Affinity products for Linux

[User_783649]

@Bryan Rieger 

Agree, I've seen that short demo on MAX. That's an interesting pivotal moment for them. Collaboration is really a new big thing. So we can expect Creative Cloud to become completely cloud-only service at some point. Piracy will be completely eliminated as well as term "software download". And then they will basically own every bit of you. Apps, your files, your activity and etc. Stop paying once - you lose it all. You own nothing. That's the future they want for us.

[User_783649]

@MattyWS 

It's very inspiring to see such enthusiasm! I personally have nothing against Linux and would gladly support Serif on this platform even if prices will be higher.

More to say, I have a couple of Linux machines at home and these systems are simply wonderful and stable. Distributions are improving and becoming better and better.

Just maybe my views are a bit more pragmatic when it comes for estimating business expenses and analyzing the risks. We should understand, that:

53 minutes ago, Ali said:

Serif is a remarkably small company. What they do with the small staff they have is nothing short of amazing. I know: I've been around Serif for a LONG time. I doubt there would be the capacity to do it, even if they had half a mind to want to do so.

But anyway, bringing Affinity suite to Linux would be very great.

[Snapseed]

6 hours ago, MattyWS said:

It's much like Photopea I suppose, though I really *really* don't want to have to use photoshop in web browser just because adobe and affinity are being equally stubborn about supporting only 2/3 of the major OS's. It's sad that affinity doesn't even work through wine... 

I do have a question for the affinity staff though, what would it take for you guys to be convinced that Linux is a good platform for affinity suite?

The one thing that would get their attention is a huge rise in desktop Linux market share so that, for example, the market share figures for Linux broadly equal those of macOS.

[Snapseed]

3 hours ago, MattyWS said:

you said it yourself, the only thing holding linux back is the need for software... sooo Developers need to make the first step. They always have. There were no windows users before developers made software for windows. There were no affinity suite customers until serif made the affinity suite. It's a backwards argument to make that devs shouldn't take the first step.

Some developers already have so you have the native Linux Pixeluvo ( = Photoshop Elements) and PhotoLine ( = full Photoshop equivalent) where the developers there make sure that this software works well with Wine. 

[Snapseed]

1 hour ago, MattyWS said:

Yes, 4 times over I'd be willing to pay upwards £300 for the affinity suite on Linux, this is a normal amount for software these days. I've bought other softwares like gaea, world machine, embergen etc all for around about £200-300 and I'd hella do the same for Affinity if it meant coming to linux

Tbh, you would probably have to freely offer them £500,000 to employ staff to do the development work on a Linux version and that sum, or an even larger one, might just get them out of bed.

[Renzatic]

2 hours ago, Hens said:

But than the linux os needs to be controlled to avoid the not so nice developers whom like to get their grips on this big linux market.

Hence telemetry and bloated software to avoid privacy and system failures.

Isn't that what the linux os is all against.

Linux is controlled, both by the Linux Foundation, and the various distro maintainers.

[Ali]

3 hours ago, Alex M said:

But anyway, bringing Affinity suite to Linux would be very great.

And in another thread currently running, others are arguing just as passionately and insistently about an Android version.

[Phosphorus]

3 hours ago, Hens said:

But than the linux os needs to be controlled to avoid the not so nice developers whom like to get their grips on this big linux market.

Hence telemetry and bloated software to avoid privacy and system failures.

Isn't that what the linux os is all against.

I'm not sure about this, I mean, Valve use Telemetry to get analytics. 

What is the problem with this? I mean, the whole community uses Steam, it is not a problem, if you are not interested in the software because the software need telemetry and you are pro security and confidentiality or something like that just don't use the software.

In my case, I would use Affinity even if the product uses telemetry.

Does the product need to be native? I don't think so, Wine did a great job with some help.

For example Valve, they are not porting all games to Linux, just improve to Wine in Proton.

 

[Squirrel Logic]

4 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

So, if you're a Linux user upset that Adobe still hasn't released a Linux version of Photoshop or Illustrator - rejoice, it's coming (but maybe not the way you had imagined).

That is actually one of the futures I imagined, since it's the reason why we use Figma for most of our work. Web and software development is very cross-disciplinary, so we need something that developers can also use, and not have arbitrary boundaries get in the way. If it's performant enough we don't care that it's in a browser. We do care if we have to have a second computer or dual-boot just to open a file. It's the worst kind of task switching we have to do when we use Affinity products. We don't have that problem with Figma, so we don't use Affinity as part of that pipeline.

