with it as AI's impact in image or video editing will be immense in future.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Omkar said:

Generative AI is the major reason I did not upgrade to Affinity Version 2


I still wasn't aware of the AI revolution but Affinity 2.0 didn't really hit me as a meaningful update. It nay be a nice thing to have but it's very marginal, in my opinion.

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39 minutes ago, LuBre said:


I still wasn't aware of the AI revolution but Affinity 2.0 didn't really hit me as a meaningful update. It nay be a nice thing to have but it's very marginal, in my opinion.

I planned to upgrade after a year. That's why I came to know of the upcoming AI revolution as DALL-E started to bring revolutionary things with Midjourney just coming at that time. Yes, I agree Version 2.0 is not worth the upgrade I still fill for me, it may be great for many, I don't disagree. I will wait for Generative AI features in Affinity. What GIMP and many others could not do for decades, Affinity did that and changed the business completely forever but to hold on to the edge beat the competitors in their discovery of Generative AI feature, I don't think it's impossible. Maybe we can start using DALL-E API-based plugin with credits. It may a bit costly thing, but we can then run the prompts inside the image editor to get the same feel as the competitor and gradually, if an AI model can be built or integrated for a yearly fee for unlimited prompts that can also put up a great challenge as all will not need the AI feature, so people will still buy the software as one time price but just use the AI for a fixed yearly or monthly cost.

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My next upgrade would be once generative fill is implemented (in 2 to 4 years I hope). I mean version 1 is more than enough for me, and I'm sure it's the same for the most of us pros and non-pros. I've used older versions of Adobe for years.

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On 6/30/2023 at 4:51 PM, CM0 said:

I just wrote a summary of more of my thoughts on generative AI and potential implications for what that might mean in a broader context for AI as it moves into other domains.

For anyone interested in the topic - https://www.mindprison.cc/p/ai-art-challenges-meaning-in-a-world

Interesting read; is Ai art theft, I would say no, the reason for that is, it doesn't take bits of each reference picture and blend them together to form a whole new image, it holds the picture's as a reference, like a person looks at a painting to work out how it was constructed, it refers to the pictures, it mimics and blends style, colouration, movement of stroke, placement of tone, shading, it looks at the prompt subject and constructs a referenced picture, not bits of pictures based on prompts, but digital strokes to build as a painter would.

Name a corporeal artist that doesn't do the same? All artist's have studied previous art, chosen a style they like and copied the style, created a style based on it, or been influenced in some way to make their style.

Everything we see, feel, smell, hear and taste build our human reference library, Ai only has an "see" that it learns from, so we are ahead of the game/Ai. If we paint an image; in whatever medium we choose, all of the experience's we have had up to that point, go into each stroke of the brush, pen, pencil, pastel etc, this is a subconscious action but nevertheless it influences our movement to create. You can have identical twins that are both artists/creators but they will never be able to make identical art because of their nuanced variation of experiences influence their mind and hand.

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The legal aspect still gets discussed. What currently happens with text might also affect images sooner or later, as sources for AI or as resulting images:

Quote

"… suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement. The lawsuits allege the companies trained their AI models on their works without their consent."

https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/9/23788741/sarah-silverman-openai-meta-chatgpt-llama-copyright-infringement-chatbots-artificial-intelligence-ai

https://llmlitigation.com/

https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/generative-ai-content.html

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6 hours ago, firstdefence said:

Interesting read; is Ai art theft, I would say no, the reason for that is, it doesn't take bits of each reference picture and blend them together to form a whole new image, it holds the picture's as a reference, like a person looks at a painting to work out how it was constructed, it refers to the pictures, it mimics and blends style, colouration, movement of stroke, placement of tone, shading, it looks at the prompt subject and constructs a referenced picture, not bits of pictures based on prompts, but digital strokes to build as a painter would.

Thank you, yes that is mostly my perspective. I know there is debate over the exact method AI uses, but the trajectory is clear. The intention is for AI to mimic human learning and research is all focused on making advancements in that direction. Therefore, even if there are legal issues that have merit for now, they won't forever as there will become no distinction of method between human and AI. Which means whatever impacts AI has on the world we are going to have to reason about them and deal with them as law is unlikely to provide any protection against the disruption.

