Affinity products for Linux

[mzzfdrc]

16 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Windows is installed at every home PC I know of, except those Linux friends I mentioned above. And... Each home I know of, friends, neighbors, professionals I deal with, friends of my friends, folks I meet in a pub, people which situations are described to me (about having a PC at home)....All is PC, and Windows. Very few cases with a Mac ( but right now, around here, I can think of more cases than with Linux). Linux, only those friends (less than ten people). And some people from my jobs at web dev companies ( I was inaccurate before, one of the game companies was Linux based. It sunk immediately, tho, But not due to Linux fault). Of course, could be my "luck", and my country. Who knows. I'm known for solving issues with PCs in several OSes among friends, or people that know people that I know, etc.... and called often to fix this or that (in exchange of some 0,0 beer, making me a delicious dinner, or whatever, lol). True that today most of those have also some sort of portable device, be it a phablet, tablet, or laptop. (and every soul has a phone or several).

Sincerely, I see no decay in Windows usage. Not being happy or unhappy about this being so, honestly. My main point is always pragmatism. Whatever comes as replacement (Linux, or whatever shows up) is fine with me. ONCE (never a second before) I can do what I have to do with the software that I need, with whatever the OS replacement. No preference.

 

No surprise there, Windows has been installed in basically 99.9% of PCs sold in stores. Until companies start installing Linux instead en masse or it really enters popular culture, you'll never see Linux really fly for common users. And that's why you don't see most of the software you need too.

Basically once IBM compatible became the standard and Windows the de facto standard OS for those, there was no competition. Reasons are historical mostly, since accessible Linux wasn't really a thing until quite a bit later. But what can they do? Money and developers' time don't grow on trees, it's amazing where it stands being open. On smartphones and servers it's dominating like there are no chances of other systems ever beating it because they're all based on it (only iOS runs a relative of BSD).

 

If Android had been a desktop OS in the 90s sure it would have dominated too - just take a look at the Windows Phone share. Lovely OS, didn't go anywhere without apps.

 

[GDPR-365024]

I'm currently using Windows 10 on a laptop (ASUS Rog) however I'm looking at building a desktop system in the next couple of months just for photographic editing—actually my son will build it!  

it'll be 100% Linux—I've used Linux on and off since the early noughties (starting with Mandrake).  

The image apps I'll be using, and currently on my laptop, are Darktable, LightZone and Gimp ... all very capable pro level apps. Darktable by itself is an outstanding non destructive module based editor with (history retaining) sidecar files that are only 2KB in size.

IMHO I really can't see the issue re the lack of capable image editors for Linux.

Oh, to keep everything in perspective here's a pic of my main 'image app' back in the day when I was printing my own and other pro photog's images ... just saying that's all       

[Renzatic]

4 minutes ago, PedroOfOz said:

IMHO I really can't see the issue re the lack of capable image editors for Linux.

Darktable is a solid piece of software. It can come surprisingly close to Lightroom in output quality, with a price that can't be beat.

But GIMP? Maybe I'm being a little too hard on it. I dunno. I've heard it's improved by a goodly amount over its past few updates. But from my experiences with it, it remains the only piece of software that's actually managed to make me angry. I remember the trials and tribulations I had to go through just trying to save an image as a .jpg file. You don't just hit Ctrl-Shift-S, and save it as a .jpg file. Oh no. It can't be simple like it is in PS. You have to export it, otherwise it'll always save it as an .xcf file. That just made me so mad...

Now I'm using Affinity Photo, which pretty much does the exact same thing. Sometimes life is just unbearably cruel.

Oh, and props for having what's easily the most awesomest user avatar on the site.

[SrPx]

Quote

Oh, to keep everything in perspective here's a pic of my main 'image app' back in the day when I was printing

I've handled those...    

This was my printing machine, tho :

Yep, I agree with Gimp being very powerful, too. 

Quote

 You have to export it, otherwise it'll always save it as an .xcf file. That just made me so mad... 

That is by far the smallest of its issues... to the point that in comparison.... is a no-issue, sorry....  

