Earlier threads have been moved to an archive forum

[Patrick Connor]

All Bug reports from 2.2 and 2.2 beta cycles have been moved to this archive forum

 

[Bit Disappointed]

Does this mean that there will be no v2.2.2 etc. or simply that these will be handled in production groups/threads?

[Patrick Connor]

17 minutes ago, Bit Arts said:

Does this mean that there will be no v2.2.2 etc. or simply that these will be handled in production groups/threads?

Yes it does. Safe/quick fixes for 2.2.0 went into 2.2.1 . Any fix that needed a longer beta cycle went into 2.3.0 whose codebase started when we mastered 2.2.0. The first beta (due very soon) contains new features and improvements and over 100 bug fixes.

[Affinityconfusesme]

 @Bit Arts2.3 is starting if you did not notice that the new feature section was changed to 2.3.

[Bit Disappointed]

7 minutes ago, tzvi20 said:

 @Bit Arts2.3 is starting if you did not notice that the new feature section was changed to 2.3.

I did notice.

[Bit Disappointed]

26 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

Yes it does. Safe/quick fixes for 2.2.0 went into 2.2.1 . Any fix that needed a longer beta cycle went into 2.3.0 whose codebase started when we mastered 2.2.0. The first beta (due very soon) contains new features and improvements and over 100 bug fixes.

Now I'm depressed. I struggle with and curse this bug every single day on the fast iPad Pro 2022 M2, and never imagined you didn't fix the problem in a subsequent 2.2.x fix.

I can't, may not, and won't use beta software for production work, so I'm going to be waiting months for a fix I don't know is coming, which is also frustrating.

 

[Affinityconfusesme]

13 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

Yes it does. Safe/quick fixes for 2.2.0 went into 2.2.1 . Any fix that needed a longer beta cycle went into 2.3.0 whose codebase started when we mastered 2.2.0. The first beta (due very soon) contains new features and improvements and over 100 bug fixes.

looking forward to new things whenever it starts...🙂

[Bit Disappointed]

1 hour ago, tzvi20 said:

looking forward to new things whenever it starts...🙂

🥱 Yes, but I'm not a hobbyist, so I prioritise stability and performance above all else. 

[Affinityconfusesme]

hi @Patrick Connor how soon is "very soon"?

[Affinityconfusesme]

I am a hobbyist(mainly) so new things are always nice.

[Bit Disappointed]

2 minutes ago, tzvi20 said:

I am a hobbyist(mainly) so new things are always nice.

Yes, I could figure that out, and it's interesting enough to follow, but for other customers, there are serious priorities that come first. My clients don't hire me to have a hobby to look forward to. There's no honor or professionalism in laying the tracks while the train is moving, but I am fully aware that Serif might need to fix the problem I am currently experiencing by changing more fundamental code in Affinity.

[debraspicher]

2 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

Yes it does. Safe/quick fixes for 2.2.0 went into 2.2.1 . Any fix that needed a longer beta cycle went into 2.3.0 whose codebase started when we mastered 2.2.0. The first beta (due very soon) contains new features and improvements and over 100 bug fixes.

Looking forward to it, Patrick. Sorry if it seems like we give you all a hard time.

Edit: FYI for others: I haven't read any of the replies up above yet as I'm only just now checking notifications (as a follower)

[Patrick Connor]

21 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

Sorry if it seems like we give you all a hard time.

Thanks. 22 years of communicating with Serif customers gives you sloping shoulders and most of it does not hit that hard. I/we welcome critique and some people are rightly cross about their experience of the software, and entitled to express it.

As Head of Testing I understand the balance we try to walk between making changes/improvements user want/need and fixing the issues that exist. Some need their issue addressed, some need the missing thing adding, both are true and all are welcome here to express their opinions (preferably just the once and not over and over in multiple threads).

2.3 may be quite a quick beta cycle, so if you need a fix to be in a release build, I would say our expectation is for 2.3 to be released this year, though as always that is testing dependent.

[debraspicher]

49 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

Thanks. 22 years of communicating with Serif customers gives you sloping shoulders and most of it does not hit that hard. I/we welcome critique and some people are rightly cross about their experience of the software, and entitled to express it.

As Head of Testing I understand the balance we try to walk between making changes/improvements user want/need and fixing the issues that exist. Some need their issue addressed, some need the missing thing adding, both are true and all are welcome here to express their opinions (preferably just the once and not over and over in multiple threads).

2.3 may be quite a quick beta cycle, so if you need a fix to be in a release build, I would say our expectation is for 2.3 to be released this year, though as always that is testing dependent.

Balance is important, I agree. Does this mean possibly v2.4 is when we will be looking at the larger list of bugs getting deserved treatment? (I don't think that's what's being expressed here. I'm just clarifying)

It would make sense if there's changes that are coming into the betas that were already being made in the background, but just haven't been made into beta waiting to be "baked in" so to speak to clear up the missing feature list. That would explain the quicker betas, but it's only my assumption. I'm just wondering if there's been consideration given to going back and maybe taking a longer cycle to get these cleaned up? Obviously until anything is set in stone, it can't be said out loud here.

[Bit Disappointed]

1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said:

Thanks. 22 years of communicating with Serif customers gives you sloping shoulders and most of it does not hit that hard. I/we welcome critique and some people are rightly cross about their experience of the software, and entitled to express it.

There's no one in this thread who gave Serif a hard time or anything close to it. It's been quite normal communication between customer and company. At least by adult standards.

