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Ah, thanks Patrick. Appreciated.


All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts...

- Jaques's speech from William Shakespeare's "As You Like It" (Act II; Scene VII)

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I sometimes think people are too quick to say that Apple's hardware is too expensive. Yeah, maybe the initial cost is higher up front but I have always found that you get benefits at the end in terms of resale value.

 

For example, I bought the Apple TV 2nd gen for $99 and then, 5 years later was able to sell it for $60, which I used to help subsidize the cost of a new Apple TV 4th generation.

 

I bought an Apple iPad Air and then after 2 and a half years sold it for $180 and used that to subsidize the cost of a new iPad Pro 9.7 inch. Granted timing is everything, but I have got it down to a science. I am always able to sell my old Apple stuff, get a real good price and use that to make the new cost of the next Apple product much, much less.

 

In terms of the numbers for Android and their dominance, well, that can be really tricky. I mean, are Amazon's products considered Android? They do run their own modified offshoot of Android don't they? I have friends that use a number of different Android phones and tablets and it is really all over the map in terms of functionality and features. Especially when manufacturers want to add their own touch to stock Android, like Samsung's TouchWiz, etc. They can't leave well enough alone they have to muddy the waters so to speak. It has to be really hard for a company like Serif to develop Photo or Designer for the iPad but then to turn around and have to deal with dozens of Android makes, models, OS versions? That is something that I would never take on personally, what a headache.

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Yep, if you want to claim the treasure then you have to be willing to take on the headaches...

 

That's why there are millionaires and then there are billionaires. It comes to down to what your willing to go after; a piece of the pie or the whole pie.

 

Believe it, there are plenty of apps in the Android App Store.

 

Key App Store Statistics:

  • Total number of apps on the App Store – 1,5 million (as of the summer of 2015)
  • Total number of apps on Google Play  – 1,8 million (as of the winter of 2015)
  • Total number of apps on Amazon AppStore – 400k (as of spring 2015)

 

  • This statistic contains data on the number of apps available for download in leading app stores as of March 2017. As of that month, Android users were able to choose between 2.8 million apps. Apple's App Store remained the second-largest app store with 2.2 million available apps.

     

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I sometimes think people are too quick to say that Apple's hardware is too expensive. Yeah, maybe the initial cost is higher up front but I have always found that you get benefits at the end in terms of resale value. ... 

 

In terms of the numbers for Android and their dominance, well, that can be really tricky. I mean, are Amazon's products considered Android? They do run their own modified offshoot of Android don't they? I have friends that use a number of different Android phones and tablets and it is really all over the map in terms of functionality and features. Especially when manufacturers want to add their own touch to stock Android, like Samsung's TouchWiz, etc. They can't leave well enough alone they have to muddy the waters so to speak. It has to be really hard for a company like Serif to develop Photo or Designer for the iPad but then to turn around and have to deal with dozens of Android makes, models, OS versions? That is something that I would never take on personally, what a headache.

 

Hi Scungio, good to meet you, my fabulously rich co-participant. :)

 

But if one cannot afford the up-front costs to start with, what then?

 

Today I bought an upgrade to my computer stable - £450. That was very expensive to me. Problem is, it is second-hand - as all my PCs, bar two, have been (my first one ever - a 286 model bought in medieval times and one I built myself - try building an Apple yourself!). Now, being second-hand, it will finish its days, as all my computers do, in a dark corner of my study - far too old for anyone to want; forlorn, with no operating system (as I always remove hard discs - always physically destroy those - Google do and I trust them on this). So no second-hand retail value for me. Heck, this latest PC just cost me (and you will not believe this but true it be) £100* more than the most recent car I bought - which has just died but did 2.5 years' excellent service. No resale value in that, either.

 

(* A Mercedes A-Class sold "as spares or repair" to me for £350 but was running; I drove it away and it has managed three MoTs since then - UK tests of something-like roadworthyness). I digress.

 

I agree that many Apple users regard Android's diversity as problematic - and there are some truths in that. But it is also its strength. I want to buy other brands of cars than just Mercedes - I also have a Jaguar and have had thirteen Volvos. Variety is the spice of driving - or hard-driving. :)

 

Actually, I blame Serif for my financial disaster (spending £450 is a financial disaster). My existing PCs were insufficiently powered to run Affinity well and certainly struggled with Affinity and ACDSee simultaneously open. And Topaz simply refused to run.

 

New PC (well used PC) hopefully arrives next week and should boot donkeys, as I believe the expression is in America. Then we'll be motoring! Damn - not so, my cheap car having packed-up. C'est la thingy.

 

Toodle pip.


All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts...

- Jaques's speech from William Shakespeare's "As You Like It" (Act II; Scene VII)

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That's why there are millionaires and then there are billionaires. It comes to down to what your willing to go after; a piece of the pie or the whole pie.

