More about Shadow Creation

[Dennis Nisbet]

I have become very frustrated trying to duplicate in Affinity Photo, what I do in Photoshop. I really want to do all of this in Affinity Photo, but I am having a difficult time finding Tutorials or following the directions that some of you have provided.

The entire process involves some changes to Affinity Photo and a way for me to understand how to achieve some effects in Affinity Photo so I can apply them.

Some things I can do differently like pre-sizing placement images without them being open then placing and final, sized image, in the background.

Once I learn and reproduce this, I should be able to create a Macro.

I really want to move away from Photoshop to something better. I realize that Adobe had many years to perfect Photoshop, and it may not be possible, at this time, to achieve the same with Affinity Photo. If that is the case, it is OK. Just tell me.

But if there is a way to do what I want in Affinity Photo, please tell me how with illustrations and detailed explanations I can follow.

Perhaps, if I demonstrate the process in a video along with more detailed instructions, it will help you help me.

1.       When I open images in Photoshop, they appear just as you see them now without adjusting the frames.

2.       Whenever possible, I try to use some reference to approximate the size of an image to the background. In this case, according to some data I found on the web, the wagon wheel was probably 44” tall and the average man at that time was 66 inches tall. Simple math makes this image for the man about 7 inches tall.

3.       I can drag the man into position on the background.

4.       Using a Photoshop Action or, in this case, where I created the Action and had a Script created, I can create a second, duplicate layer of the man and change it to a gradient.

5.       Using the FREE TRANSFORM tool, I can adjust the position of the SHADOW consistent with the position of the other shadows.

6.       Along with this video, I have included the two images used to create this demonstration.

1 Cowboy Cutout.afphoto

2_Wagon_Wheel_Perspective_Corrected.afphoto

[walt.farrell]

Just a comment, rather than an answer, Dennis. There are several forums. In particular, when you have a question (such as this one) about how you can do something, it will be more helpful to us and probably to you if you post in the forum for questions, Affinity on Desktop Questions (Mac and Windows) rather than here in the forum for suggestions for new features. It's more likely to get attention and answers in the proper forum.

One of the moderators may notice this and move it.

[Dennis Nisbet]

When I get smarter about how to do this I will. Silly me, I thought I was posting on that forum.

I will learn in time, maybe?  Thanks for letting me know. This is the second time I got it wrong.

[carl123]

Not sure why you are having so much trouble with this

1. After placing the cowboy image, duplicate it
2. Add a threshold adjustment to the duplicate and move slider, all the way to the right, so that the entire cowboy duplicate image changes to pure black.
3. Reselect this shadow layer and in the transform panel set the rotation node to middle bottom position (IMPORTANT - see image below) then adjust the skew value to about -58 degrees
4. Still in the transform panel change the height to about 4.2" ( make sure the maintain aspect ratio "link" is not active, you only want to change the height not the width)
5. Reduce opacity of shadow layer to that of a shadow (e.g. 50%)
6. Add a Live Gaussian Blur Filter to your shadow layer and adjust as required (e.g. 8px)
7. Move original cowboy image to top of layer stack so it is in front of the shadow

Everything above is now still fully adjustable, so you can tweak all settings to those required

There are other ways to make a shadow more realistic like, tapering, and adding gradients to make one end of the shadow lighter or darker, and also making the blurriness into a gradient but for your image the above steps should be enough to get a basic shadow.

 

[Pariah73]

That is one short gunslinger  

(also, good tip with the rotation point for the shadow!)

@Dennis Nisbet when you follow the instructions provided by @carl123 you can record your actions in a macro for future use, much as you did with your script in PS

[carl123]

18 minutes ago, Pariah73 said:

..... you can record your actions in a macro for future use...

Good luck trying to get that to work reliably on differently sized images.

Affinity Macros are not that flexible as yet.

[Pariah73]

3 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Good luck trying to get that to work reliably on differently sized images.

Affinity Macros are not that flexible as yet.

Oops, my bad, I meant macro for doing the gunslinger's shadow..geez, read my mind, would ya? 

[Old Bruce]

6 hours ago, Pariah73 said:

...geez, read my mind, would ya?

I say that to my computer several times a day hour, whenever I make a mistake.

Thanks for my morning laugh.

[John Rostron]

8 hours ago, carl123 said:

then adjust the skew value to about -58 degrees

@carl123, the shadows of the fence are to  the left of the actual fence, but the cowboy's shadow is to his right!

John

[carl123]

I know, but I was following the OP's workflow, just as a way of showing him how to recreate what he did in his Photoshop video, rather than correctly positioning the shadow relative to the sun

[John Rostron]

2 minutes ago, carl123 said:

I know, but I was following the OP's workflow, just as a way of showing him how to recreate what he did in his Photoshop video, rather than correctly positioning the shadow relative to the sun

I thought of that afterwards, but had not had the chance to look at the oiginal video.