And any of the many that it has, are no biggie compared to the resistance in adding an actual CMYK mode, and better color management. But latest developments "might" put them in the direction of at least (due to internal code structure making till now very hard to add a new mode) be able to add proper CMYK support. But emerging the possibility is not actually ensuring that it will happen, as seems they have no will to do it. And more importantly, not enough programmers, which is key. Which is fine ( as you can stop using it, is just like the linux port thing here...no conflict  ). It might get added in a far future. Probably we will not be using paper by then, maybe that's their hope...But that is always predicted, and never happens...we keep printing.... 

Anyways, a very capable app, at quite a high level, IMO.  HUGELY underrated, and shockingly, specially by Linux users, while it is in the soul and DNA of Linux history

Most people disliking it haven't dedicated a long time giving it a serious chance...

[GDPR-365024]

Thanks for the avatar complement. It's a Quokka found only on an island off the west coast of Australia (not far from Perth).

Check this out     

[Renzatic]

Ha! Awesome! Can you mail one?

I'll name him Steve-Bob. He'll be my best friend forever.

[Jay Kyburz]

Hey All, I'm not a Linux user, but have been planning the jump.

Affinity Designer is one of the applications I will miss, which is how I found myself reading this thread.

I was shocked by @toltec comments and don't understand why the moderators would allow him to troll the forums.

I didn't come to ask *if* Affinity apps will run on Android / Linux, but *when*.

 

 

[Renzatic]

22 minutes ago, SrPx said:

That is by far the smallest of its issues... to the point that in comparison.... is a no-issue, sorry....  

Still made me mad.

Though in all seriousness, there were quite a few reasons why I ended up disliking GIMP as much as I did. Whenever I use a new piece of software, I go into it with the expectation that I won't be used to it, and my first few hours with it will be a clumsy experience for me. I've switched back and forth between multiple apps covering various things over the years, and I've long since come to accept that as a standard. Everything has a learning curve.

GIMP didn't just have a learning curve, it seemed to actively fight me every step of the way. Even the simplest of operations ended up becoming an absolute chore to work through. It was so bad that after awhile, I started assuming it was doing it purely out of spite, as if it were aware, and it hated me.

Compared to my switch from PS to AP, which maybe took me a matter of a few hours to fully come to terms with, it was an absolute nightmare.

Haven't really liked it since.

[GDPR-365024]

59 minutes ago, Renzatic said:

Ha! Awesome! Can you mail one?

They're protected by law. 

Here's the best I can do

 

 

1 hour ago, PedroOfOz said:

I'm looking at building a desktop system in the next couple of months just for photographic editing

 

1 hour ago, PedroOfOz said:

it'll be 100% Linux

I should say I'll still be using the Affinity suite on my laptop 

[Dethroc]

I agree that I don't know the costs of portability for the company, but it would not be doing it for free because I would probably need to buy the key again (today it's like this, I paid separate keys for different OSs).

I use 95% of my GNU / Linux time to escape piracy. I use another 5% of my time in Windows (pirate, I'm not proud of it and I intend to get it as soon as I can) just to have my library of games. And I'm hopeful that one day this 5 % is no longer needed, Valve is having great initiatives with Steam OS and the portability of their games to the penguin, but of course, it can not be compared.

I do not understand why GNU / Linux is still so devalued, being a quality OS. I work with web development and I miss a better software than the options that exist. Inkscape is not bad, it is less practical, requires more time, more effort.

Perhaps because there is a decentralization in the development of so many GNU / Linux distros, it can hinder the efficiency of portability. I admit I was a little unhappy in my other comment, but I do not change my point of view. At least, having some help with the installation of Affinity with Wine would already a great help (but the company would not have incomes with this).

I apologize if my previous comment was misunderstood.

[Renzatic]

55 minutes ago, Dethroc said:

Perhaps because there is a decentralization in the development of so many GNU / Linux distros, it can hinder the efficiency of portability.

Not necessarily. Serif could do what everyone else does, and target a single well supported distro to develop from. More often than not, it's either Red Hat or Ubuntu that gets picked as the go-to distro for 3rd parties.