 

 

Hi InfoCentral,

 

And there are people with a few hundred quid; people with a tenner and people who are paupers. And then people with large debts - probably owed to or spent with rich billionaires.

 

Not everyone has money to freely spend. That goes for small firms, too. 

 

Plus, the best is not always the most expensive and vice-versa.

 

And then there is opportunity cost (an economics' concept - simply means that whatever we spend on something means the lost opportunity to spend it another way - more precisely the next-best alternative way from one's POV). My opportunity cost is I want a specific camera but spending on cars and computers sends that further into the future. But I'm lucky; I have a camera which works and, by the time I can afford my target camera (Canon Eos 80D) Canon may well have marketed the 90D; people will be trading-up and selling their old 80Ds at reduced rates. Well, I hope so anyway.

 

Toodle pip.


All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts...

- Jaques's speech from William Shakespeare's "As You Like It" (Act II; Scene VII)

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Dude your on he wrong side of the ledger. I am talking about INCOME and your talking about EXPENSES.

 

Hi InfoCentral,

 

A couple of points which may help:

 

(i) I am not a dude, to the best of my knowledge.

 

(ii) It is rare income is generated without expenditure. "One has to speculate to accumulate," is the old saying. Thus, one has to buy cameras, lenses, computing power and so on before one can make a product for sale. Some brilliant and lucky people manage to make a lot of money from nothing but most who try fail.

 

Toodle pip.


All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts...

- Jaques's speech from William Shakespeare's "As You Like It" (Act II; Scene VII)

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Hi,

As a thery lot of people i am interested in affinity photo for Android. There is Samsung tab S3 with pen which is the equivalent of ipad Pro with more advantage. 

I'm a graphic photo designer i use it for my job. 

Please Serif,  give us an Android version of your product, theme are more Android user which you can benefit from selling it.

Thanks. 

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You are making a really big mistake if you’re not developping an application for Android and Chrome OS devices. And there are really good arguments for that :

- You can not ignore that Chrome OS and Android are merging, the Google Playstore is now on the Chromebooks and Chromeboxes, as well as more and more Android Apps.

- Furthermore, Chrome OS is going to be on the Google tablets, instead of Android, Asus as shown a tablet with Chrome OS recently. The future is there, the sales of iPads ans iPads Pro are going to decrease by far. Chrome OS, and, in the future, Fuschsia OS are the future.

- There are more and more convertible Chromebooks, and hybrid Chromebooks with a detachable screen (like the Nautilus that Samsung is developping, and like the Microsot Surface) are on the way, the future is with them, the success is going to be huge. Chrome and Android are now supporting pencils, like the Microsoft Surface ans iPad Pros. And, for those who ignore this, yes Android devices do not have the Metal API, but there is Vulkan, which is as powerful as Metal.. And, for those who want a powerful Chromebook, ther are the Google Pixel and a few profesionnal ones.

- Furthermore, Google is developping the Fuchsia (namecode) OS, which is merging Android and Chrome OS for PCS and other devices. Fuchsia is going to support the Android apps, for sure, the number of Android Apps is way too big not to be compatible with Fuchsia devices for Google, it would be a big mistake (or the Android apps are going to be easily convertible in Fuchsda OS, for sure, the Fuchsia Store should be as big as the Google Playstore very fast for its success).

 

Hence, Serif can not ignore such a big potential of customers. Ignore us, Android and Chrome devices buyers, would be suicidal for your company. Not having your Serif apps on the Google Playstore for Android, Chrome (and future Fuchsia) devices is a really really big mistake. You have no other choice.

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Yes, of course, you have the choice, at Serif, to rely on the wrong platform (IOS ansd Mac OS) which is declining, or to rely on the right platform (Android and Chrome OS), whose community is getting bigger and bigger everyday, and will be the biggest within the next few years with the growth of Android and Chrome OS devices :) If you do not understand, I can do nothing for you better than warning you. You just have to bet on the best platform. But don’t do it too late, your competitors may chose the right one quicker tha you, and the you will regret your wrong decision. Chrome devices are getting bigger and bigger everyday, there are even powerful Chromebooks with Intel I5 and I7 chips, Chrome OS and Android are merging and the result is going to become a really powerful OS, before the rise of Fuchsia (on the way). You cannot make the really wrong decision not to be on the Google devices, which rules the market, with Android devices, Chromebooks, Chromeboxes (even professionnal ones) and now Chromebook Tablets (first One, The Acer Chromebook Tablet 10, and big companies such as Samsung, Asus, Google, LG are going to follow the path. Sales of iPads are devreasing, you are completely wrong. Thereis no Metal for Android, but there is Vulkan, which is its equal API. Chrome OS and Android devices are the future, no doubt about it. You do not have the choice. You were right 2 years ago, but you no longer are.

