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4 minutes ago, Ben said:

real life raster sources (or photos as normal people call them)

 

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3 hours ago, Ben said:

I did all my testing using our own data format based on real life raster sources (or photos as normal people call them).

Not to be confused with CRT raster images, what some of us perhaps not-so-normal old timers still think of when the word "raster" is used. 301.gif

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On 7/28/2015 at 7:53 AM, TonyB said:

One thing Affinity Photo does by default is create a snapshot of your original image. This is useful for tools like the undo brush and other features but it does increase the file size when saved. We plan on making this optional for users that want to keep their files small.

Great make it so...

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Yes, please do!

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On 9/21/2017 at 10:38 PM, R C-R said:

Not to be confused with CRT raster images, what some of us perhaps not-so-normal old timers still think of when the word "raster" is used. 

In many european languages "raster" means "halftone", or the dots that make up the halftone.

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And in Jamaica it means something entirely different again...

 

But, we are talking about bitmaps (pixels) when we say "raster".

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13 hours ago, ioserg said:

Hi, I just switched to Affinity Photo and I noticed that my .afdesign files are between 50 and 100MB. Usually, my files were 5MB using photoshop.

I've attached the original jpeg and .afdesign files.

 

Am I missing something?

FileSizeIssue.zip

 

I imported the jpeg into Photoshop and Affinity -

Without edits, PSD is 23.8MB, and Affinity file is 2.9MB.  Once you edit a layer, then it will be converted to a Pixel layer, which is uncompressed.

 

I see you afphoto file has a number of pixel layers.  That will account for most of the file size.  These layers are also full Pixel layers, and so will be large. This is to be expected.  Your file also has a snapshot, deleting that and re-saving brings your file down from 81.2MB to 54.4MB.

 

I also took your afphoto file, exported it as PSD, then resaved it through Photoshop.  Our PSD is 58MB, Photoshops PSD is 62MB.

 

So - it looks like our handling of your document is more efficient than Photoshop in every case.

 

There is no way that Photoshop would save a 6.5 megapixel image in 5MB.  Are you sure you got your numbers right??

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3 hours ago, Fixx said:

In many european languages "raster" means "halftone", or the dots that make up the halftone.

The word "raster" first appeared in the English language in the 1930's as a term for the rectangular pattern of parallel scan lines made by an electron beam on a TV or computer monitor. It was borrowed from the German word which literally means "screen," which in turn came from the Latin word "rastrum," which means "rake," as in scraping across a surface.

So from a historical perspective, it is not as logical a choice as "bitmap" would be in this context, but the evolution of language is not always logical so either term is often used to mean the same thing.

2 hours ago, Ben said:

And in Jamaica it means something entirely different again...

I and I and me mon tink you might be tinking about a slightly different word. ;)

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1 minute ago, R C-R said:

I and I and me mon tink you might be tinking about a slightly different word. ;)

I know - just joking. ;)

 

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4 hours ago, Ben said:

 

I imported the jpeg into Photoshop and Affinity -

Without edits, PSD is 23.8MB, and Affinity file is 2.9MB.  Once you edit a layer, then it will be converted to a Pixel layer, which is uncompressed.

 

I see you afphoto file has a number of pixel layers.  That will account for most of the file size.  These layers are also full Pixel layers, and so will be large. This is to be expected.  Your file also has a snapshot, deleting that and re-saving brings your file down from 81.2MB to 54.4MB.

 

I also took your afphoto file, exported it as PSD, then resaved it through Photoshop.  Our PSD is 58MB, Photoshops PSD is 62MB.

 

So - it looks like our handling of your document is more efficient than Photoshop in every case.

 

There is no way that Photoshop would save a 6.5 megapixel image in 5MB.  Are you sure you got your numbers right??

Thanks for your reply, I didn't mean that this specific file was 5MB in PS, I meant the usual files I used to work with. I can't check on PS because I got both Designer and Photo, and I canceled my CC subscription, but if I "do the math", I still don't think it should be this large.

1 image (the building) is 2.5 MB, and it appears in 2 layers = 5MB total

1 image (the sky) is 400kb, and it appears once.

1 svg (the logo) is less than 100kb, and it appears once with a color overlay effect and opacity.

I also use one mask, a level adjustment, and tone mapping.

 

Should this really go up to more than 50MB?

 

Thanks again Ben

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@ioserg

You will find that Affinity files are big, sometimes very big and sometimes inexplicably big for what they contain

Various reasons have been given for this from the Devs (and what you can try to reduce the file size) which you can find in this forum but the bottom line is that compared to what you may have used before Affinity does/can create substantially bigger project files.

So budget on using more space for your files and increased backup times as your usage of Affinity increases.

But don't rush out and purchase additional external drives or cloud storage to directly work from, as Affinity does not play totally nice with them at the moment either.

Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be worried about.

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Just wanted to say how impressed I am that Affinity developers engage in such a constructive, open, cheerful and  polite way with the community on this forum.

This simply doesn't happen with any other application (let alone suite of applications) that I use.

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7 minutes ago, haakoo said:

The tonemapping does add a big chunk to the file as does any other live filters
See my files 
first without tonemapping
second with tonemapping

220170303-231124.afphoto

20170303-231124.afphoto

Why would live filters add to the size of files? They're just code that tells Photo what to do to the layers, no? Isn't it the purpose of live filters to do stuff without storing the end result as a flattened layer which would increase file size?