Even that might not be quite so necessary anymore, since Snaps and Flatpaks negate the usual dependency woes that used to be so common between Linux distros.

[SrPx]

11 hours ago, Jay Kyburz said:

I was shocked by @toltec comments and don't understand why the moderators would allow him to troll the forums.

Because he is not trolling, and if it were about banning, a lot of 1-posters with certain writing style would have to be banned.... :p  Is what happens in many communities out there. But tolerance is preferred, here.

Unless we take "trolling" as "posting an opinion which is not exactly my own one"... that'd be a new definition of trolling.

Quote

I didn't come to ask *if* Affinity apps will run on Android / Linux, but *when*.

Oh, well....  

[Snapseed]

11 hours ago, Jay Kyburz said:

Hey All, I'm not a Linux user, but have been planning the jump.

Affinity Designer is one of the applications I will miss, which is how I found myself reading this thread.

I was shocked by @toltec comments and don't understand why the moderators would allow him to troll the forums.

I didn't come to ask *if* Affinity apps will run on Android / Linux, but *when*.

 

 

All my devices have Linux kernels and I've been using desktop Linux for years now for security, stability and maintenance reasons.

That said, I can fully see why Serif aren't making Affinity Photo and Designer available for Linux. They can reach 95% of the desktop PC and laptop market with Windows and macOS alone and, for them, it's just not economically viable for them to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds or more in development costs just to reach that extra few percent. I get that and I accept that.

However, other software developers take a different view and they do cater for the Linux market by offering commercial products, e.g. for RAW editing, photo/image editing, noise reduction and HDR photo enhancing. They are all out there in Linux versions and I make a point of buying such products not only because I want them but also to encourage the development of the market for Linux software and the more that Linux users keep on buying such commercial Linux software, the more that very market will grow and develop.

[eoughu]

There seems to be a lot of people with the impression that Linux users aren't willing to pay for software. Just throwing in my 2 cents that I would buy this if a Linux version was released.

[Patrick Connor]

@eoughu

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums

I don't believe that Serif think that Linux users aren't willing to pay, and as you can see there a number of informed and uninformed views in this thread.

[Snapseed]

On 9/6/2018 at 3:37 PM, eoughu said:

There seems to be a lot of people with the impression that Linux users aren't willing to pay for software. Just throwing in my 2 cents that I would buy this if a Linux version was released.

So would I but regrettably that's not going to happen (although I do suggest Affinity Photo & Designer to Windows users who don't wish to be tied into the expensive and never ending subscription model).

I get the impression that some staff moderators don't like to see competing products being mentioned. However, any Linux-compatible software by definition cannot be competing with the Affinity range because Serif doesn't offer any Linux options.

Therefore, I'll mention stuff that works for me or that I know about, e.g. Corel Aftershot Pro, Pixeluvo, Polarr, Neat Image (noise reduction) and Photomatix HDR for Linux. I also have a soft spot for the free PencilSheep which is available as an Ubuntu snap. I'm also impressed with Gimp 2.10 and the current set of Gimp developers are doing a great job there.

In addition, PhotoLine, PhotoScape, PhotoFiltre and PhotoImpact work well with Wine. When all the free and open source softwares are added in as well, Linux users do have access to a reasonable range of photo/image editor options.

Again, I want to stress that all the softwares mentioned above are not competitors to any Affinity product on the Linux platform precisely because Serif doesn't cater for that platform.

[SrPx]

4 hours ago, Snapseed said:

I get the impression that some staff moderators don't like to see competing products being mentioned. However, any Linux-compatible software by definition cannot be competing with the Affinity range because Serif doesn't offer any Linux options.

