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I am having an hard time trying to figure out how to use the Swatches properly.

There is three different kinds of palette... Application, Document, System. Why not only one palette?

when I open the application palette it gives me Registration and Calage. What is the difference between the two?

Also the CMYK values are wrong.  

1332528263_Capturedcran2019-05-1715_29_12.png.bad235c1f6c51342a7e61f81f73629c9.png

 

It will simplify the swatches window to have a palette by default that you can customize to you needs when no document is open. Like in Indesign.

 

 

 

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Well... you are right... I wasn't expecting it to work that way. I realize now that's a palette I created myself before.

Still, I find it perturbing to dissociate application palette and document palette (I don't understand the use of  system palette)

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An application palette allows you to create a palette of colors you use frequently across many documents.  It is stored on your computer so that it is available no matter what document you open, but if the document is taken to another computer, it does not "travel" with the document.

A document palette is stored as part of the document and is only available when that specific document is open, so it needs to be recreated or imported separately into each document you want to use it with; however, it does "travel" with the document and is thus available on any computer the document is opened on.

A system palette is the same as an application palette, except that it is available in applications other than the Affinity products.

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Thank you for the explanation.

I should be able to set an application palette with no document open.

With no document open, I create a new application palette. I can't Add Global Color (greyed out). The only way I see to add something is to click the icon  Add the current fill to palette. I get R:255 G:255 B:255. The Edit fill (right click in the color patch) don't allow me to convert RGB into CMYK...

Is this a bug or am I not using it properly?

Capture d’écran 2019-05-18 à 08.34.49.png

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55 minutes ago, postmadesign said:

Global colors can only be added to document palettes,

Yes, and that is the confusing point, too. – Why various palettes, and why this need to switch between palettes at all?

Even if I create a global swatch with no document opened, and alter its values within a document – why should there be only an either-or? Instead I'd expect to continue working with my altered swatch within this document - and still have its original swatch version (so called application palette) for New Documents or existing documents were I did not change it.

Compare how other application presets get handled in AfPub, for instance Color Profiles and Page Size Preset: they both exist parallel for application AND document and both may be changed globally any time, either in a document or application wide without conflict.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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If a "global color" could be added to an application palette, then when the document was opened on another computer where that palette did not exist, there would be no way to know what color to display for it.  It only makes sense for global colors to be supported at the document level.

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Maybe Global color... should be renamed Document color... as it can't be applied to an application palette.

And why name a newly created color "Global color 1", " Global color 2"... It's meaningless. Why not name it with its name (like Pantone 7557 C or by values). I have no way to see if it's a spot color CMYK, RGB...

1529878689_Capturedcran2019-05-1909_06_43.png.05c8d7cfb15034484d822c6372dfe83f.png

(I am not using Affinity Designer nor Affinity Photo. Therefore I am not familiar with the  swatch window who is the same across the 3 apps.)

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11 hours ago, fde101 said:

If a "global color" could be added to an application palette, then when the document was opened on another computer where that palette did not exist, there would be no way to know what color to display for it.  It only makes sense for global colors to be supported at the document level.

Good point - but probably not as intended: Though an objects color gets saved independent of a swatch, this situation is happening already - regardless of normal or global color swatches:

As soon as you change a color swatch in a document palette, then it...
– remains changed after closing this document.
– is does not appear as a swatch on another computer.
– although its color got definitely saved with the document.

That brings me back to questioning these different types of pallets. What would prevent swatches from acting as both? Once a global document swatch has been modified, its color is saved already with the document – And it could be displayed as a swatch when you open such a document, if that swatch does not already exist.

– Again, why those different palette types at all?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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To me, global colors are very useful, as i create layouts where specific elements have specific colors. Global colors make it easy to change the color of each of these elements in one go. Of course this should be document based, as otherwise it would change the colors of another document with the same layout. I agree that having 3 types of palettes is slightly confusing though, so perhaps the idea of having document swatches within a regular palette might be worth investigating, as it would prevent me switching between the different types. Or perhaps it would be possible to add a standard document palette when creating a document, instead of creating it from scratch.

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I still can't quite wrap my head around Affinity's version of Swatches as well. It seems to me like they're trying to meld what Adobe calls Color/Swatch Books into the Swatches, but it just makes it more confusing.

I think the panel needs some tweaks so there are:

- Document swatches (available for the currently open file only)

- Application/Global swatches (available for any file)

- Color Books (the system palette, Pantone books etc)

Also, new swatches should by default be named by their values if not given a name (for example, C=100 M=0 Y=0 K=0).

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If I copy an object with a document-swatch assigned and paste it into another .afpub, then its swatch is missing.
This behavior is especially annoying because I seem to be forced to use document palettes – and must not use application palette only – if I want to use global swatches. So ...

–> A global color swatch is, in my mind, hierarchical over a non-global swatch.
––>  Since global swatches have to be in document palettes then, consequently, a document palette would hierarchical be over other palettes.
–––>  That makes it confusing, too: Whereas any application swatch is available in other documents, No swatch from a documents palette comes to another document with copied objects.

There seems to be no way to transfer selected object's swatches between .afpubs.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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There is no hierarchy here of any kind - you seem to be treating this as being more complicated than it actually is, and trying to implement suggestions like supporting global colors in application palettes or copying the swatches over to a different document along with an object would generally make things more confusing rather than less.

