Affinity products for Linux

[MattyWS]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

There are so few commercial applications for Linux that there is even a wiki page listing them. 

Are you talking about this?; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proprietary_software_for_Linux

Because if so it's not even a full list, I even listed one that's not in there in my last post

[MattyWS]

9 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

A whole 'one'? Well that will skew the figures.

yea, it does. if I can list one by chance before you even mentioned it, in a list of 2 on an unrelated note, then chances are there's a f*ck ton more not listed in a clearly not very comprehensive list. I could make a list of 100 or so random proprietary software for windows too, do you think it can be used as an argument to say that windows only has 100 proprietary softwares? Or do you think maybe I should have done my research and it'd be a stupid attempt at confirming a bias I may have?

[Bez Bezson]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

There are so few commercial applications for Linux that there is even a wiki page listing them. 

I've got a bunch of games that are't on that list, so it's definitely not even close to comprehensive.

[Bez Bezson]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

There are not nearly as many commercial apps for Linux as there are for Windows. It's about at tiny part of 1% in comparison. 

Certainly a lot less, not sure it's a "tiny part of 1%", but yeah it's probably around 1%-ish.

Still, there's several hundred commercial programs that are profitable on the OS.

No reason why the Affinity suite couldn't be among those.

 

Developing just for Linux? Yeah, that's dumb.

Porting to Linux and doing what's needed to gt it working? It works for a lot of the companies that have  tried it.

[Pandorino]

Seems like Serif is missing this horse while Adobe is not. Adobe launched last week the browser version of Photoshop and Illustrator. Still not supporting all the features but many would be able to use it on Linux and it's just a matter of time for Adobe to add many more features and move other applications on browser. Like The Linux Experiment says in this video, Photoshop is often cited in the main reasons for not switching to Linux (for whom have that interest, many people stick to Win or Mac anyway), meaning that Linux will probably see more users thanks to Adobe.

[Old Bruce]

17 hours ago, Pandorino said:

Seems like Serif is missing this horse while Adobe is not. Adobe launched last week the browser version of Photoshop and Illustrator. Still not supporting all the features but many would be able to use it on Linux ...

From the page in the first link. Emphasis is mine.

" And Creative Cloud subscribers can make light edits to Photoshop or Illustrator files right in their browser."

Doesn't sound like you would be able to use Photoshop on Linux, you are going to need a Windows or Mac machine to do actual work on and have the CC account and then you can make light edits (who knows how light) on Linux.

[Snapseed]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:24 PM, PSDfield said:

Especially in time like these and the new Windows 11, which so far does not attact many productivity oder gaming user, there is a rise in interest in lunux distros like Pop_OS and other well documented distros like Ubuntu.

Since Snap for Ubuntu exists, there are even more good reasons for Affinity to shine on Linux. Productivity, performance, security and even in some cases usability are all reasons to switch to Linux (or dual-boot).

The Windows App Store will support Android Apps soon, many once plattform exclusive Apps and services become more available via browsers and cross-plattform. Plattform independence should always be a huge bonus for software developers. So please Serif do not ignore this.

Your best bet there might be to ask the developers of PhotoLine on their forums if they would consider bundling up PhotoLine with Wine as an Ubuntu Snap in the Snap Store.

[Anon172]

On 11/2/2021 at 8:12 PM, LondonSquirrel said:

There are not nearly as many commercial apps for Linux as there are for Windows. It's about at tiny part of 1% in comparison. 

I'm sorry, but what the hell guys?! You are really arguing about how many commercial apps on Linux?! C'mon this is a thread about Affinity supporting Linux!!!

Edited November 5, 2021 by Anon172
wrongly formatted

[Anon172]

Also, if Serif ever develops a Linux version, please do it with Flatpak. Snap is pain with custom cursors, themes, and is very slow. However, at flatpak, for custom themes, there is stylepak, and for custom cursors, you just have to override cursors in the terminal.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Anon172
was unclear

[PaulEC]

1 minute ago, LondonSquirrel said:

And here is another example of why there will never be a 'year of the Linux desktop': two competing methods of packaging up apps supposedly to make things easier. In this thread we have some people say 'use Snap', and somebody else 'use Flatpak', one saying Snap is good and the other saying Snap is bad. You cannot even agree on a packaging system.