Well, I have been here for a while, even if I am not one of the initial members, some come even from the legacy apps times and other forums, but have read their (some company members' opinions or statements, which IMO one doesn't have to necessarily take as the company position about something....) opinions or statements, and I don't have much of a clue even yet about what is their actual POV in that. They leave a lot of freedom and proceed with a lot of respect for each individual. Neither should I know or need to know it (is none of  my business), btw.  But in any other company forum (not an open source project, but a close commercial app forum) out there, the sole mention means a ban in a good number of them, when it's even often prohibited in sticky threads, as an strict rule  ( I can remember one very famous 2D app company's forums,  a paint app, also gentle people,  allowing posting about competitors IF it is very in-context in a thread, only. Even so, seen there warnings or deletions) . Is logical and more than expected at least in commercial, non open source world (and some from OSS, seems to me that have known too few  commercial software communities. I have been plenty of time in both). Is free promo for the competition, if allowed !    So, I see every sense in them not being happy about it ( but again, I don't have much of a clue about it) , even if they, clearly, allow it. But don't expect them to be happy about it, this is quite understandable, salaries depends on the number of sales, instead of potential sales flying somewhere else, etc.

I disagree with linux software not being competition. It depends on the actual application quality, capabilities and user base/market, if there are Windows and Mac ports, which tends to be the trend, lately (for many years, indeed), even if they are free, or more the case so, then they are absolutely competition. Indeed, probably they are not banned not only because the company is extremely tolerant, but also because there's little real competition for something like AD and AP, being realistic. But I can fully understand if they wouldn't feel happy about it. I mention some packages though, but in many ways target a different field and users base. Some times even direct competition, but which clearly is not able to compete at same level than Affinity, so I don't see it like a threat for the  business side of things.

 

4 hours ago, Snapseed said:

In addition, PhotoLine, PhotoScape and PhotoFiltre work well with Wine.

Well....I'd be to think those do actually damage, mentioning them..... ouch.   

Is pure, direct competition. I do believe all them are inferior if seeing the global picture compared to AP, but definitely, to each his/her own, I wouldn't mention them often. It could harm somehow (some have really done very well some specific features, even if overall, AP wins by KO to any of those or to all them put together)

Gimp... is a different matter. They might not like it being mentioned, either, but is almost impossible not to, in a Linux thread. Anyway, funnily, I don't think it harms in anyway. Simply, because the type of users coming to Affinity wont be liking the UI and workflow, I've checked with way too many (many posts in this thread, even from linux users, in this line, indeed!   ). And those like me,  strange, weird people ;D , for which not the UI, neither the workflow would stop us from using it, we are indeed here because Gimp is not enough for certain commercial work needs (specially print related), otherwise, free is an unbeatable price ;). We'd have never get here. And just like in Blender, the Windows AND Mac versions are absolutely functional, long ago are the times when the tablet would be a can of worms. Is basically sth that can't harm seriously the user base here, IMO, which are super going after certain UI standards like those in the main two top high end 2D packages (the 2 main ones before Affinity arrived ) 

For me, Gimp is a fabulous package for the more geek of us, very powerful, but even in its raw capabilities, leaving out the UI/workflow preferences, still AP is quite more complete in matters that are vital, essential for a commercial usage with clients and etc.  Is like if mentioning Blender would harm in a community of maxers (3DS Max). This would make some people there even laugh. Because they don't know deeply Blender, there's so much underrating (or not so much now) as it is about Gimp. But mainly, because those that try it, being majorly (in mass numbers, again, the main thing in this thread) Windows and Mac folks, or even from Linux but too used to ONLY have used Adobe, maybe in the entire life. Older souls we know about waaay weirder and harder UIs in graphic software arcane history, so, is not the type of limitation  (UI, etc) we would be worried about. 

Anyway, IMO the key here is [ EDIT : Bad choice of words. Is my opinion, only, and is probably very inaccurate ] the business side of things. There's no solid study (apart from whatever the number of posts in a forum...  ...ahem....that there'd be a solid chance not to incur in a business stall in that entire branch (as mentioned, that study can only be done by knowing deeply the company internals, as well). There is no disliking in many of us about linux, which has a lot more to like than dislike for those of us who enjoy fiddling with stuff. If anything, would be the fear of diverting even more the company resources, but some of us do like LESS our current OS than Linux. And even so, have zero plan on jumping ship until a lot of stuff changes in Linux for a more professional use (in graphic stuff in the OS, print, an entire ecosystem of apps for graphics (is naive thinking is just about PS/AI or AP/AD) etc. I know very well what is available for Windows and Linux. Less the case for Mac. ).

