Affinity products for Linux

[wonderings]

1 hour ago, Pufty said:

For the answer to your question, a qoute from your quoted message " I hate Windows 10 " and I share the same sentiment. I have so many cool words for windows that I'd be banned for inappropriate language. I refuse to switch back to windows if it's just this one software, because Linux is for me, the software just isn't there. I got the 99% working, I just needed Affinity, buuuuuut I could always go back to my toxic ex - adobe. At least they have some success with WINE.

Still, before I decide that I want to be milked monthly for 60 euros, I'll do my design work on a windows device after work hours, I'll remote connect to a windows device, get a virtual machine or get the compatibility layer working.

How often are you really interacting with the OS itself? All the creative is done in the app which is basically the same no matter what OS you are on. I would never make a OS choice for something that does not first support the software I need to use. The software is paramount and the most important piece, everything else is secondary.

If you think 60 Euros is milking you for pro apps that are an industry standard then you might not be charging enough for your work. Adobe is not made or priced for the home hobbiest. We have multiple licenses of Adobe and that is easily covered in half a days work. Not sure why you or anyone would want to make life all that complicated for the sake of an OS.

[Renzatic]

18 minutes ago, wonderings said:

The software is paramount and the most important piece, everything else is secondary.

For me, 90% of the software I use is available in Linux, is generally faster here, and the OS doesn't get gummy over time, requiring me to do housework to get things running smoothly again. I have so many more compelling reasons to stick to Linux than I do to go back to Windows.

The only thing I'm missing is Affinity Photo and Designer. If I had them, either natively, or through WINE, I'd be ticked freaking pink.

But hey, after the Apple event this week, I've decided to sell out, and buy a Mac. I'm still going to push for Affinity on Linux, but I'll have to be an obnoxious hipster about it to fit my new Apple lifestyle.

 

[Pufty]

57 minutes ago, wonderings said:

How often are you really interacting with the OS itself? All the creative is done in the app which is basically the same no matter what OS you are on. I would never make a OS choice for something that does not first support the software I need to use. The software is paramount and the most important piece, everything else is secondary.

If you think 60 Euros is milking you for pro apps that are an industry standard then you might not be charging enough for your work. Adobe is not made or priced for the home hobbiest. We have multiple licenses of Adobe and that is easily covered in half a days work. Not sure why you or anyone would want to make life all that complicated for the sake of an OS.

I use the OS every day. I know I use it, because it has simple use cases we take for granted. For example, you've likely forgotten how often you just Ctrl+Alt+Delete into a Task Manager or Alt+Tab Tab Tab to the next window or hitting the windows key and immediately typing what you want to find. They are windows things that become a habit. I have already noticed that I try to Swing my mouse cursor to the left top of the screen... On the windows work computer (on Linux Gnome it brings an overview of all opened apps and workspaces). Still using windows at work every day, but it's been eating my brains out for a year now and the fact that it's so incorporated in every-day application use is scary, because I have to admit that I'm still being dependent on it... When I hate it.

On Linux my creative work load consists of Blender, Davinci Resolve and would be Affinity, then there's the other load consisting of VS Code - Web Designer. So not always using Design Apps, but still a Designer. I also make use of Computer hardware for playing games. Blender and Affinity are 30% incorporated in my daily work, the rest are creative hobbies and starting to freelance. I'm no big shot painter who ONLY uses ancient elephant tooth-fiber hair for their work or else they may not get the perfect stroke, so I can live without Affinity. Like I lived without Adobe for a while until stumbling upon Affinity. I just don't want to switch again and don't want to wrestle the damn windows updates anymore for some better FPS and render times. I'm limited, which brings me to your 2nd line. 60 Is a lot for me and the cancellation fee with adobe was GOD DAMN 360 EUROS when I couldn't pay the 60! Damn hated adobe for that. Pay was irregular, no freelance jobs at the time, 60 was a month of food. Pay is better now, but I'm still living in low standards, so I have to keep my spending in check. I can afford to pay adobe the 60, but then I'm trapped again. One person and three programs. I mostly end up opening one program a day, but I find use in all three over the month, so it's not ideal or good enough to go back.

 

[wonderings]

On 10/21/2021 at 12:55 PM, Pufty said:

I use the OS every day. I know I use it, because it has simple use cases we take for granted. For example, you've likely forgotten how often you just Ctrl+Alt+Delete into a Task Manager or Alt+Tab Tab Tab to the next window or hitting the windows key and immediately typing what you want to find. They are windows things that become a habit. I have already noticed that I try to Swing my mouse cursor to the left top of the screen... On the windows work computer (on Linux Gnome it brings an overview of all opened apps and workspaces). Still using windows at work every day, but it's been eating my brains out for a year now and the fact that it's so incorporated in every-day application use is scary, because I have to admit that I'm still being dependent on it... When I hate it.