 

There are only two types of color swatches:

  • Global colors are linked together so they can be changed in one place.
  • Non-global colors are copied to the objects they are used on rather than being linked.

 

It is the difference between the assets panel and the symbols panel in Designer: When you drag in an asset you get a copy; when you drag in a symbol it is linked.  Global colors act more like symbols while non-global colors act more like assets.  Assigning colors from non-swatch sources (such as the color panel) works more like non-global swatches.

 

Application and system palettes can only contain non-global colors, for reasons already outlined above.

Document palettes can contain both types.

 

The concept of renaming to "document color" ignores that non-global colors can also be included in document palettes.

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@fde101, I think I am aware of all this. To me you simply describe the momentary situation as is. But it appears not reduce confusion and complexity.

A practical example:

– You have created a map with particular swatches for various elements: Ground, road, village, castle, tree, lake.
– Now you want to copy those – one of each – with their swatches to start working on a new map with same elements.
– There you also want to create both new elements using same colors, and as well new elements which must not get existing colors.

––> How would you copy those existing elements – with 'normal', global or spot-color assigned – to another .afpub document if you want to make sure their swatches will be transferred, too?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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5 minutes ago, thomaso said:

How would you copy those existing elements – with 'normal', global or spot-color assigned – to another .afpub document if you want to make sure their swatches will be transferred, too?

Duplicate the existing document then remove what you don't need.

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8 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Duplicate the existing document then remove what you don't need.

Oh, copy/paste impossible? – That is what call "complicated".


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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I have found a weird thing with setting default palettes for a color space. I created a set of colors, saved as application palette, then set it as default for CMYK. Now when I create a new CMYK document this palette it actually includes this palette as a document palette... I can still select the application palette I created too, but this makes little sense to me. Also, you can create as many document palettes as you want, which makes it rather confusing too. Shouldn't there just be one palette per document?

One handy feature Indesign has, which I have used several times, is the ability to import the swatches from another document. I would like to see this ability in publisher too. 

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12 minutes ago, postmadesign said:

One handy feature Indesign has, which I have used several times, is the ability to import the swatches from another document. I would like to see this ability in publisher too. 

Im sure you are aware of the fact that you can export the colour Palette and import it to another document. So in a way you can do it already.

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

@fde101, I think I am aware of all this. To me you simply describe the momentary situation as is. But it appears not reduce confusion and complexity.

A practical example:

– You have created a map with particular swatches for various elements: Ground, road, village, castle, tree, lake.
– Now you want to copy those – one of each – with their swatches to start working on a new map with same elements.
– There you also want to create both new elements using same colors, and as well new elements which must not get existing colors.

––> How would you copy those existing elements – with 'normal', global or spot-color assigned – to another .afpub document if you want to make sure their swatches will be transferred, too?

You can create a set of swatches in a document, including global colors, and export this set. If you create a new document, you can then import these as a document palette. The global colors are preserved. If you import it as application or system palette, the global color becomes a regular swatch.

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4 minutes ago, Seneca said:

Im sure you are aware of the fact that you can export the colour Palette and import it to another document. So in a way you can do it already.

Yes I do know this, but in some situations I have not saved a palette for it, so I would have to open the document first, export it and import into the new document. It can easily be done, but the other way is just slightly more convenient. :14_relaxed:

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31 minutes ago, postmadesign said:

You can create a set of swatches in a document, including global colors, and export this set. If you create a new document, you can then import these as a document palette. The global colors are preserved. If you import it as application or system palette, the global color becomes a regular swatch. 

Again, a workaround, no copy/paste as I asked how to do. Even worse with that way: I am not allowed to select all unwanted imported swatches but need to do it with several clicks for each single swatch.

Or, with other words:

31 minutes ago, postmadesign said:

Yes I do know this, but (...) I would have to (...) export it and import into the new document. It can easily be done, but the other way is just slightly more convenient. :14_relaxed:

Isn't it?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

@fde101, I think I am aware of all this. To me you simply describe the momentary situation as is. But it appears not reduce confusion and complexity.

A practical example:

– You have created a map with particular swatches for various elements: Ground, road, village, castle, tree, lake.
– Now you want to copy those – one of each – with their swatches to start working on a new map with same elements.
– There you also want to create both new elements using same colors, and as well new elements which must not get existing colors.

––> How would you copy those existing elements – with 'normal', global or spot-color assigned – to another .afpub document if you want to make sure their swatches will be transferred, too?

Just curious, what program does this? I don't know of this option in Illustrator or Indesign? If you would create many maps with the same basic elements, with slight variations for each, would it be so difficult to create a base palette and import it?

You could also create a base file with all the elements and colors that are shared between maps, including assets and colors. Then save this document and use it as a template for all maps. Much as @fde101 described.

I am not sure why the method you described would be much more efficient.

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35 minutes ago, postmadesign said:

Just curious, what program does this?

InDesign:

1. create a document
2. create an object and select it
3. create a new swatch
4. copy the object
5. close the document. – Notice, that the new swatch disappears from the swatches panel.
6. create a new document
7. place the object. – Notice that the new swatch appears in the swatches panel.
 

40 minutes ago, postmadesign said:

I am not sure why the method you described would be much more efficient. 

Because I would not have to toggle around with different kinds of palettes or export/import files for any client or project.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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