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5 minutes ago, CM0 said:

Therefore, even if there are legal issues that have merit for now, they won't forever as there will become no distinction of method between human and AI. Which means whatever impacts AI has on the world we are going to have to reason about them and deal with them as law is unlikely to provide any protection against the disruption.

Not only the human being is used since ages to deal with lies, imagination and reality differently and individually, not only concerning visual aspects. Nowadays you hardly surprise people if a person got removed from or added to a photo … as this manipulation still appeared to be worth newspaper articles and discussions 10 years ago, for instance:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/north-korea-has-photoshop.457150/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107109/Iconic-Abraham-Lincoln-portrait-revealed-TWO-pictures-stitched-together.html

The lobby for "fake news" can seem bigger than expected when we consider the use of images, texts, sounds and emotions in advertising and on packaging that insist on retaining their freedom to make us believe in "beautiful" ideas while we tend to prefer them to reality. How many milk packages show cows in a barn?

https://packagingoftheworld.com/2014/07/woolworths-select-fresh-milk.html

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On 5/24/2023 at 7:20 AM, Lee_T said:

Hi WMax70,

There are no plans for this at present.

Lee

Years back Bill Lear, founder of the popular Learjet based in Wichita, Kansas, was asked why Learjet didn't make luxury jets that were wider and taller so people could actually stand in them?  His reply was succinct, "You can't stand in a Cadillac either."   The approach to not evolving a product that the people enjoyed using eventually led to their demise.  Learjet is no more with the final delivery of a Learjet 75 coming on March 28, 2022. 

Hopefully the choice that Affinity is making regarding AI doesn't end in a similar manner.  I like Affinity Photo but at the same time, I'm not opposed to using a different product that innovates and keeps up with current technologies, either natively or through third-party plug-ins.

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On 6/8/2023 at 6:39 PM, evtonic3 said:

Apple's new vision pro AR headset is just an example of the world we are headed towards and will Affinity still be around? 

A growing number of people, in the Western countries, can't understand what they read or listen to. And it is going even worse with young students. So, there will be a growing space for faked reality, but still a niche for those who can understand what they see or read, and maybe just need to improve the way they communicate about the real world.

Paolo

 

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15 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

A growing number of people, in the Western countries, can't understand what they read or listen to. And it is going even worse with young students. So, there will be a growing space for faked reality, but still a niche for those who can understand what they see or read, and maybe just need to improve the way they communicate about the real world.

Paolo

 

 

The VR headset is yet another failed attempt to create a better Second Life, which came out in 2003. People don't want a heavy and cumbersome headset. They don't want a slow-duration battery. They don't want to feel like weirdos moving their hands (like weirdos), alone, in a room.

But...

... People will definitely want to take advantage of the same tools we use today (content aware filler tool) if they come out with a better engine under the hood (AI-powered content aware filler tool) . These kind of AI-assisted tools will  be extremely useful to any kind of user. The pro, the hobbyist, whatever. 

It's not an "if", in my opinion. It's just a matter of "when" and "how". 

The amount of things you can do with Photoshop Beta, right now, is mind-blowing already. I am not referring to funny/stupid stuff like "Add a flying sausage and a dancing dog to my wedding photo". These are silly experiments. Where the AI-tool shines, is in one of those endless situations where you need to retouch/fill content as fast as you can, without wasting your day (example: cleaning pictures, adding/extending backgrounds areas, filling broken elements, cleaning/improving hair and fur, etc).

Arguing that AI is useless in this scenario is very naive, in my opinion. If you can't see its power (in this specific context) you should watch one of the many YouTube videos and better understand the context, the utility and the real benefits you get from it.

 

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On 6/19/2023 at 5:10 PM, LuBre said:

Procrastination

Procrastination refers to the act of delaying or postponing tasks, activities, or responsibilities that need to be accomplished. That doesn’t have anything to do with my comment. It seems you misinterpreted it or didn’t understand the argument. I will put it simple: AI isn’t a problem solver. It’s a nice feature or service to have for reference and brainstorming. That’s it.

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18 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

I will put it simple: AI isn’t a problem solver. It’s a nice feature or service to have for reference and brainstorming. That’s it.


I think nobody ever said that an AI content aware tool would be a 100% problem solver. Almost everyone here already said, that tool would only be a better version of the already available non-AI content aware tool. It's just another plugin we that can add to our arsenal. It works extremely well, it makes our job faster/better and even more fun and interesting. I've been messing with Photoshop Beta and the productivity boost/quality is insane.