On Linux my creative work load consists of Blender, Davinci Resolve and would be Affinity, then there's the other load consisting of VS Code - Web Designer. So not always using Design Apps, but still a Designer. I also make use of Computer hardware for playing games. Blender and Affinity are 30% incorporated in my daily work, the rest are creative hobbies and starting to freelance. I'm no big shot painter who ONLY uses ancient elephant tooth-fiber hair for their work or else they may not get the perfect stroke, so I can live without Affinity. Like I lived without Adobe for a while until stumbling upon Affinity. I just don't want to switch again and don't want to wrestle the damn windows updates anymore for some better FPS and render times. I'm limited, which brings me to your 2nd line. 60 Is a lot for me and the cancellation fee with adobe was GOD DAMN 360 EUROS when I couldn't pay the 60! Damn hated adobe for that. Pay was irregular, no freelance jobs at the time, 60 was a month of food. Pay is better now, but I'm still living in low standards, so I have to keep my spending in check. I can afford to pay adobe the 60, but then I'm trapped again. One person and three programs. I mostly end up opening one program a day, but I find use in all three over the month, so it's not ideal or good enough to go back.

 

The need is not as dire for you then if you can get by without it. My original post regarding this as to Anon172 who said:

"I am stuck. I can't use any other program for this, (I mean learning another program would be time-consuming) and if I could, there would be fewer features they can offer than Affinity. I can't do my artwork, and literally anything"

[Pufty]

45 minutes ago, wonderings said:

The need is not as dire for you then if you can get by without it. My original post regarding this as to Anon172 who said:

"I am stuck. I can't use any other program for this, (I mean learning another program would be time-consuming) and if I could, there would be fewer features they can offer than Affinity. I can't do my artwork, and literally anything"

And I mean it would be time consuming. I'm still interested in Affinity on Linux, am I not? I share a similar sentiment, I'm just assuming I'm much more uncaring for sacrifice. I held roughly the same perspective from OS to program. I still would be interested in "Affinity products for Linux" and have a sneaking suspicion that more and more people will jump ship with Windows as Linux has gotten friendlier for new users. I already probably mentioned how I am super inexperienced in the whole Linux command console scene, yet here I am... Already used to using Linux daily for almost everything I need and developing user habits.

I'll be here, contributing to the discussion towards supporting Affinity on Linux even if I decide to quit using it, use it through compatibility layers or only at work. I'll still be FOR Affinity on Linux, instead of against. At least that's the impression I'm getting from you

[Renzatic]

6 minutes ago, Pufty said:

Already used to using Linux daily for almost everything I need and developing user habits.

If you use Affinity Photo primarily for painting, I'd suggest learning Krita a bit more. It's arguably a better program for that than AP is, though it is weaker for photo editing.

[Pufty]

26 minutes ago, Renzatic said:

If you use Affinity Photo primarily for painting, I'd suggest learning Krita a bit more. It's arguably a better program for that than AP is, though it is weaker for photo editing.

Not painting much, but I have used it before and will try again. Found it useful to do textures or 'abstract' background art

[HeroicNate]

+1 for Linux version. I would also pay. Professional and paid software can easily exist on Linux with the will to do it.

If Affinity software and clip studio paint were on linux, I would completely switch to linux right now.

[Snapseed]

It is still early days yet but these two developments might have implications for Linux users:

Over the last three years, Chrome has been working to empower web applications that want to push the boundaries of what's possible in the browser. One such web application has been Photoshop. The idea of running software as complex as Photoshop directly in the browser would have been hard to imagine just a few years ago. However, by using various new standardized web technologies, Adobe has now brought a public beta of Photoshop to the web.

https://web.dev/ps-on-the-web/

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/photoshop-web-faq.html

At its annual Max conference, the creative software giant reveals online versions of its flagship apps...Few people thought an app as complex and compute-intensive as Photoshop would be possible on the web. But Adobe today launched a web version of not just Photoshop, but also Illustrator, along with several new online experiences.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/adobe-launches-beta-versions-of-photoshop-illustrator-for-the-web

[gnx]

1 hour ago, Snapseed said:

It is still early days yet but these two developments might have implications for Linux users:

