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WOW new your subscription price like "adobe" based on 2.0 . . .


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That's a damn good question? As A longtime affinity designer, photo, publisher user I have supported throughout the life of these three programs since the beginning, and this how we are treated by Serif. "You got money you can buy the program again, that sounds like a paid subscription to me". So every new version 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 we have to re-buy the whole software is that the new subscription plan that you guys are offering. I'm NOT looking for a "Affinity V2 Universal License" subscription plan. But as a long time user upgrade price please? Yes this sounds like a "TAX" just like in adobe, Serif is this this is where you gonna go now. PAY 2 PLAY? 🥵🥶🤢

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When Adobe's subscription covers 6 years of updates for one payment, and when the Affinity programs stop working if you stop paying, then what Serif has done might be like an Adobe subscription. Until then, it's completely different :) 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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57 minutes ago, DrZigZag said:

that sounds like a paid subscription to me

Subscription software means if you stop subscribing, then the application stops working. The Affinity license are perpetual. They keep working, effectively forever, after you pay for the license. Paying to get an upgrade is not a subscription.

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27 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

When Adobe's subscription covers 6 years of updates for one payment, and when the Affinity programs stop working if you stop paying, then what Serif has done might be like an Adobe subscription. Until then, it's completely different :) 

Publisher was only released three years ago...

19 minutes ago, GDCo said:

I am ok with this bussiness model... BUT I am happy with V1 and will not buy V2 for now. I am just worried that known issues and potencial new bugs with windows and drivers updates are not coming...

This. If there are no bug fixes for V1 owners - bearing in mind some of us have paid hundreds already for this stuff - and the products no longer work, then this is effectively a subscription by any other name.

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4 minutes ago, Devil_Inside said:

until it's a new version every year (aka subscription model).

In my opinion, it's not truly a subscription model unless the software stops working if you stop paying. 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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15 minutes ago, Devil_Inside said:

My main concern is that with this monetization model, they'll stop releasing new features / making large changes in V2 lifecycle. They'll be holding them off for V3, V4, etc, which will start coming sooner and sooner, until it's a new version every year (aka subscription model).

You are afraid they might use the monetization model of 99% of all paid software since the beginning of the computer industry?

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46 minutes ago, pixelstuff said:

Subscription software means if you stop subscribing, then the application stops working. The Affinity license are perpetual. They keep working, effectively forever, after you pay for the license. Paying to get an upgrade is not a subscription.

Any software that requires online activation, as it seems v2 does (unless anyone knows differently?) will only be installable as long as the activation servers are kept running, or the company provides an alternative solution. Earlier editions of Adobe's CS are now effectively worthless, because they can no longer be activated even if you have the boxed product. Once any machine you have the software on dies, you are permanently locked out of the package you paid for. Adobe did provide activation-free versions of CS2 and CS3 for a while, but these are no longer available, and they're not bothering for CS4. The industry standard definition of 'perpetual' for products that require online activation seems to be 'about a decade', so perhaps they are best thought of as long-term subscriptions. Affinity v1, on the other hand, really can be re-installed for as long as you have a compatible machine, because all it requires is a product key.

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6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

In my opinion, it's not truly a subscription model unless the software stops working if you stop paying. 

Yeah, it is not a subscription. I am OK with Affinity launching a new version every year or two, I am even OK if they hold new features for new versions. I Just want that the programs and the features my version has does not stop working or become buggy with a lot of workarounds. There are known bugs in V1 that I expected serif to patch today, and that was not the case.

It shoud be suported at least for a number of years or until windows 11 receive updates.

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4 minutes ago, GDCo said:

There are known bugs in V1 that I expected serif to patch today, and that was not the case.

Serif have not yet indicated their plans for fixing some of those critical bugs. But note that at least one is a Microsoft Windows bug, not an Affinity bug, and we should reasonably expect Microsoft to fix it, rather than Affinity (and other WPF-based apps) to work around it.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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23 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

In my opinion, it's not truly a subscription model unless the software stops working if you stop paying. 

Subscription doesn’t mean that. The horrible Adobe way does but for example Sketch allows you to carry on using it you just don’t get updates, which is fair enough. 