It’s for your business, not mine, as long as I have the Windows 10 OS (I don’t want to buy Apple devices, I don’t have any Aple devices, and I willl never have.; for me, Apple is evil, I hate Apple, the irritating Apple leaders and Apple fanboys stinking with their prétension - I have met some pathetic ones on internet - vade retro satanas. I am making my own business, I will buy computers and tablets, but only Windows and Chrome OS ones) :)

Furthermore, the good thing for you to develop an Android app is that you will get in touch with lots of scholars, children, who will thus get used to work with your softwares (most of schools use Chromebook devices), and will buy them for their devices at home.

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2 hours ago, letsgroove37 said:

Yes, of course, you have the choice, at Serif, to rely on the wrong platform (IOS ansd Mac OS) which is declining, or to rely on the right platform (Android and Chrome OS), whose community is getting bigger and bigger everyday, and will be the biggest within the next few years with the growth of Android and Chrome OS devices :)

It must be nice to have a crystal ball to see into the future with such clarity. ;)


Affinity Photo 1.8.2, Affinity Designer 1.8.2, Affinity Publisher 1.8.2; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.2.174 & Affinity Designer 1.8.2.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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On 16/06/2017 at 11:58 PM, Woad V. said:

try building an Apple yourself!

I did, its called Hackintosh and it's surprisingly easy if you have the right hardware, I ran OS X on a PC for 4 years until the motherboard died but up until then it ran way better than windows ever did. Then I got an actual Apple Mac.


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

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On 8/3/2018 at 0:01 PM, letsgroove37 said:

The future is there, the sales of iPads ans iPads Pro are going to decrease by far.

Thay may be the future, but this is the present:

http://fortune.com/2017/11/03/apple-ipad-earnings-tablet/

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

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52 minutes ago, Mithferion said:

Thay may be the future, but this is the present:

Regarding the present vs. the future & the educational market, there is no evidence that what kind of device young students use in schools has a material impact on what kind of device they will choose to use later in life. Among other things, if that was true then back when Apple dominated the k-12 educational market in the U.S., 10 or so years later one would expect to have seen a huge increase in Mac sales vs. Windows PCs. But that did not happen, nor has any other statistically significant cause & effect relationship ever been shown.


Affinity Photo 1.8.2, Affinity Designer 1.8.2, Affinity Publisher 1.8.2; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.2.174 & Affinity Designer 1.8.2.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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11 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Regarding the present vs. the future & the educational market, there is no evidence that what kind of device young students use in schools has a material impact on what kind of device they will choose to use later in life. Among other things, if that was true then back when Apple dominated the k-12 educational market in the U.S., 10 or so years later one would expect to have seen a huge increase in Mac sales vs. Windows PCs. But that did not happen, nor has any other statistically significant cause & effect relationship ever been shown.

 

A similar thing in the UK. Acorn computers dominated the education market but everyone went and bought Windows PCs. And if you worked in an office and needed to run accounts software or type a letter, would you use a phone?

 

Besides, how many phones or tablets could actually run a complex resource hungry application like Photo?


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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17 minutes ago, toltec said:

Besides, how many phones or tablets could actually run a complex resource hungry application like Photo?

The Affinity Photo, Designer, & the eventual Publisher apps all require relatively large screens, high performance multi-core CPUs running at high clock rates, high speed data busses, & fast GPUs to deliver an acceptably lag-free & efficient user experience. Good luck getting all that on any relatively inexpensive Android device, particularly one that can run on battery power for more than a few hours.


Affinity Photo 1.8.2, Affinity Designer 1.8.2, Affinity Publisher 1.8.2; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.2.174 & Affinity Designer 1.8.2.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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I owned Android for 6 years including a Samsung Tocca and a Samsung Note. The Tocca took awesome images and even survived being chucked off of my van at 50mph and then run over by an 18 wheel Articulated lorry unscathed, I couldn't believe it O.o 

The lack of App space (Not total space) was a royal PIA having to remove apps to put more on was just tedious. Also a lot of the apps were poorly designed or just didn't work properly, there were some good apps but it was very hit and miss. Lag was a big issue and the device got choked up very quickly, constantly having to clear caches, moving "bits" of an app to an external Micro SD was also very messy, if you wanted basic common-sense functionality you had to jailbreak the device. If I had to sum up Android now, it would be "Messy, clumsy and laggy." Maybe things have improved a bit but I much prefer iPhone.


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

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R-C-R and Firstdefence, you seem to have lots of wrong prejudices about Android, Chrome OS and their devices, so I will respond to you two at once and make clear that you will understand for good, so that, in the future, you may cannot tell such big mistakes. It seems that you lack a lot of infomration about Chrome OS and Android, si I am glad to inform you about what you’ve misunderstood.