John-

[Pariah73]

3 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I say that to my computer several times a day hour, whenever I make a mistake.

Thanks for my morning laugh.

Happy to oblige!

[R C-R]

11 hours ago, Pariah73 said:

That is one short gunslinger  

Indeed he is, because since he is nearer to the camera than the wagon wheel, he should be proportionally larger to account for that. As it is, it looks like if he was moved back next to the fence, he would be about as tall as it is.

Also, he can't be from the same 'old West' era as the wagon wheel because he appears to be a model holding a machine pistol, dressed in high fashion leather duds. 

Slightly more seriously, step 3 of the method suggested by @carl123 can also be done on the canvas -- set the rotation center to the bottom center of the shadow layer & move the pointer to just above the top center control handle so it changes to a double horizontal arrow shape & drag to skew (sheer) the image interactively.

[Dennis Nisbet]

@carl123 Thank you for the details. Perhaps I should have shown more in the video.

FYI, I am trying really hard to illustrate what I can do in Photoshop that I want to do in Affinity Photo. To that end, I'm not paying a lot of attention to small details like sizes or relative positions of objects or shadows. In the image you saw, I thought the guy was carrying a water pistol or a BB gun.

The Script allows the user to select a solid black shadow or a shadow with a fixed Gradient. Either one starts with the opacity at 66% and adjustable. It would be ideal if I could adjust the Gradient after the Macro was done. An adjustable Gradient would eliminate the need for both choices in the Script or Macro.

Does this information change what you were suggesting?

Again, thanks to everyone that is offering ideas. This is what I was hoping would happen.

Also, object sizing in composites is always an issue. In searching the web for this video I found that old west cowboys were mostly short but some were taller and that wagon wheels were 33 to 44 inches! In the eighteen hundreds, men, in some parts of the country were as much as 15 inches shorter than they are today.

 

[Dennis Nisbet]

To Carl123,

I followed your directions and made some progress. You're so accustomed to working with Affinity Photo that you probably whizzed right through this. Not me! I learned that if I placed the image it was embedded and I couldn't do anything. After fighting with the nuances for the better part of the day, I did get to a point where I could see some possibilities. I've illustrated that in the attached video. I still don't know how to change the SHADOW image to a GRADIENT instead of the solid black/semitransparent image. However, I REALLY like the quality of the  transparency, 

 I think that the inherent problem is that Affinity Photo does not have a method to FREE TRANSFORM. That feature alone allows the user to manipulate the shadow image from the top stretching it, shrinking it and moving around to any position.

The other missing component would be the ability to add a gradient and a real plus would be to have a method to modify the gradient after the shadow is created. I found a programmer that could facilitate this as a plugin for Photoshop. It would cost me, Big Bucks!  My Scriptwriter couldn't come up with a way to do it.

Now, for some really good news, while working with this I found a couple of things that are very important for shadow creation like. Keep in mind that anyone can make a good SINGLE shadow. It just takes time, patience and a good eye. Obviously, if you are only working on one image, you have all the time in the world.

I just guessing but there could be as many as TEN MILLION people that would like a better way. I've been very active in the professional market for many years and there are a lot of people in that group that would love to have this. There are many more in beside's them that would be thrilled also.

So, please watch the video and then tell me some great ways to do what I am asking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[carl123]

The Gradient Tool will allow you to "simply" add a gradient to any object.

In EXAMPLE 1 below I started with the pure black shadow image, selected the Gradient Tool and drew a line from the top of the image to the bottom.  (Since the Gradient Tool is still selected you can see the line that it draws).

By selecting either of the 2 end nodes on the gradient line you can adjust the gradient as required by using controls in the Colour Panel.

In EXAMPLE 2 I have simply moved the shadow to the ground to show how it can be used to give a graduated shadow effect.  Note: you do not have to apply the gradient before moving the shadow, it can be done afterwards if required.

If you want/need to adjust the gradient later you simply select the shadow layer then reselect the Gradient Tool and your gradient line will reappear and you can adjust the nodes as necessary.

Now it may get a bit tricky/confusing:

The Gradient Tool works differently depending on if you are using it on an Image layer or a Pixel layer (as denoted in the Layers Panel).

In my example (below) I have used it on Image layers.  For Image layers you adjust the Opacity setting in the Colour Panel to adjust the gradient for each node of the Gradient Line.  If you look at my image below you will see that I have the Top node of the Gradient line selected and the opacity in the colour panel has been set to 0%, hence the faded effect  (If I set the opacity to 100% the top of my shadow would be pure black just like the bottom)

In your last video your Shadow Layer is a pixel layer rather than an image layer.  To apply a gradient just to the shadow part of that pixel layer, you first need to select just the black shadow by using the Flood Select Tool and then clicking on the shadow. Once that is done you can switch to the Gradient Tool and draw your gradient line as before (top to bottom).