Serif has a wonderfully civilised approach to its forum where a lot is tolerated and recognised as legitimate feedback or criticism. In my many years as a passive observer and now active participant, I've barely seen any Serif staff write anything sensitive or moderate regular human communication and criticism. The overly sensitive reactions have almost exclusively come from customers who must live a sheltered life in a panic room at home with soft walls. The world has become a strange place where evolution, as Ricky Gervais rightly observes, has resulted in this strong human race ultimately... being afraid of... words.

If one spends a little less time in protected environments like online forums, and more at workplaces, in face to face debates between genuinely disagreeing individuals, and especially against the ultimate opponent, a confident mother-in-law, they would probably be a bit more resilient.

So, thank you to Serif for a high and mature standard.

[Patrick Connor]

52 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

Does this mean....

As always I leave the announcements and features to Ash and the marketing team, sorry 

[François R]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:29 PM, Patrick Connor said:

Thanks. 22 years of communicating with Serif customers gives you sloping shoulders and most of it does not hit that hard. I/we welcome critique and some people are rightly cross about their experience of the software, and entitled to express it.

As Head of Testing I understand the balance we try to walk between making changes/improvements user want/need and fixing the issues that exist. Some need their issue addressed, some need the missing thing adding, both are true and all are welcome here to express their opinions (preferably just the once and not over and over in multiple threads).

2.3 may be quite a quick beta cycle, so if you need a fix to be in a release build, I would say our expectation is for 2.3 to be released this year, though as always that is testing dependent.

@Patrick Connor @Ash

So after 22 years, you are still so unprofessional that you don't know that you don't chat about the topic 'our customers' loosely with other customers like this - while at least one of them is listening. This is a forum. Not a bar or bus stop.

As a company, I can see from your communication and products that you can learn a lot from larger companies and players. 

You seem to have lulled yourselves to sleep in the provincial and gotten used to the dangerous distance to customers that has arisen with computers and the internet. This is clearly reflected in product quality and communication.

It's shameful and strange that feedback from bit arts here is not taken seriously and answered in a mature and professional manner, not with smilies and hobby forum chatter like here. Let professionals handle customer communication.

My sympathies, @Bit Arts and other affected customers.

Serif Software, it's course time : https://delighted.com/blog/customer-engagement-101

(And no, I have nothing to say about the predictable comments of the forum's entrenched members that follow. I'm just stopping by to give this feedback directly to Serif. Unfortunately, I see that nothing has changed, so our decision was correct. Bye.)

[MikeW]

I believe Serif, Patrick in particular, has one of the best track records regarding communication and customer engagement. 

I don't write the above as a fanboy. There are several reasons why I generally don't use Affinity applications for my daily work. Patrick, Serif, knows those reasons. Frankly, I don't know why they tolerate my presence sometimes 😉

[Bit Disappointed]

I have to admit I am used to better.

[Patrick Connor]

14 hours ago, Bit Arts said:

I have to admit I am used to better.

Sorry

[anto]

On 10/24/2023 at 8:29 PM, Patrick Connor said:

As Head of Testing I understand the balance we try to walk between making changes/improvements user want/need and fixing the issues that exist. Some need their issue addressed, some need the missing thing adding, both are true and all are welcome here to express their opinions (preferably just the once and not over and over in multiple threads).

I believe that when choosing priorities, you forget one important detail. I realized this when preparing the newspaper in beta version 2.3.
You can draw a parallel between an orchestra and a program.
If each instrument in the orchestra plays its part flawlessly, but all together they fake it, then the orchestra is impossible to listen to.
If all the instruments in a program work individually, but not together, then the program is generally defective and inoperable.
Working on a newspaper is a creative process that combines different tools. The process itself should be enjoyable.
If you read my review, you will see how many small and important things were missed.

[debraspicher]

51 minutes ago, anto said:

I believe that when choosing priorities, you forget one important detail. I realized this when preparing the newspaper in beta version 2.3.
You can draw a parallel between an orchestra and a program.
If each instrument in the orchestra plays its part flawlessly, but all together they fake it, then the orchestra is impossible to listen to.
If all the instruments in a program work individually, but not together, then the program is generally defective and inoperable.
Working on a newspaper is a creative process that combines different tools. The process itself should be enjoyable.
If you read my review, you will see how many small and important things were missed.

Bugs that are left in sporadically, front and center are guaranteed to cause tension when using the program. Especially if the users are accustomed to a polished experience. There are implementations I really dislike in other software I use, but I never feel unproductive because it simply just works. That simplicity and polish carries over session to session and so I learn to build trust in the program, rather than question every aspect of it.

There are sessions I have few issues with Affinity. Others where I merely do a basic thing upon opening a document and am already writing a bug report. Bugs happen and this is to be expected, but the worst part is when they're left in for so long and unfixed. It doesn't feel productive to report at times, especially if I suspect it's a much older bug and it's just my first time encountering it. Some people have become adjusted to workflows that work around issues and can dismiss more easily. I had this relationship with Adobe products, especially toxic Illustrator with it's own silly issues, so I fully comprehend wanting to stick up for something that for all its problems still feels best to use despite its flaws...

[anto]

5 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

so I fully comprehend wanting to stick up for something that for all its problems still feels best to use despite its flaws...

I write bug reports and my impressions not because I am against Serif. I write them to get them noticed and fixed. If I have encountered it, at least 100 other users will too.
The latest version simply collects all the bugs that affect my workflow. When there were 2-3 of them, I didn't write anything, because the previous versions weren't perfect either, but in latest beta, every step is a bug. So I wrote that one.