Why not use both! ('only means a bit more work for the developers, I'm sure they've got nothing better to do!) 😁

[Renzatic]

2 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

And here is another example of why there will never be a 'year of the Linux desktop': two competing methods of packaging up apps supposedly to make things easier. In this thread we have some people say 'use Snap', and somebody else 'use Flatpak', one saying Snap is good and the other saying Snap is bad. You cannot even agree on a packaging system.

That's pretty much Canonical (the people who maintain Ubuntu) vs. Everyone Else. In the end, it doesn't make that much of a difference, since almost all apps available as flatpaks have snaps and vice versa, and it's easy to use them both.

[Anon172]

2 minutes ago, Renzatic said:

That's pretty much Canonical (the people who maintain Ubuntu) vs. Everyone Else. In the end, it doesn't make that much of a difference, since almost all apps available as flatpaks have snaps and vice versa, and it's easy to use them both.

But as I said, it has big disadvantages.

[Renzatic]

2 minutes ago, Anon172 said:

But as I said, it has big disadvantages.

From what I gather, snaps are slowly going the way of the dodo anyway, so it's really all academic by this point.

There's only one distro out there that supports snaps out of the box, and that's Ubuntu. The rest, even those forked from Ubuntu, are using flatpaks.

[msdobrescu]

5 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Why not just have one?

There you are: arguing about a package system. And so it has ever been with Linux about everything.

RPMs are best. No DEBs are better. Pacman is better still. I say that Nix is better, and that is the reason why I nail my colours to the mast and use NixOS. Me and the other three people using this fantastic distribution snootily look down our noses at RPMs. You Nix people don't know anything, if you want the best options use Portage for all your packaging needs, emerge is a user-friendly command.

Next week there will be another packaging system to rule them all. People (Linux developers) waste so much time on this sort of thing. The supposed benefits of one package system over another are marginal. 

Blah blah blah.

True, because that is Linux, as effect of being free and open, a testing bench and a place for debate. Also wrong due to so many misconceptions I see here.

I won't take one by one now, again and again. But packing is not an issue at all. For example, there is a closed source third party LEGO modelling tool, LDCad that uses accelerated graphics and comes as a sh installer. It simply worked for me everywhere, so it's possible. It's also one man's effort, although not simple at all.

No need for snaps, flatpaks, rpms, whatever option like those.

So it's possible.

On the other hand, remember Oracle. You peek one of their supported OSes, like RedHat, Mandriva, CentOS and so on, at the time was launched, and do the specific steps to setup and you are good to go.

I bet if Affinity releases the apps under one or few specific distros, we'll jump to one of those and do our jobs happily.

[msdobrescu]

5 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

That is merely your opinion. Other Linux people have different opinions.

That's my experience.

6 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Definitely, Affinity should release their apps for the top 500 distributions. That should take care of 90% of Linux users.

LOL!

[Renzatic]

28 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Definitely, Affinity should release their apps for the top 500 distributions. That should take care of 90% of Linux users.

Or they could do what Quixel does, and release a platform agnostic .appimage. Or they could do what Adobe does, and just support Redhat.

At the end of the day, Linux is Linux. If it works in one, it'll work in them all. What distro to choose isn't really an issue.

[Renzatic]

24 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

That is not correct. I have had a 'professional' app that would only work on RedHat. No amount of tinkering could convince this app to run on anything other than RedHat. 

That's one example. Now, is that the exception, or the rule?

[MattyWS]

it's usually not a problem at all, *most* of the time it'll work on all distros just fine. most changes between distros are just the desktop environment, possibly included or not included drivers which can be added later, and a custom selection of included applications which again can be added or removed from all and how far behind in updates the distro is compared to each other.

For example where substance designer only has an rpm format you can still just convert it to be used on debian based distros anyway.

I think people should stop trying to make problems out of non-issues lol. 

[Renzatic]

16 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

I have 25 years experience with Linux. I've seen the inconsistencies. I've seen commercial apps which will not run on anything other than what the required distribution(s) are.

I've been using it for around 5 years now, recently exclusively, and I haven't had any problems with it.

[IanSG]

2 hours ago, Renzatic said:

I've been using it for around 5 years now, recently exclusively, and I haven't had any problems with it.

Nothing's gone wrong or nothing you couldn't fix?  PCs have been ubiquitous for decades now, but the number of computer literate users seems to have declined (as a percentage, at least).

[Renzatic]

2 hours ago, IanSG said:

Nothing's gone wrong or nothing you couldn't fix?  PCs have been ubiquitous for decades now, but the number of computer literate users seems to have declined (as a percentage, at least).