 

[Patrick Connor]

12 hours ago, Snapseed said:

I get the impression that some staff moderators don't like to see competing products being mentioned

I have not seen that myself. Its interesting how different people reading the same thing perceive them in different ways. (or have I missed the posts you meant) 

[IanSG]

12 hours ago, Snapseed said:

I get the impression that some staff moderators don't like to see competing products being mentioned.

I've never seen that!  Suggestions to use a competing product are commonplace whenever someone points out a shortcoming in an Affinity product - I've seen valid criticism / clarification and I've seen advice on how to use them (!), but nothing to support that impression.

[Snapseed]

8 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

I have not seen that myself. Its interesting how different people reading the same thing perceive them in different ways. (or have I missed the posts you meant) 

@Patrick, I did see it in another of the Linux-related threads of which there are quite a few.

I do know loads of Windows users (and only one Mac user) and I do recommend the Affinity products to them as an option because they are good, capable pieces of software.

While those who operate a software as a paid service model might retain the current crop of professional photographers, etc. those who are on a budget and the next generation of would-be photographers might not want to become permanently hooked up to such a cash cow operation. If it's not being done already, I think there's an opportunity for Serif to look at the educational market in colleges and universities. etc. so that the Serif products are the ones that people first encounter and become used to and all good luck in that respect.

[SrPx]

A bit OT, but... While most people here (or the people who posts, I have no stats...) is all about photography, quite some people is also interested in AP as a tool for general image editing,making graphics (textures, etc) for games, and even illustration.  I don't have a clue on numbers of the real percentages of users for one or other use,  in registered licenses , but outside these forums, I have detected quite some interest in Affinity for a more general image editing usage (without thinking of "replacement", and while even if not planned so (remembering some posts), a lot of people are doing exactly that, replacing PS) and this involves so, so many fields, industrial markets and hobbyists... Photography is a large group (the huge company even did a 'photography plan', for them)  but every other field that touches image editing I believe is/will be very interested in AP. From my fields, like games, illustration -specially for print media, as this is badly covered by competitors-, comic,  image editing and retouch but not oriented to Photography, etc, and other fields I've never been at, like medical, astronomy, real state stuff (not all is rendering), science in general, even certain uses for cloth design, a large etc. I suspect globally all those together form a larger chunk,  at least in the "world". And AP is capable for very varied image editing. Although IMO in these forums it is majorly Photography for AP (but most posts about the brushes, I'd bet is mostly from other fields). AD is obviously another story, and I kind of see a lot more variety in the user base. Both orientations have their advantages, in AP. But yep, the app is called Photo....  .  I should surrender to the obvious, hehe. (wait... or not... Photo...shop....and it has been used for everything, including photography.... ) 

Ehm.... just a random thought triggered by a recent posted sentence, sorry.

[Snapseed]

2 hours ago, SrPx said:

A bit OT, but... While most people here (or the people who posts, I have no stats...) is all about photography, quite some people is also interested in AP as a tool for general image editing,making graphics (textures, etc) for games, and even illustration.  I don't have a clue on numbers of the real percentages of users for one or other use,  in registered licenses , but outside these forums, I have detected quite some interest in Affinity for a more general image editing usage (without thinking of "replacement", and while even if not planned so (remembering some posts), a lot of people are doing exactly that, replacing PS) and this involves so, so many fields, industrial markets and hobbyists... Photography is a large group (the huge company even did a 'photography plan', for them)  but every other field that touches image editing I believe is/will be very interested in AP. From my fields, like games, illustration -specially for print media, as this is badly covered by competitors-, comic,  image editing and retouch but not oriented to Photography, etc, and other fields I've never been at, like medical, astronomy, real state stuff (not all is rendering), science in general, even certain uses for cloth design, a large etc. I suspect globally all those together form a larger chunk,  at least in the "world". And AP is capable for very varied image editing. Although IMO in these forums it is majorly Photography for AP (but most posts about the brushes, I'd bet is mostly from other fields). AD is obviously another story, and I kind of see a lot more variety in the user base. Both orientations have their advantages, in AP. But yep, the app is called Photo....  .  I should surrender to the obvious, hehe. (wait... or not... Photo...shop....and it has been used for everything, including photography.... ) 

Ehm.... just a random thought triggered by a recent posted sentence, sorry.