 

R-C-R, you should know taht there are large screens Chrome OS devices, the Chromebox ones (desktop chromebooks with 22, 24 and even 27 inch screens, so that big screen are not the problem. Furthermore, there are powerful Android devices With Snapdragon 845, Exynos and Kirin 970 Soc, and powerful Chromebook devices with Intel Coire I3, I5 and I7 processors, and with powerful GPUs. Android is not compatible with Metal APIs, but there are Vulkan APIS which do exactluy the Same. The latest powerful SoC for Android are able to run the flagship smartphones as an alternative for PCs (Samsung Galaxy S9 and S9+, Huawei P20 Pro, so that power is not a problem for Android tablets and Chrome devices. So you are completely wrong about Android and Chrome OS devices, you definitively need to learn a lot more about them and what they’ve become. Chrome OS devices are not only low power devices for students, there are also powerful professional ones. Have the seen the latest Chromebook which has juste been revealed, the HP Chromebook X2, like the Microsoft Srface, with a detachable screen, with 7th generation Intel Core, up to 8 Go of Ram, 12,3 inch 4K screen, and with a stylus, depending on the version ? And I don’t speak about security, a big advantage of Chrome OS devices. With new updates and features every 6 weeks, Chrome OS is getting better and better, It won’t be long before he can fully compete with Windows 10, IOS and Mac OS.

 

The lack of App space in no longer a problem for years for Android devices, you would be surprised, I have 64 Gb of space for my apps on my Lenovo Tab 4 10 inch Plus (4G version), it is quite enough. The quality off apps in very good on Android, ther are still low quality apps, but less and less, and they are abandoned now both by users and developers. Things have changed a lot on Anbdroid for the 4 last yers. Android has nothing to be jealous of IOS, and both OS are more and more similar.

 

Not developping Serif Affinity Apps for Android is a very big mistake (even if there are a lot of different specifications for Android devices, so the work is harder, I admit it voluntarily, but it is worth it. And we are very numerous people to regret it.

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Out of curiosity, who is buying these very powerful Chromebooks and what are they using them for ? I can't imagine schools buy powerful and expensive machines just for the classroom.

 

There just does not seem to be any powerful software that justifies buying that sort of machine. So surely the number of sales is tiny ?

 

The other problem to be aware of, it is not just Affinity Photo you need. Plug ins, ICC profiles, Printer drivers, colour calibration equipment, software and so on. That defeated me with Linux a few years back. No proper support and Serif can't do it on their own. Ten years on it has not improved much.

 

If all you can do is fiddle about with pictures on screen and not print them, a powerful program like Photo is overkill and isn't likely to be a success.

 

A nice thought though.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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51 minutes ago, letsgroove37 said:

The lack of App space in no longer a problem for years for Android devices, you would be surprised, I have 64 Gb of space for my apps on my Lenovo Tab 4 10 inch Plus (4G version), it is quite enough.

 

The lack of space clearly isn't a problem, but what about the screen resolution? Lenovo's website tells me that the Tab 4 10 Plus has a 1920 x 1200 display, which is significantly lower resolution than the 2048 x 1536 that you get on an iPad Air 2.

 


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Affinity Photo for iPad 1.8.2.174 • Designer for iPad 1.8.2.4 • iPadOS 13.3.1 (iPad Air 2)

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My Lenovo Tab 4 10 inch Plus was an example, ther are plenty of Android devices that have the same App space or even more...

For Toltec : Adobe has developped Photoshop Express, Photoship Lightroom, Illustrator Draw... for Android, so I think ther is no problem for developping Serif Infinity Apps for Android and therefore Chrome OS

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40 minutes ago, letsgroove37 said:

 

For Toltec : Adobe has developped Photoshop Express, Photoship Lightroom, Illustrator Draw... for Android, so I think ther is no problem for developping Serif Infinity Apps for Android and therefore Chrome OS

 

So, if Photoshop Express is reasonably good (I don't know much about it) and free. What would be the point of Serif spending time and money developing Affinity Photo for Android ?

 

Not exactly good business strategy developing an app you give away for free, and who would pay for Photo Express if Photoshop Express is free ?


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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Because if ou want to make designs really regurlalarly, you've got to work with the real Photoshop / illustrator... softwares, not the light ones, and you know that Serif Infinity softwares are worth the money for, in less than 6 monts they are amortized :)

I am not using my QAndroid tablet that for,i am using my Windows 10 PC which is only 32 bits so I'm sadly only using the old Serif softwares (Page Plus, Photo Plus...) but i'm buidlding my own company (music and medias industry) for which i am planning to buy Pcs and tablets, both Microsoft and Android / Chrome OS ones, no Ipads or iPhones (never) to design all sorts of promotion documents for our events (concerts, festivals, parties...) and activities... all year long...

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