Nothing I couldn't fix. Computers are computers. They're going to spaz out on you at some point.

And Linux being Linux, it can sometimes kick you square in the nuts.

[MattyWS]

On 11/12/2021 at 9:37 PM, LondonSquirrel said:

That is the definition of Linux distributions. ABC distribution uses xyz feature, which is a problem for some people. So they do a new distribution using qwe feature. Then somebody comes along and does something different. And then there are hundreds of distributions.

I have 25 years experience with Linux. I've seen the inconsistencies. I've seen commercial apps which will not run on anything other than what the required distribution(s) are. It's not just converting from rpm to deb (or something else). 

well then I guess it's a super amazing feat that something like Gimp, made for free and non-profit works on every distro just fine. I'm sure Serif would have zero issues with this. It's a non issue. Likewise, there's all kinds of proprietary software that works just fine on all distros. Never had a problem with it.

If anything all you're trying to do with your '25 years of experience with linux' is discourage devs from making software for it and discouraging people from using linux in general which is not normal for a linux user. Most people who have experience with linux will try to encourage more people to use it. your attitude is pretty sus so far tbh. Why don't you want Linux to be used?

 

[Pufty]

11 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

I am not bothered if there is a Linux version or not. The technical problems can be overcome.

The problem in a nutshell is this: Linux users completely oversell the desktop market share that Linux has. It's about 1% overall. It's not worth devoting time to making commercial Linux apps. It distracts from the bigger markets of Windows and macOS. But Linux people like to shout. The market share of Linux today in 2021 is not much different to its market share 20 years ago. The touted 'year of the Linux desktop' has been around for two decades. 

Linux has its place. But making commercial desktop apps for Linux has been in nearly all cases a distraction and a failure for those involved.

Too bad that more keep switching then, I guess. Have you tried Linux, because I'm pleasantly surprised that it's easy. IDK anything about 2 decades of linux desktop, but recently tried it and it's a pretty honest sell.

[MattyWS]

16 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

I am not bothered if there is a Linux version or not. The technical problems can be overcome.

The problem in a nutshell is this: Linux users completely oversell the desktop market share that Linux has. It's about 1% overall. It's not worth devoting time to making commercial Linux apps. It distracts from the bigger markets of Windows and macOS. But Linux people like to shout. The market share of Linux today in 2021 is not much different to its market share 20 years ago. The touted 'year of the Linux desktop' has been around for two decades. 

Linux has its place. But making commercial desktop apps for Linux has been in nearly all cases a distraction and a failure for those involved.

not developing for linux because of a small market share is shortsighted IMO and I've said exactly why that is a few times here A market only exists after developers make a market usable... That's serif in this case. I don't know about the last 25 years of linux but I do know about the last 5 or so years and Linux is just as capable as windows and mac, just as simple to use (I find macOS more difficult to use than something like POP, Mint or ZorinOS).  Anyway if you really want to argue numbers then Serif should only develop for windows. MacOS holds a tiny share as well. Thats bad because no one wants to see a monopoly or duopoly. People are only using windows and mac because of software support. I don't want to be forced to use either of those. No one wants to be forced to use an OS.

Where are you getting stats that developing for linux results in failure? Lots of creative software exists on Linux alongside Windows and Mac without a problem. Substance, Unity, Unreal, Houdini, Blender all work great and is a handful of the software that are cross platform, I fail to see why Serif would fail in this area alongside them. 

Anyway, I see your points, but I disagree with you on a base level. Your reasoning is flawed IMO.
 

[nBlaze]

11 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

not developing for linux because of a small market share is shortsighted IMO and I've said exactly why that is a few times here A market only exists after developers make a market usable...
 

You're very emotional about it, but yeah, that does ring true. If the app support was there, I'd probably use Windows Mobile much longer than I did. I still prefer it over Android or iOS, but low market share and lack of developer support killed it.

But it's kinda chicken or egg situation - even before it lost majority of app support its market share was quite low.

As for the Mac vs Windows... it's a different ballpark.
Windows is the default desktop system with a majority of market share, BUT that includes not only creatives, but also everyone from accountants and gamers to soccer moms just harvesting virtual tomatoes on Facebook.
And you can't throw a MacBook without hitting a creative of some sort. Total market share is much lower than Windows, sure, but what share there is is basically your target audience.

As for Linux sure, this thread is a proof there are creatives who want to use it. But we're still like 1% of 1%.