Over the last three years, Chrome has been working to empower web applications that want to push the boundaries of what's possible in the browser. One such web application has been Photoshop. The idea of running software as complex as Photoshop directly in the browser would have been hard to imagine just a few years ago. However, by using various new standardized web technologies, Adobe has now brought a public beta of Photoshop to the web.

https://web.dev/ps-on-the-web/

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/photoshop-web-faq.html

At its annual Max conference, the creative software giant reveals online versions of its flagship apps...Few people thought an app as complex and compute-intensive as Photoshop would be possible on the web. But Adobe today launched a web version of not just Photoshop, but also Illustrator, along with several new online experiences.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/adobe-launches-beta-versions-of-photoshop-illustrator-for-the-web

Yeah, I came here today just to post it. You've been quicker, though

This sounds very promising and as a web developer I'm excited to see such a big application developed with WebAssembly.

[MattyWS]

It's much like Photopea I suppose, though I really *really* don't want to have to use photoshop in web browser just because adobe and affinity are being equally stubborn about supporting only 2/3 of the major OS's. It's sad that affinity doesn't even work through wine... 

I do have a question for the affinity staff though, what would it take for you guys to be convinced that Linux is a good platform for affinity suite?

[LondonSquirrel]

54 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

2/3 of the major OS

There are two major OSs on the desktop: Windows and macOS. There is no third 'major' OS.

[MattyWS]

28 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

There are two major OSs on the desktop: Windows and macOS. There is no third 'major' OS.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinions no matter how wrong. Windows, Mac and Linux are the three major OS's. Linux might be dominant in other areas, like how pretty much the majority of phones, supercomputers and servers are running linux, and in that sense sure you can say "it's not a major desktop OS" in that most people use Windows and the rest of the share goes to Mac then finally Linux... But it's still one of the three major OS's and it runs faster and more secure than windows. Literally the only reason the vast majority use Windows over Linux is;

1) basically all computers that aren't mac come with windows preinstalled and most people aren't bothered about changing their OS
2) most software runs on windows because developers make software for windows, because thats where the majority of users are (which is also partly the reason people stick to windows, it's really unhealthy relationship. Devs dont make software for linux because not many use linux because devs don't make software for linux, which is a stupid cycle)

There is nothing Linux can't do that windows can in theory. People *should* be using the fastest, most secure OS (linux), but people just use what they're handed to them which is windows most of the time. Thankfully this is starting to change. Steamdeck and all steam machines run linux, there are a few brands of pc that come preinstalled with linux most notably System76, which is kind of the apple of the linux world https://system76.com/desktops

So yea, just because you don't use linux doesn't mean it's not in the running. It *is* used by a lot of people, creatives and developers mostly at the moment, gamers secondly and slowly but surely, every day, non-tech-savvy people. Take a look at POP OS. it comes installed of the system76 computers and it's extremely user friendly, so much so that I'd actually set up my grandma a POP_OS pc than a windows pc. It's far more user friendly than windows, far more secure than windows, far *faster* than windows, can do all the normal, every day things people need just like windows can, but without the telemetry and bloatware. The only thing holding Linux back in this case is that developers for niche stuff like what we do need to start developing software for us to use on linux.

Anyway, your comment doesn't help anyone. If you don't use Linux and you don't have a need for affinity photo on linux fine, just don't make anti-comments. I don't use Mac OS but I'm not going to sit here and complain that Serif are wasting time on the Mac version of the software even though like 90% of people use windows. Linux support is being requested because people want it.

[PaulEC]

I think one of the problems is that Linux users often refer to how widespread the use of Linux is, ignoring the fact that it is the number of users who are likely to buy a product that is important, not the number of computers (including servers etc) on which it is installed. If you look at the number of users of Linux on desktop and laptop machines they still only account for something around 2.5% of the market. The question then is, how many of this small number of users are likely to want to purchase the Affinity apps! 

[MattyWS]

1 minute ago, PaulEC said:

I think one of the problems is that Linux users often refer to how widespread the use of Linux is, ignoring the fact that it is the number of users who are likely to buy a product that is important, not the number of computers (including servers etc) on which it is installed. If you look at the number of users of Linux on desktop and laptop machines they still only account for something around 2.5% of the market. The question then is, how many of this small number of users are likely to want to purchase the Affinity apps! 

This is true for now, however it is a growing market with currently no major competing products and if Serif gets in there early, they're going to be *the* suite of choice for photo editing and design work. Sure you have gimp, krita and inkscape, but gimp is like a special needs little brother of photoshop and krita is mostly for painting... and Inkscape is not the most intuitive software to use. The affinity suite blows these away. Photoshop is nowhere to be seen in this marketplace as well so Serif will pretty much get the only share of profits there and make no mistake, more and more people are choosing Linux as their desktop OS. It is a growing market for sure. I think the problem is that normal people who aren't in the know still think of Linux as the 'programmers and hackers OS' which sounds scary and complicated, but it's actually just a regular OS people can use just fine. Linux as a desktop gaming PC solution has the full support of major companies like Valve.