On a pixel layer the gradient's colour is (mostly) set by the colour values in the Colour Panel.  So select the top node of the gradient line and in the Colour Panel, make sure the opacity is at 100%, then set the colour to white (or a light grey, depending on the shadow effect you want). Then select the bottom node of the gradient line and set that to Black.

(Note: The opacity can also be altered to affect the gradient, if needed, but set the colours first)

If you have not had time to play with the Gradient Tool as yet I would recommend spending a little time with it (on simple images/shapes etc) to see how it works and what it can do.  You will then find it easier to apply it to actual shadows in your document(s)

Using Gradients in your shadows as well as adjusting the Opacity of the Shadows and using Blur on your shadows is just another way of making shadows more realistic when trying to create them manually.

 

 

[carl123]

1 hour ago, Dennis Nisbet said:

I learned that if I placed the image it was embedded and I couldn't do anything

If you File > Place your cowboy afphoto file into another document it will be an Embedded layer

If you just open the afphoto file then copy and paste it into another document it will be Pixel layer

If you had previously exported your cowboy afphoto file to a PNG file, and then File > Place that PNG file into another document it will be an Image Layer

Each of the above 3 different layer types (Embedded, Pixel, Image) can react differently depending on what you are trying to do with them.  There is no one correct type you should endeavour to always use as it all depends on what you intend doing with them as to which is suitable for the task in hand.

[Pariah73]

Yes, @R C-R  I would rather that you didn't expound on it as I didn't want it to seem a criticism but just a little laugh and scroll kind of thing. No harm done in a runty cowboy. I'm quite the capable runt myself

@carl123  Are there so many ways of working with Embedded/Pixel/Image that we need to study up on this? Would you be willing to expound on the different reactions you referred to? I haven't run into much information on the different ways you can/cannot work with each option.

[carl123]

It would take a better man than me to explain all the differences between Embedded, Pixel and Image layers and all what you can or cannot do with them. Besides it would take this thread too much off-topic to do so here. The more you use them the more you will discover their individual strengths and weaknesses.

[R C-R]

7 hours ago, Dennis Nisbet said:

I think that the inherent problem is that Affinity Photo does not have a method to FREE TRANSFORM.

I am not completely sure what you mean by that, but in your last video at around 3: 45 when you begin using the top skew handle you may not have realized you can also (as a separate action) use any of the four center handles (the ones not on the corners of the bounding box) to change the height or width of the skewed layer. So if you want to make the shadow longer or shorter you can do that too, using those handles.

Alternately, you could apply a Live Perspective Filter to the shadow layer, which would allow you to taper the shadow non-destructively.

[carl123]

Photoshop allows you to both skew and adjust the height of the image at the same time just by grabbing one node and moving the image how you want to, which makes the positioning of the shadow much quicker and easier.

In the OP's original Photoshop video he briefly demonstrates that at about 2:22

At this time Afphoto does not have that capability, so you have to do it in 2 separate steps as you have outlined above.

The nearest I can get to the Photoshop technique is the use the Warp tool and select the top 2 nodes simultaneously and move/skew it that way but that just introduces so much distortion on the image it's not really suitable and will drive you mad trying to correct it. (It's doable but not easily done)

For now the 2 step approach in Afphoto seems to be the easiest/quickest way we have to emulate that particular Photoshop function.

[R C-R]

10 minutes ago, carl123 said:

The nearest I can get to the Photoshop technique is the use the Warp tool ...

Have you tried using the Live Perspective Filter for this? It can be a little tricky to get the base of the shadow just right but otherwise it seems to do the job quite well.

[Pariah73]

55 minutes ago, carl123 said:

It would take a better man than me to explain all the differences between Embedded, Pixel and Image layers and all what you can or cannot do with them. Besides it would take this thread too much off-topic to do so here. The more you use them the more you will discover their individual strengths and weaknesses.

Ah well, I tried lol I liked the consise way you explained the steps for the shadow creation so I thought I'd throw it out there

[R C-R]

Very briefly, an image layer is like an individual embedded layer, while an embedded document is an entire embedded native Affinity format file, including all its layers.

[Dennis Nisbet]

WOW! I really appreciate all the great input.

It is going to take me a little time to go through and make sure I don't miss anything.

I am especially intrigued by the GRADIENT concept. Especially since the end user can adjust both density and Gradient position.

Based on what I am reading, it may also be possible to easily readjust the shadow position thus making everything flexible.

Compared to what you can do now, this is far above what any other program offers. (FLEXIBILITY and SPEED!)

One important thing is missing and Affinity would have to resolve this. (FREE TRANSFORM)

Just imagine what a great tool you might have with both complete flexibility and Free Transformation during the creation process.

I think this would far exceed anything that has been offered when creating SHADOWS. And after all, shadows are the anchor.

Thank you for your continued input. I really look forward to your next comments.

BTW, the person who comes up with a way to accurately, not visually, size different objects in a composite should get a big reward!