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DarkClown

Basic Workflow with regards to window handling

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Todays: Workflow and WINDOWS
(putting all my critics in one thread seems to overtax you - since 90% gets lost)

- if you resize (zoom in/zoom out) the content of an undocked window can you please resize the window accordingly. (if the resulting content is smaller than the workspace of the screen, adapt the window accordingly, if the content is larger, maximize the window frame with scrollbars)
- If you zoom a view too 100% the position of the content seems to be "random". Please instead center the content and resize the window accordingly! (I know you can do it since you do it with the "fit window" view as well)
- having all windows floating a new document should start in floating mode as well
- when selecting  "float all" the content of all windows should be centered and not randomly put somewhere over the screen - (one is happy to find the content at all). Window size should be adapted to content.
- One should be able to drag and drop a layer from one document into another document (not just with CTRL+c CTRL+v). Additionally: when trying to drag and drop the user gets the impression It would work based on the way the cursor changes when you drag a layer into another document - but in fact nothing happens.
- ESC still does not cancel essential operation e.g. cropping

Most of these bullet points have been mentioned many years ago even though they are absolutely crucial workflow topics. And we are not talking complicated additional features and rocket science - we are talking absolutely BASICS! You just simply ignore them. People that seriously try to work with the software are not of interest for you guys - what upsets me. I keep bringing them up every 6 month what seems to be a complete waste of time. I would roughly guess that AP takes up 30%-40% additional mouse-movements, keystrokes and actions to get to the same results as PS does JUST and purely due to your extremely poor workflow and handling issues. And we all know that time is money.

Cheers, Timo


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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On 5/23/2019 at 8:28 AM, Chris J said:

Thanks for these workflow suggestions @DarkClown. I can assure you they are not ignored.

Cheers!

Chris

Have been for a couple of years by now ;-) ... Don't worry ... I'll keep annoying you guys with them and you'll keep ignoring them ... works out pretty well ...

Cheers, Timo


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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OK guys, you made my day ... latest beta Version ... I was allover excited to read that at least one out my 69 bullet points seem to have found it's way into the program.

But than ... Do you know this feeling when you are not sure if you want to burst out laughing ... or maybe start crying like hell? Thanks for that emotional roller-coaster.

YES, when in floating mode you now open a new window somehow "floating" as well ... But you now open the new window in a new "container" of an already existing floating window. This is USELESS! I never though you could possibly do this wrong - but you managed. New floating window means really a NEW floating window ... not attaching it in some kind of container to an existing floating window (and docking it de facto as well). Feels like you deliberately want to prove that my suggestion is stupid. And the way you implemented it it's true! And yes, I got the message that you really don't work with it yourself and don't see the use in it ... I guess I have to be more precise and detailed in describing a useful workflow.

And I promise - I will never again say you ignore my suggestions again ... PROMISE!

 

Cheer, Timo


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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Timo, we looked at other applications to see how they implemented this workflow suggestion, and we implemented it in the same way as them (i.e. new windows are docked into floating containers). I apologise if this isn't what you meant in your original suggestion "having all windows floating a new document should start in floating mode as well", as you can probably appreciate, that single sentence was reasonably ambiguous.

We do appreciate the suggestions, but please tone down on the negativity ("This is USELESS! I never though you could possibly do this wrong - but you managed.", etc).

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It's an interesting implementation. In a mixed mode, with some windows floating and some docked, if one of the docked windows has the focus, then File > New and File > Open will make the new window docked.

In Float All mode, or if one of the floating windows has the focus in mixed mode, the new document opens docked within that window. But it can easily be dragged into its own floating window.

It would be nice if there were a Preference for that latter behavior, so that the user could say "always open a new window as floating by itself", and save the need to do the drag. Please consider that for the future.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 2004 (19041.388),
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   Laptop:  8GB memory, Intel Core i7-3625QM @ 2.30GHz, Intel HD Graphics 4000 or NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M
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2 minutes ago, Mark Ingram said:

Timo, we looked at other applications to see how they implemented this workflow suggestion, and we implemented it in the same way as them (i.e. new windows are docked into floating containers).