@SrPx, your very own post reminded me of some the posts I have seen on various different forums from business owners who specialise in photography, on both Windows and macOS, who have moved over to Affinity Photo because they liked the product and did not want to be locked into the ongoing subscription model that did not offer value for money.

[Uncle Mez]

Hello Guys !

this topic is really a good one but to me there is only one thing that really decide or make it possible for Affinity Suite Linux to be developed and that thing is resource management.
As few or most here have noticed Linux distros make better usage of computer resources than Windows or Mac and it has been proven for years now but the only thing with Linux is ... that Open Source concept of Free & Freedom which, if not well managed can kill an entire business model or a great product but on the other hand if mastered, well applied and carefully maintained can make that same product a rock star (check Ubuntu or Redhat success story to list only those); also the fact that linux code is constantly evolving is a must that can help certain addressing certain bug in due or short time (the advantage of a massive community working together to make things better) ... well, there is a lot to say about Affinity Suite for Linux but to me it's all about the business model that should be applied or not and if it help make more money thus avoiding companies like Serif (in this case) to decide against their will to "Kill" Affinity line one day because things where not well analyzed, we need to think twice when asking things, over the years a lot of good softwares came on Linux and simply got killed or stoped to be maintained etc ... even official distros often leave what they claim to be "the killing functionality"; i refer here to the failure of Ubuntu Unity 8 and the brutal decision to move back to Gnome 3 ... Linux EcoSystem can be hard for certain type of softwares.

As a Linux trainer & support, i would bless that move if it happen because Linux is the land where Adobe CS/CC doesn't rule at all; it's the land where the Gimp, Davincy, KDEnlive, Shotwell, and few others are sitted on the throne and having the affinity Suite there will bring back the sunlight for Linux users ... but i'm not blind at all and accept the fact that Linux can also be the cemetery of good products.

Just to share more, Davincy Resolve worked like a charm on my old HP laptop running Linux Fedora/Ubuntu but never passed the splash screen after i decided to switch to Windows 10 build 1803 with latest updates and updated drivers.
So i really believe that even if i load 4000 fonts on a Linux Box with 4GB of Ram and run Affinity Suite for Linux on it (if released one day) it will be much fast and stable than what i have on Mac and Windows but ... that's me thinking out loud.

Also many Linux users tends to not buy softwares or pay for licenses because of the way they understand the Free/Freedom of Open Source, so ... let's think twice and not push this great software suite and the teams behind to what can be it's death even if the same death possibility is hidding a glorious and shiny life.

[myclay]

On 9/8/2018 at 9:38 AM, Patrick Connor said:

I have not seen that myself. Its interesting how different people reading the same thing perceive them in different ways. (or have I missed the posts you meant) 

good to know   let me be audacious while I make some advertisement for an available professional alternative for Linux users:

use Photoshop CC - it works on Fedora.
https://github.com/corbindavenport/creative-cloud-linux

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/install-adobe-photoshop-linux/

It`s understandable thou why Linux users are here and are voicing their wish for the support of Serif products on Linux.

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by myclay
added the makeuseof link which says Adobe CS4, CS6, or CC 2014 work on Linux.

[Trueman]

I do lots of image editing. I switched from Linux to Windows last year so I can use the Affinity products (didn't wanted to pay for the Adobe CC subscription any longer). Now Windows annoyd me more than the Adobe subscription, so I switched back to Linux and use again Adobe CC with Wine...

I would switch to the Affinity product line immediately if they would be available for linux