The problem companies are experiencing is that there's no perfect set of software with OS compatibility for technology-oriented businesses. We can't use Apple for everything because it's under-powered for 3D rendering and content creation. We can't use Windows for everything because of how poorly it works with backend development. Linux works great for 3D, content, and development. So why not have everyone just specialize then? We don't want to create silos, and our success depends on multidisciplinary teams; that's just how things are now nowadays. We consolidate our tools as much as we can to have everyone on the same page. It's easier to deploy, onboard, and support. The whole team uses one IDE, one Git client, one VM, one project management system, one modeling and animation app, one video editor, and it's great. But when it comes to the vector and print design it's a mess. The apps that have stuck around that everyone uses are Figma and DaVinci because they work everywhere we need them to.

At this point I see one of two things happening that will solve the problems that companies are facing with regards to software and OS support for teams that need to do everything smoothly. Microsoft will improve their OS and WSL so that backend development is just as good as it is in Linux, or someone is going to create a cross-platform design suite (web-based or otherwise) to make it universal. At this point, I think it's more likely that Microsoft will fix the problems it has with software development. They've been putting a lot of effort into that and it's almost there. That means Windows can become a universal operating system. If that doesn't happen first (and it might not happen due to limitations inherent in Windows), I imagine that Adobe will create cross-platform apps, since they probably have a better understanding of what companies are struggling with.

But that's just from the business side of things. I'm also concerned about students and the millions of people who are in that in-between space of being a solopreneur that are not part of a big company. Even if Adobe releases cross platform solutions, I don't see Adobe looking out for them. Maybe Serif might?

[Squirrel Logic]

I will add that I think the big lesson here for people who are doing app development is to plan ahead from the very beginning to not write software that will only work in one operating system. The tools to make fully cross-platform apps have been around for years.

[IanSG]

23 hours ago, MattyWS said:

All successful companies grow over time

No, they don't - too many companies have folded because they equated success with growth.  Serif took a risk by switching from their legacy products to Affinity and it appears to have payed off.  Changing their plans because it might give them a strategic advantage in an untapped but also unproven market strikes me as a bridge too far.

[Renzatic]

19 hours ago, Hens said:

If real development comes and companies want real security, a foundation doesn't cut it and commercial parties step in, it will be the end of the loose approach and it will be just as,... say a windows or apple computer.
 

There's already plenty of commercial applications available for Linux. Off the top of my head, there's Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Maya, Houdini. Plus, there's everything on Steam. It's not an FOSS wasteland with nary a paid proprietary app to be seen. It just has very weak support when it comes to graphics design apps.

There's nothing stopping anyone from making their application available for Linux.

[Renzatic]

17 hours ago, Squirrel Logic said:

We can't use Apple for everything because it's under-powered for 3D rendering and content creation.

Well, it was anyway. Those new M1 chips are ridiculous.

[Snapseed]

On 10/28/2021 at 1:04 AM, gnx said:

Yeah, I came here today just to post it. You've been quicker, though

This sounds very promising and as a web developer I'm excited to see such a big application developed with WebAssembly.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 4:53 PM, Bryan Rieger said:

Just another perspective. There were also no web apps before developers made software for the web…

In-case anyone hasn't seen it, Adobe is bringing Photoshop and Illustrator to the browser, which means so long as you have a Chromium based browser you will be able to run Photoshop and Illustrator on whatever platform you desire (including Linux). Personally I'm not a fan of web apps or subscriptions (or NFT's, their other big announcement), but I can see this move as being a big deal in terms of extending their cross-platform support and reaching wider audiences—especially those that live in Google Docs, Figma, Canva, Notion, etc.

So, if you're a Linux user upset that Adobe still hasn't released a Linux version of Photoshop or Illustrator - rejoice, it's coming (but maybe not the way you had imagined).

 

I think it would be really helpful here if many of us Linux users took part in these beta trials for Photoshop and Illustrator to help to ensure that the online web-based versions of these two softwares worked well with different Linux distributions and to provide bug reports so that issues could be fixed before the final online products are launched.

[Renzatic]

11 minutes ago, Snapseed said:

I think it would be really helpful here if many of us Linux users took part in these beta trials for Photoshop and Illustrator to help to ensure that the online web-based versions of these two softwares worked well with different Linux distributions and to provide bug reports so that issues could be fixed before the final online products are launched.

I was considering it. Problem is, for the time being at least, you have to have a desktop version of PS or Illustrator to create new files.

[Squirrel Logic]

4 hours ago, Renzatic said:

Well, it was anyway. Those new M1 chips are ridiculous.

M1 chips perform very well for some tasks, but 3D rendering has not been one of them at the moment. A lot of rendering engines are not written for M1. Apple's Metal has also been a problem for us. The chips in the current line of Macs are geared for efficiency rather than raw power. I expect future M1 chips to catch up in that department. Even when they do hit the market, they won't be as cost effective. For every dollar we put into an iMac we can get so much more rendering power out of a PC and graphics cards that are dedicated to that type of processing.