Hmm, seems like Photoshop wasn't among the apps you looked at ...  (frankly spoken I don't know any app that implements new windows the way you do it - now)

4 minutes ago, Mark Ingram said:

I apologise if this isn't what you meant in your original suggestion "having all windows floating a new document should start in floating mode as well", as you can probably appreciate, that single sentence was reasonably ambiguous.

I agree with you - there was space for interpretation that I haven't thought of - I guess my mistake. I'll try to be more specific on my suggestions.

6 minutes ago, Mark Ingram said:

We do appreciate the suggestions, but please tone down on the negativity ("This is USELESS! I never though you could possibly do this wrong - but you managed.", etc).

I'll try to ... can be a result of over-boarding cynical emotions ;-) ... First part is a fact ... and agree: I could have saved the second part.
Try to see the positive side: If I'd have given up on Affinity I wouldn't be still constantly posting improvement suggestions and testing your software - for the price of an old mans rant. I'll add a couple more good-mood-smileys in future. :-)


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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Hi Mark,

just checked again for the setting in PS. Not sure what is the default but by the looks of it you have a checkbox "open document as tab" in PS settings for the interface that triggers this behavior. Wasn't checked on my system but when activated the windows behavior is similar to AP (wasn't even aware of that). Would it be possible to choose the behavior in AP settings too and alternatively have a new document in a separate floating window?

Cheers, Timo

Good mood smiley :-)


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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I think the desired behaviour is pretty simple - it should be flexible, like Photoshop. It's great that we can now have files open in floating Windows, but operating with floating windows is clunky. You should have the option for windows to resize automatically when zooming, or to remain fixed in sizes  - there are cases where you may want to do one or the other. Photoshop has a toolbar switch to change the default behaviour for this, but CRUCIALLY, it has keyboard overrides, so you can work in one mode but hold down a modifier key when zooming to switch to the other. The image should automatically be centred in the window if it is smaller than the window. I could go on, but really what I want to say is: JUST COPY PHOTOSHOP. It does everything you could want, including the same keyboard modifiers. I'm not the only person using both apps, and if basic workflow stuff is similar then that's a reason to keep and use Affinity Photo.

 


Windows 7 & 10 64-bit, Dual Xeon workstation(s) 64gb RAM, and single i7 laptop 32gb RAM

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Don't mention the war ;-)

These topics have been addressed since the "early years" of Affinity ... and not a micron changed ... workflow is not a part of the Affinity business concept (in terms of SW development) - and never has been. New features always get higher priorities. *whinge-whinge" ... it's a embarrassment that even the most simple and basic topics (e.g. centring the zoomed content in a window) don't get fixed as a side effect of one of the frequent updates ... Affinity is missing the big opportunity to jump on a steep learning curve by observing competitor products e.g. photoshop and instantly do things right in a professional way where others needed 20 years of evolution and customer input for. But it seems Affinity wants to reserve themselves the right to insist on many mistakes Adobe did before as well ... and maybe take 20 years as well to refine their product to professional level.

But there might be another explanation why theses workflow topics have not been addressed: Maybe Affinity does not expect or can't imagine to have customers that might want to work with their product on an every day professional level (come on guys ... a little bit more self esteem! Despite all the criticism we still believe in your product! We love you! It's just so hard to see and watch you struggle getting the product up to standards ) .... *MEG* ....

We all need more positive attitude ... if you can't change things - laugh about them ;-)
Stay healthy!
Cheers, Timo

B.t.w: I want animated gifs in the forum to express my feelings *ggg*


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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I've made similar suggestions as well in the past (yes I see this thread is necroed). Your checklist is more complete than I could manage.

It's frustrating because there's features/implementations in AP/AD that really do knock it out of the park... but then it's really hobbled by silly weird UI hitches and lack of attention to detail such as window management. Designers are already generally OCD, so it sort of throws the kink in the works getting people to really adjust to the program and fully switch from workflows that are more familiar and polished... they really should think about this. Yes, it's the nature of the beast but it is an attention to detail that makes us designers to begin with.


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