 

Marc

 

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1 hour ago, pixelstuff said:

Subscription software means if you stop subscribing, then the application stops working. The Affinity license are perpetual. They keep working, effectively forever, after you pay for the license. Paying to get an upgrade is not a subscription.

No it doesn’t mean that at all. It can stop if they choose but that is a choice not the definition.

 

Marc

 

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1 hour ago, VectorVonDoom said:

No it doesn’t mean that at all. It can stop if they choose but that is a choice not the definition.

Yes it does. If you don't subscribe and the software keeps working it is not under a subscription.

I get your point though that there can be other subscription systems tied to the concept of getting software. So maybe a more accurate terminology would subscription apps (existing software that needs a subscription to continue working and subscription updates (requiring a subscription for future updates or tech support).

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40 minutes ago, pixelstuff said:

Yes it does. If you don't subscribe and the software keeps working it is not under a subscription.

I get your point though that there can be other subscription systems tied to the concept of getting software. So maybe a more accurate terminology would subscription apps (existing software that needs a subscription to continue working and subscription updates (requiring a subscription for future updates or tech support).

Keep telling yourself that and it might make it true 😅 Yes, there's more than one way to implement a subscription and don't pay = you can't access your work is just one way. Sketch is an annual subscription but don't pay and you just don't get updates. it doesn't lock you out. Another example is an in between one. MS Office 365 subscription, stop paying and you can view and print work but can't edit it, so it changes to read only mode. So the company chooses how much to cripple the software, if at all, if you don't pay but they're still classed as subscriptions as you pay on a regular basis vs a perpetual license. They're just not always at Adobe's level of awfulness.

 

Marc

 

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4 hours ago, DrZigZag said:

sounds like a "TAX" just like in adobe, Serif is this this is where you gonna go now. PAY 2 PLAY? 🥵🥶🤢

Is this a joke? 

2 hours ago, monzo said:

Publisher was only released three years ago...

This. If there are no bug fixes for V1 owners - bearing in mind some of us have paid hundreds already for this stuff - and the products no longer work, then this is effectively a subscription by any other name.

"Hundreds"? Even if you bought all 5 apps full price (which would require epically bad timing since Serif has sales all the time!) you would maybe clear $200 USD. And if like me you've been using v1 for 5 years... That's pennies per day. In the same amount of time I would have needed to pay Adobe upwards of $3,000!! So yeah, $100 for v2 of all 6 apps is beyond worth it to me, no matter how long it is until v3. (And based on past performance, I don't think it will be anytime soon!) 🚑

And the software still works. It just doesn't have any updates. That's the same as if you bought any piece of software off the shelf back in the day. It would be static unless you purchased an upgrade. Only the bonus with Serif is that they don't charge for anything less than full version upgrades—and then it's your choice whether you upgrade. 🚑

2019 MacBook Pro 16” | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2

2018 iPad Pro 12.9” | Apple Pencil 2 | Affinity Designer for iPad 2 | Affinity Photo for iPad 2 | Affinity Publisher for iPad 2

Years with Affinity: 6 ❤️ graftedworks.com

FEATURE WISH LIST  Vector Mesh Tool    Shape Builder Tool   🥚True Vector Brushes   🥚Vector Pattern Fill  🥚Studio Link in All Apps

APP WISH LIST  Publisher   🥚2D Animation/Video

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9 minutes ago, Cealcrest said:

That's the same as if you bought any piece of software off the shelf back in the day.

Yeah it is the same, but back in the day the software was tested a lot before seeing the light of day. I have a affinity photo that does not work with my accelerated GPU, want to place a TXT file into my canvas, and display the wrong color codes in the HSL slider... That would not be happening back in the day.

So my question remains... WILL V1 be patched for known bugs and new ones to come as my windows updates? IF NOT this "perpetual license" is just bullshit IMO.
I just want the programs that I bought to work with no bugs os workarounds... If I want new features I will be happy to pay for them, bu the ones I already payed in V1 I want those to do as they were intended to.