And with Intel's Alder Lake around the corner, the benefits of the M1 won't be exclusive to Apple.

[Renzatic]

13 minutes ago, Squirrel Logic said:

For every dollar we put into an iMac we can get so much more rendering power out of a PC and graphics cards that are dedicated to that type of processing.

It's the rumored up and coming Mac Pro that I'd keep my eye out on. As is, the M1 Max is performing roughly in the same ballpark as a mobile Ryzen 5900 and 3070M. While not as mind-meltingly amazing as some people claim, it's still sporting some solid performance, and the fact that it's doing it at, what, a 3rd of the TDP as the aforementioned is incredibly impressive.

An M1 designed to run in situations where cooling and power efficiency aren't as much of a concern could be a beast of a machine.

[PoVRAZOR]

Ugh. I quite literally only use Windows because of the Affinity suite and Capture One. I made the mistake of upgrading to Windows 11, and now I can't use the suite. 😢

I would greatly welcome Linux versions. Would gladly pay for them again.

Edited October 30, 2021 by PoVRAZOR

[Ali]

5 minutes ago, PoVRAZOR said:

I made the mistake of upgrading to Windows 11, and now I can't use the suite. 

Why? No problem on Windows 11 here.

[PoVRAZOR]

 

4 minutes ago, Ali said:

Why? No problem on Windows 11 here.

This isn't tech support, but the apps only show checkerboards instead of images, and palettes/swatches have been replaced with dots.

Edited October 30, 2021 by PoVRAZOR

[Ali]

2 minutes ago, PoVRAZOR said:

 

This isn't tech support, but the apps only show checkerboards instead of images, and palettes/swatches have been replaced with dots.

No it isn't, but there was an update yesterday - look for information in that as it might help.

[PoVRAZOR]

 

8 minutes ago, Ali said:

No it isn't, but there was an update yesterday - look for information in that as it might help.

I'm running the latest versions. Latest Affinity, latest Windows 11, latest graphics drivers (Intel and AMD).

Edited October 30, 2021 by PoVRAZOR

[thedrumdoctor]

2 hours ago, PoVRAZOR said:

 I made the mistake of upgrading to Windows 11, and now I can't use the suite. 😢

Windows 10 has become the new Windows 7….

[MattyWS]

As people have pointed out there are so many commercial applications that are on linux and are used. I use the Substance suite, Blender and Unity, which are my softwares of choice, but forced to use gimp/krita which aren't my choice. It's a mixed bag of FOSS and commercial. I think a lot of people consider Linux as a whole some kind of anti-consumer, anti-commercial, anti-paid software OS for hobbyist programmers with tinfoil hats but it's absolutely not like that. Linux is just one of three options that happens to be FOSS where the other two aren't (being FOSS is a good thing, not bad). Boggles my mind that it's even an argument for some people. 

'Hey Serif, stop working on the iOS version of Affinity because most people don't even use it and it's wasting resources that could be put toward the OS I use!' 

[Snapseed]

23 hours ago, MattyWS said:

As people have pointed out there are so many commercial applications that are on linux and are used. I use the Substance suite, Blender and Unity, which are my softwares of choice, but forced to use gimp/krita which aren't my choice. It's a mixed bag of FOSS and commercial. I think a lot of people consider Linux as a whole some kind of anti-consumer, anti-commercial, anti-paid software OS for hobbyist programmers with tinfoil hats but it's absolutely not like that. Linux is just one of three options that happens to be FOSS where the other two aren't (being FOSS is a good thing, not bad). Boggles my mind that it's even an argument for some people. 

'Hey Serif, stop working on the iOS version of Affinity because most people don't even use it and it's wasting resources that could be put toward the OS I use!' 

I fully agree with you and I am also not one of those 'must only be free to use and must only be able to read the source code' minority zealots (they do speak loudly though). I am fully in favour of paid applications being available on the Linux platform and I'm happy to pay for good software like Pixeluvo and SoftMaker Office, for example. While I cannot buy free software, I do contribute to projects like Gimp so that improvements can be made and in both cases the motivation is the same because developers should be rewarded for the work that they put in to provide us with useful software.

Things are getting better all the while and we now have the Figma and Lunacy graphic editors and I have used Canva for a number of projects. Indeed, it is possible that we might get Adobe's Photoshop and Illustrator as online apps some time in the future and that would be very welcome. In your case right now, why not try out PhotoLine with Wine?

I do think though that Serif Affinity are doing exactly the right thing by making an iOS app because iPads are used for a lot of professional design work and that's bringing in quite a lot of money for Serif Affinity that in turn feeds into further improvements.