Anyways I think this time next year we will see a huge growth for Linux. the hundreds of distros aside, developing for linux in general means distro can use it (kinda, please serif do not go the route Adobe did with substance designer on linux lol).

[msdobrescu]

I think the math is wrong here, should discuss numbers rather than percentages, because, even though 90% of the machines run Windows, not every of these would need some specific software.

Windows 11 may contribute to balance change due to its hardware requirements, btw.

[PaulEC]

10 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

I think the math is wrong here, should discuss numbers rather than percentages, because, even though 90% of the machines run Windows, not every of these would need some specific software.

This is perfectly true. But, of course, the same applies to Mac and Linux!😉

[Renzatic]

25 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

This is perfectly true. But, of course, the same applies to Mac and Linux!😉

The other way to look at it is to consider the size of the PC market in general. Linux may only have 2.5% of the that overall market, but that's still tens of millions of people.

[LondonSquirrel]

1 hour ago, MattyWS said:

If you don't use Linux and you don't have a need for affinity photo on linux fine, just don't make anti-comments

No no no. That is unacceptable. You only want positive comments. That skews any form of discussion.

[LondonSquirrel]

50 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

Anyways I think this time next year we will see a huge growth for Linux

I've been hearing this more more than 20 years. The magical 'year of the Linux desktop'. It is no nearer today than it was in 1999.

[MattyWS]

3 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

No no no. That is unacceptable. You only want positive comments. That skews any form of discussion.

No, I just don't like seeing people in this forum going into other peoples requests threads and basically saying they don't want said request to come to fruition because it doesn't affect them directly. Like I said, I don't go round complaining that Serif are so focused on the Mac version of the software when I don't use a mac, why would someone else complain about a linux version just because they don't use linux? It makes no sense to come into this topic with negativity toward the request. I'd go as far as to say it's pretty spiteful and selfish. "I don't edit raw images, why are serif wasting their time on improving that feature when I don't even need it!" 

You could go as far as to say there's only one major desktop OS, windows. because thats where pretty much every is, right? Who cares about having a mac version, right? Heck why are Serif wasting their time on affinity at all? everyone should just use photoshop, because thats what the majority of people use. Who needs options, right?

[PaulEC]

2 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

because it doesn't affect them directly.

It does affect them if Serif's limited resources are diverted to producing three apps for another OS, rather than improving the existing three apps, already available on three platforms!

It's also expecting a huge investment from Serif, on the basis of "maybe the Linux market share will suddenly (after years!) grow exponentially, then maybe a large number of those users will have a requirement for the Affinity apps. and decide to buy them." 

[msdobrescu]

8 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

It does affect them if Serif's limited resources are diverted to producing three apps for another OS, rather than improving the existing three apps, already available on three platforms!

It's also expecting a huge investment from Serif, on the basis of "maybe the Linux market share will suddenly (after years!) grow exponentially, then maybe a large number of those users will have a requirement for the Affinity apps. and decide to buy them." 

Let's not act upon a concern of what if. Unless you discuss this on behalf of Serif, of course! Let them speak for themselves, I think they do!

On the other hand, as software developer myself, I am sure everything is possible for a fair amount of resources.

[MattyWS]

9 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

It does affect them if Serif's limited resources are diverted to producing three apps for another OS, rather than improving the existing three apps, already available on three platforms!

It's also expecting a huge investment from Serif, on the basis of "maybe the Linux market share will suddenly (after years!) grow exponentially, then maybe a large number of those users will have a requirement for the Affinity apps. and decide to buy them." 

I mentioned before that I think Serif and Linux have a lot in common if you compare photoshop vs affinity photo to windows vs linux, so I guess I'd argue here, why did serif even set out to start Affinity knowing the market share they have would be next to nothing compared to photoshop? Serif are very much banking on their target audience seeking out an alternative to photoshop, which is what everyone uses, much like people are seeking out a good alternative to windows, which is what everyone uses. It's a very similar comparison IMO. People Want change from windows for much the same reasons as people want change from photoshop and Serif have been here to help us escape.

[PaulEC]

My only real concern is that there are already many, longstanding, bugs that have not been fixed and numerous improvement requests that have not been implemented. I really don't want Serif to spread themselves even thinner on developing their apps on another platform!