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2 hours ago, GDCo said:

Yeah it is the same, but back in the day the software was tested a lot before seeing the light of day. I have a affinity photo that does not work with my accelerated GPU, want to place a TXT file into my canvas, and display the wrong color codes in the HSL slider... That would not be happening back in the day.

So my question remains... WILL V1 be patched for known bugs and new ones to come as my windows updates? IF NOT this "perpetual license" is just bullshit IMO.
I just want the programs that I bought to work with no bugs os workarounds... If I want new features I will be happy to pay for them, bu the ones I already payed in V1 I want those to do as they were intended to.

I think that’s seeing things through rose tinted spectacles, I remember plenty of bugs in software and, depending how far you go back, it was much more difficult to get updates. Of course everyone wants bug free software unfortunately there’s rarely if ever such a thing. 
 

No idea about v1 patches as I’m not affinity but I’m guessing no. However it is still a perpetual license as v1 hasn’t suddenly stopped working, no one says it will be supported and updated forever. Pretty much all software is the same, possibly annoying but it is what it is.

 

Marc

 

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Anywhere you draw the line on new features, someone is going to be left out and angry. I am OK with how Serif has handled this update... If.. If they continue to fix bugs in the v1 products. At least for a while! Not everyone is going to be able to upgrade soon. 

I DON'T expect the new Mesh Warp to appear in Designer v1. Should it have been there years ago? Arguably yes, but that ship has sailed, hit an iceberg, caught on fire, sunk, been raised by James Cameron, placed into a museum, burned down when the museum caught on fire, and memorialized on a stamp. 

I DO expect the awful bug that causes a hard crash to the desktop when you type in the font name picker to be fixed, though. 

Congrats on the release to everyone at Serif. V2 looks great. I'll be buying the bundle ... and I'll continue to complain about missing features like the good old days of v1! ;) 

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11 hours ago, Cealcrest said:

Is this a joke? 

"Hundreds"? Even if you bought all 5 apps full price (which would require epically bad timing since Serif has sales all the time!) you would maybe clear $200 USD. And if like me you've been using v1 for 5 years...

I own 7 apps. And no, that doesn't add up to $200. And no, like you, I haven't been using v1 for 5 years. Difficult anyway, considering Publisher, for example, has only been out for three.

11 hours ago, Cealcrest said:

 

And the software still works. It just doesn't have any updates.

And so at some point, it won't. Like when I run the next Windows, iOS, or Mac security update. There is now no guarantee how long it will work for, unless I risk running my devices with out of date, and potentially insecure operating systems.

The several hundred quid's worth of software I purchased has now been discontinued. So basically to ensure it keeps working I have to jump in and grab a £90 new purchase, at the same price as a totally new customer that hasn't already spent several hundred quid on them, or pay god knows what price if I miss this 'offer'.

Like a subscription, then.

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14 hours ago, VectorVonDoom said:

Subscription doesn’t mean that. The horrible Adobe way does but for example Sketch allows you to carry on using it you just don’t get updates, which is fair enough. 

According to sketch, what you described is not a subscription. its a Legacy Mac-only Licenses. Which allows app to keep working on the last supported version when license expires. While on subscription plan, you have to keep paying to use the app.

This scheme is very common in wordpress plugins. In Jetbrains they have similar and called it perpetual fallback license.

And I agree that this is fair enough.

But i like Affinity license even more. classic, simple and fair 🙂

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1 hour ago, bayustudio said:

According to sketch, what you described is not a subscription. its a Legacy Mac-only Licenses. Which allows app to keep working on the last supported version when license expires. While on subscription plan, you have to keep paying to use the app.

This scheme is very common in wordpress plugins. In Jetbrains they have similar and called it perpetual fallback license.

And I agree that this is fair enough.

But i like Affinity license even more. classic, simple and fair 🙂

That must be a relatively new thing, last I looked the only option was $99/year and worked as I said.

 

Marc

 

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6 hours ago, monzo said:

And so at some point, it won't. Like when I run the next Windows, iOS, or Mac security update. There is now no guarantee how long it will work for, unless I risk running my devices with out of date, and potentially insecure operating systems.

You are describing all software there.

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