I think that completely ignoring this huge evolutionary step in the industry...Would be a (very) bad choice. As said before, this attitude has a strong BlackBerry vibe, in my opinion.

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11 minutes ago, LuBre said:

I think that completely ignoring this huge evolutionary step in the industry...Would be a (very) bad choice. As said before, this attitude has a strong BlackBerry vibe, in my opinion.

You seem to forget or exclude that it still can be faster to choose a picture that already has the wanted orientation. The amount of available images will not decrease and a search by keywords / orientation is easier to realize than a content aware filler tool.

I remember development that got hyped for a while … and disappeared soon. For instance mosaic software that created an image of a bunch of other images, auto-sorted by hue & brightness and auto-arranged accordingly. Or Flash-intros on websites. Or the Sony MiniDisc. Or additional brake-lights, mounted in the rear windows of cars. Or ZIP-drives, or its predecessor with max. 40 or 200 MB. … samples, that didn't really make it for long. If you consider smart phone cameras then even even Kodak's digital camera ignorance doesn't work anymore as a warning example.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 only

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On 6/30/2023 at 5:06 AM, Bryan Rieger said:

@R C-R absolutely. I think that’s why it’s important to allow people to choose whether they use any AI at all (many will want nothing to do with it), and if they do choose to, allowing them to decide which AIs they are comfortable with (ethically, personally, features, etc), and which ones they are not.

If AI is baked directly into the product that personal choice is essentially removed from the user, then making the decision about whether or not to use the product at all, a dilemma we’ve already witnessed with a number of Adobe users in recent months.

It seems that implementing an AI feature in a product that previously functioned without it should not be difficult to manage. Toggling the AI on and off or setting it to learn only from previously created artifacts on a local level, or enabling it to learn from all designers within the company under the same license group on a corporate level, are all viable options. These variations are not too far-fetched that's still provide options. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/30/2023 at 3:06 AM, Bryan Rieger said:

@R C-R absolutely. I think that’s why it’s important to allow people to choose whether they use any AI at all (many will want nothing to do with it), and if they do choose to, allowing them to decide which AIs they are comfortable with (ethically, personally, features, etc), and which ones they are not.

If AI is baked directly into the product that personal choice is essentially removed from the user, then making the decision about whether or not to use the product at all, a dilemma we’ve already witnessed with a number of Adobe users in recent months.

"Personal choice" is ultimately determined by the user. If you really don't want to use these AI tools for whatever reason you always have the option to not use them. I feel like not adding these new features now makes Affinity Photo an incomplete product comparatively speaking.

Edited by paydobe
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On 7/13/2023 at 4:12 PM, thomaso said:

Or Flash-intros on websites. Or the Sony MiniDisc. Or additional brake-lights, mounted in the rear windows of cars. Or ZIP-drives, or its predecessor with max. 40 or 200 MB. … samples, that didn't really make it for long.


I really don't understand how anyone working with Affinity Photo wouldn't want to use an AI-powered content aware tool. 

If you don't like it, if you feel it's wrong or simply not powerful enough... Don't use it!

Seriously, it's that easy. Just like using layers, masks or any other software-assisted tool or plugin. How can anyone possibly argue that an AI-assisted tool is a fad, useless or anything like that... I really don't get it.

Look at what you can do with Photoshop (beta). It's already there, no words are needed to explain the immense versatility of that new AI tool.

AI is here to stay, it's not a BlackBerry thing.

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4 minutes ago, LuBre said:

If you like it, you use it.

Yes, no need to discuss. – Whereas my post didn't refer to "like" it was arguments on your frequent BlackBerry example alias BlackProphecy of what will happen to Serif if they don't …

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 only

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19 hours ago, thomaso said:

my post didn't refer to "like" it was arguments on your frequent BlackBerry example alias BlackProphecy of what will happen to Serif if they don't …


Yes, in that sense I honestly believe that Serif will be forced to follow the trend, whether they like it or not.

AI-powered tools will be almost everywhere and will soon become mandatory. AI-based tools are just that: tools. If they work as intended and make our working life easier... People will want/pretend them in their paid software. Layers and mask, for example, are something we already take as "granted". Nobody would want to work with an image editing tool without layers, in 2023.

AI-assisted tools will become mandatory, sooner than later. In that sense, I hope that Serif will deep dive into it as soon as possible.

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