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4 minutes ago, haakoo said:

The tonemapping does add a big chunk to the file as does any other live filters
See my files 
first without tonemapping
second with tonemapping

220170303-231124.afphoto

20170303-231124.afphoto

In this case, the smaller file (2MB) contains the compressed JPEG—I'm assuming you just opened a JPEG and saved it as an .afphoto file?

After tone mapping, the pixel layer now has to be converted to uncompressed pixel data, which accounts for the new file size of 41MB. Live filters however shouldn't have much file size overhead, do you know for certain that they are increasing the file size or are you using them in conjunction with other filters/pixel editing work?

Quote

But don't rush out and purchase additional external drives or cloud storage to directly work from, as Affinity does not play totally nice with them at the moment either.

Are you able to explain in more detail? I use an external drive with Dropbox for all my .afphoto documents and haven't had any issues, and before Dropbox I was using Google Drive without any issues...

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1 minute ago, James Ritson said:
Quote

But don't rush out and purchase additional external drives or cloud storage to directly work from, as Affinity does not play totally nice with them at the moment either.

Are you able to explain in more detail? I use an external drive with Dropbox for all my .afphoto documents and haven't had any issues, and before Dropbox I was using Google Drive without any issues...

There have been various reports of work being lost when an external drive or cloud service connection is lost (even briefly).  You get an unrecoverable error and cannot save your current work even to a local drive, so have to revert to a last saved backup if you have one.

I believe Serif have it logged as a bug but officially/unofficially they have been recommending you work on local drives to avoid this problem.

But you can of course save your backups to external drives and cloud services

Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be worried about.

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34 minutes ago, haakoo said:

It isn't about the rake as verb but as noun

It is even less logical if the noun meaning referred to the implement but I think it probably came from a verbal meaning, in the sense of scraping, sweeping, or moving across. My dictionary says both the noun & verb are of Germanic origin & also related to the Dutch "raak," which mean 'to heap up,' & that the verb is partly from Old Norse "raka," which means 'to scrape.'

But regardless, all I was trying to say is language often is not logical or unambiguous. Raster, bitmap, pixel, point, line, image, mask, dot, & type are among the many terms can mean different things in different contexts. Not much we can do about that other than trying to make sure we all are talking about the same context when asking or answering questions or whatever. 

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17 minutes ago, Alex_M said:

Why would live filters add to the size of files? They're just code that tells Photo what to do to the layers, no? Isn't it the purpose of live filters to do stuff without storing the end result as a flattened layer which would increase file size?

The purpose of a live filter is to enable a non-destructive workflow. In this respect it is similar to history & snapshots. How much file space they require is a different matter, in part related to the methods the apps use to provide fast zooming & panning, efficient use of memory & other system resources, & so on.

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1 hour ago, ioserg said:

Thanks for your reply, I didn't mean that this specific file was 5MB in PS, I meant the usual files I used to work with. I can't check on PS because I got both Designer and Photo, and I canceled my CC subscription, but if I "do the math", I still don't think it should be this large.

1 image (the building) is 2.5 MB, and it appears in 2 layers = 5MB total

1 image (the sky) is 400kb, and it appears once.

1 svg (the logo) is less than 100kb, and it appears once with a color overlay effect and opacity.

I also use one mask, a level adjustment, and tone mapping.

 

Should this really go up to more than 50MB?

 

Thanks again Ben

If your source images are JPEGs, then yes - they are heavily compressed, but we (as does Photoshop) will save them with lossless compression which will result in them being much larger.

 

As I demonstrated - we do a better job than PSD when saving out an identical document - so this expansion in file size is totally as expected.

 

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51 minutes ago, carl123 said:

There have been various reports of work being lost when an external drive or cloud service connection is lost (even briefly).  You get an unrecoverable error and cannot save your current work even to a local drive, so have to revert to a last saved backup if you have one.

I believe Serif have it logged as a bug but officially/unofficially they have been recommending you work on local drives to avoid this problem.

But you can of course save your backups to external drives and cloud services

Don't conflate cloud storage and external drives.

 

Cloud storage will still use local storage, but trickle upload the changes to the cloud.  To my knowledge the major cloud storage providers should be ok with Affinity.  There are the usual issues where people attempt to keep a document open on two or more devices that are saving to the same cloud stored file.  We do the conflict resolution for iCloud, but I don't really know what people expect when using other services that don't do the conflict resolution....

 

External drives - it depends if you are talking about USB storage or network shares. Both have their issues, which we have resolved mostly. 1.7 will also have some improvements in that area.  Most USB storage issues have been caused by people pulling out a device before it has finished writing.  We have also identified serious failures with certain NAS devices (Synology being the main one) that had nothing to do with Affinity directly, but were triggered by how we handle files.

Our main reason for advising people to use local storage is speed.  It is fine to backup to an external device, but why would you chose to throttle performance by working directly on a USB device?  I've been testing with my Mac Fusion drive and a Gigabit NAS, and the load/save time differences are HUGE.

 

And, what crazy person would mix cloud storage with external USB storage.......?

 

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41 minutes ago, Ben said:

And, what crazy person would mix cloud storage with external USB storage.......?

"Yeah! Who would do such a crazy thing?" (he said, looking around nervously to see if anyone was looking at him)  whistle.gif

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